Aircraft maint issues

[bigjets]

I agree, there is no way this is the most expensive contract in the industry - for a number of reasons. First of all, the slow walking of negotiations going on three years now, has more than saved the company the value for any gains we are bargaining for. Maybe, if Doug made our pay and benefits retroactive for two years - he may have a leg to stand on. The recent raise we got fell short by not bringing the LAA AMTs at the very least, equal to their LUS AMT counterparts on: Holidays, Holiday pay, Sick time accrual, sick time pay, and whatever else we got chumped on. The universal $3K signing bonus is an insult to those of us who endured the last 15 years of working under a BK contract conditions.

Spoken like the chairman of the AMT think tank. Of course you don’t take into account the fact the association was formed then taken to court which delayed us for a year. You obviously didn’t think of the two different phylosophys trying to make one union, with at least 10 different negotiators putting in their 2 cents.

Fortunately you’re able to sit back and talk high finance and what AA can afford to pay.

UAL was 5 years past amendable date when they got their contract and bonus, ours doesn’t become amendable until this September. But you go ahead and keep spouting off, you sound like a genius.

 

[swamt]

View attachment 12762

Or should we say, like a fiddle?

 

[swamt]

I agree, there is no way this is the most expensive contract in the industry - for a number of reasons. First of all, the slow walking of negotiations going on three years now, has more than saved the company the value for any gains we are bargaining for. Maybe, if Doug made our pay and benefits retroactive for two years - he may have a leg to stand on. The recent raise we got fell short by not bringing the LAA AMTs at the very least, equal to their LUS AMT counterparts on: Holidays, Holiday pay, Sick time accrual, sick time pay, and whatever else we got chumped on. The universal $3K signing bonus is an insult to those of us who endured the last 15 years of working under a BK contract conditions.

I also agree. Someone needs to confront him on this. Vortilon, our current offer from SWA is 91 million and this does not account for the missing past 401K and profit sharing we would get back as all that is out of a different account. We are being told that past 401KL and profit sharing will also be retro'd and is not included in the 91 million. Dependant on participation and contributions some can be as high as 10-15K per mechanic on average for each of the past 6 years. At an average of 5K with 2500 it would be low 12 million, up to 37 million more with 15K at 2500. My best guess would put it more like the 120-125 million, but that is only adding in 401K not PS...

 

[1AA]

What a mess. Over two years and no JCBA, lost prefunding match and equity payouts not in sight. Losing unknown amounts of money. The Association gives a new meaning to strength in numbers.

 

[Rogallo]

Or should we say, like a fiddle?

Like a bass fiddle!

 

[Rogallo]

What a mess. Over two years and no JCBA, lost prefunding match and equity payouts not in sight. Losing unknown amounts of money. The Association gives a new meaning to strength in numbers.

HAD ENOUGH YET?

 

[bigjets]

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-...04-23/faa-issues-emergency-ad-cfm56-turbofans

Great video with audio. Listen to the professionalism of these pilots..

 

[bigjets]

Because Doug says the offer is the most expensive in the industry makes it fact? I say BS.

I agree somewhat with most of your comment but I believe Doug wants his cake AND ours. We get a small amount above the DL/UA (but DL will probably go above us the day after ratification)pretty much par on everything else and he gets the head reduction probably pretty quickly. Just wish someone would call him out on that in a Town Hall.

They are playing us AGAIN!

I would say Doug’s info about the numbers is better then anyone going through what they think the numbers should be in their basement.

If you recall GP isn’t disputing the total package numbers just that items in the contract aren’t industry leading, and after watching the union guys in Miami not dispute the overall package, they just kept saying do the right thing without any detail, while Doug offered to take UAL or DAL contracts. Then asked our union guys what they think is not industry leading in the contract, the union guys didn’t give a direct answer.

Remember we do more in house maintenance then any other airline and unfortunately we will likely not have the best of everything to keep those OH jobs at AA.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedree...ance-work-has-risen-report-says/#7ab2bf4226e2

 

[bigjets]

How many of you all know that Eastern Mechanics went on strike over a contract offer that was better then AAs contract at the time?

So they lost everything, then took a job under a contract that was worse then what they were offered, to go to the bottom of the seniority list, and pay scale.

It’s like listening to the AFW mechanics whine/complain about AA, but yet they commute to Texas and live in crash pads. So that tells me they couldn’t find a better company or job in Texas.

 

[1AA]

How many of you all know that Eastern Mechanics went on strike over a contract offer that was better then AAs contract at the time?

