Aircraft maint issues

[MetalMover]

Ok but you just admitted at least one other area all of that comes from, Deregulation. UAL AMT’s have changed Unions too many times to count now and I don’t think any of that completely solved their problems? Am I wrong?

No you are not wrong. That is the problem with industrial unions. They have to represent many work groups under one umbrella. So you keep the majority happier than the minority. Strength in numbers, right?

As far as complaining what good has that done any of you? You blame the Unions and freakin mostly uneducated Rampers instead of ever looking in the mirror at yourselves. Do you guys have ANY responsibilities for things that happened in the past at all, whatsoever? ANY fault?

I personally have not blamed "uneducated rampers." I merely pointed out that many jobs I once did are now done by your group and the fact that the TWU NEVER considered it outsourcing. I never voted for a contract where I was going to lose work and I never gained a substantial economic return. I am sure many fellow mechanics did not care about those jobs. Probably very senior people. I am one of those people now. And absolutely we are our own worst enemy.
If I tell you that the TWU has mastered the divide and conquer technique not only between mechanics and fleet, but between line and base, you are probably going to tell me I'm wrong and that I can't keep evoking past history. So I won't....

You just saw this huge campaign by “John Samuelsen” (And MANY others) to try to raise awareness for your cause. Will it help at all? Maybe not? But at least people are trying which is way more than people who do nothing but complain all the time ever do.

Yes I see, but way too late I think. And my opinion is the reason you are seeing this campaign like never before is because the outsourcing is going to affect EVERY TWU work group and not just mechanics. Every TWU job is on the table. This would be a major hit to union dues should this occur.

And if sometimes maybe too many times I’m a mean SOB I’m sorry. But the World is going to be a lot harder on all of you than I could ever be. And I am your friend and do give a chit about you all.

I don't think that way of you at all. I have very thick skin. As long as I have been around, I have to be very honest that I am tired of being promised a better future if I voted to save jobs. It has not worked in my entire tenure and it will not work now.
BTW, I have lived through the good times and more so the bad times in this industry. Whatever we get in a TA, however good it might be, there are always going to be those of us who will accept it and be called bad union members because it might cost jobs. The world has changed as this industry has. I have accepted it as I have no choice. I am glad to be more towards the end than the beginning.
My suggestion is take care of those here now and not worry so much about people not hired yet.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and your families as well.

Yes you as well.

 

[WeAAsles]

No you are not wrong. That is the problem with industrial unions. They have to represent many work groups under one umbrella. So you keep the majority happier than the minority. Strength in numbers, right?


I personally have not blamed "uneducated rampers." I merely pointed out that many jobs I once did are now done by your group and the fact that the TWU NEVER considered it outsourcing. I never voted for a contract where I was going to lose work and I never gained a substantial economic return. I am sure many fellow mechanics did not care about those jobs. Probably very senior people. I am one of those people now. And absolutely we are our own worst enemy.
If I tell you that the TWU has mastered the divide and conquer technique not only between mechanics and fleet, but between line and base, you are probably going to tell me I'm wrong and that I can't keep evoking past history. So I won't....


Yes I see, but way too late I think. And my opinion is the reason you are seeing this campaign like never before is because the outsourcing is going to affect EVERY TWU work group and not just mechanics. Every TWU job is on the table. This would be a major hit to union dues should this occur.


I don't think that way of you at all. I have very thick skin. As long as I have been around, I have to be very honest that I am tired of being promised a better future if I voted to save jobs. It has not worked in my entire tenure and it will not work now.
BTW, I have lived through the good times and more so the bad times in this industry. Whatever we get in a TA, however good it might be, there are always going to be those of us who will accept it and be called bad union members because it might cost jobs. The world has changed as this industry has. I have accepted it as I have no choice. I am glad to be more towards the end than the beginning.
My suggestion is take care of those here now and not worry so much about people not hired yet.



Yes you as well.

Metal I like you so I’m not going to argue with you. I’m sure you’re a guy I could drink beer with and have a few laughs at the ridiculous chit that goes on in life with people.

Just one thing. Don’t close out totally on giving “people” a chance. Not everyone who’s in the TWU Union or any Union is a POS who just cares about the dues and how much cash they make.

And BTW from your BTW on down I agree with you 100%. Could have even write it myself. I’m not some kind of Venezuelan Socialist just so you know.

 

[Buck]

First of all you are missing the point. The TWU never thinks of “shifting” work to other TWU work groups as OUTSOURCING. They only think of outsourcing UNLESS they represent those doing the work.
Maybe they will seek an election for the SA employees.

Secondly, you weren’t around in 1983 for the “yellow dog” contract where the union agreed to allow the mechanics to be force fed that contract!

No huge wage increases were gained because deiicing and pushbacks were shifted to fleet

First of all you are missing the point. The TWU never thinks of “shifting” work to other TWU work groups as OUTSOURCING. They only think of outsourcing UNLESS they represent those doing the work.
Maybe they will seek an election for the SA employees.

Secondly