So they lost everything, then took a job under a contract that was worse then what they were offered, to go to the bottom of the seniority list, and pay scale.

It’s like listening to the AFW mechanics whine/complain about AA, but yet they commute to Texas and live in crash pads. So that tells me they couldn’t find a better company or job in Texas.

Different times, different bankruptcy rules, Lorenzo had Bush in his pocket. Bush could have set up a PEB but didnt. The IAM was a stronger union back then. They gambled and lost. The rest is history.

 

[Vortilon]

Spoken like the chairman of the AMT think tank. Of course you don’t take into account the fact the association was formed then taken to court which delayed us for a year. You obviously didn’t think of the two different phylosophys trying to make one union, with at least 10 different negotiators putting in their 2 cents.

Fortunately you’re able to sit back and talk high finance and what AA can afford to pay.

UAL was 5 years past amendable date when they got their contract and bonus, ours doesn’t become amendable until this September. But you go ahead and keep spouting off, you sound like a genius.

You can keep spouting off all you want as well. Your arguments must make sense in your head, but did you ever read what you post? Here's a tip, not genius. I'll take the UAL AMT contract plus 3 percent RFN.

BTW, the AFL/CIO inspired abomination known as the Association, who nobody voted for, had more than enough time to get things figured out.

 

[Vortilon]

I would say Doug’s info about the numbers is better then anyone going through what they think the numbers should be in their basement.

If you recall GP isn’t disputing the total package numbers just that items in the contract aren’t industry leading, and after watching the union guys in Miami not dispute the overall package, they just kept saying do the right thing without any detail, while Doug offered to take UAL or DAL contracts. Then asked our union guys what they think is not industry leading in the contract, the union guys didn’t give a direct answer.

Remember we do more in house maintenance then any other airline and unfortunately we will likely not have the best of everything to keep those OH jobs at AA.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedree...ance-work-has-risen-report-says/#7ab2bf4226e2

The TWU has had zero luck in maintaining headcount. Even when they think they have some assurance, when the company wants a headcount reduction - it happens. Line AMTs are tired of accepting substandard pay and benefits to subsidize headcount. There is no write off for charitable contribution - by accepting another POS TWU negotiated contract.

 

[swamt]

What a mess. Over two years and no JCBA, lost prefunding match and equity payouts not in sight. Losing unknown amounts of money. The Association gives a new meaning to strength in numbers.

Different times, different bankruptcy rules, Lorenzo had Bush in his pocket. Bush could have set up a PEB but didnt. The IAM was a stronger union back then. They gambled and lost. The rest is history.

The TWU has had zero luck in maintaining headcount. Even when they think they have some assurance, when the company wants a headcount reduction - it happens. Line AMTs are tired of accepting substandard pay and benefits to subsidize headcount. There is no write off for charitable contribution - by accepting another POS TWU negotiated contract.

Any idea of the number of AMT's that might get cut? How about positions??

 

[bigjets]

You can keep spouting off all you want as well. Your arguments must make sense in your head, but did you ever read what you post? Here's a tip, not genius. I'll take the UAL AMT contract plus 3 percent RFN.

BTW, the AFL/CIO inspired abomination known as the Association, who nobody voted for, had more than enough time to get things figured out.

I think we are both on the same page actually. I would take the UAL plus 3% also. Like you I don't think we should sacrifice pay for jobs, hasn't worked in the pass won't in the future. I think the Association is an abortion with guys trained to be AMTs FSCs or stock clerks running an organization that was formed because bus drivers ordered it formed, regardless of what the members want.

Here's the problem, UAL outsources 51% of their maintenance and we outsource 33% of our maintenance. I'm guessing that would equal thousands of mechanics, you and I would be fine, but OH mechs and junior mechs would not be so good. The NC promised industry leading meaning HW VC shift diff, the company means it as the most expensive contract, but yet the NC has to worry about scope, and nobody on that NC wants to negotiate away THOUSANDS of jobs.

 

[texasreb]

How many of you all know that Eastern Mechanics went on strike over a contract offer that was better then AAs contract at the time?

So they lost everything, then took a job under a contract that was worse then what they were offered, to go to the bottom of the seniority list, and pay scale.

It’s like listening to the AFW mechanics whine/complain about AA, but yet they commute to Texas and live in crash pads. So that tells me they couldn’t find a better company or job in Texas.

Who in their right mind would want to live in Oklahoma?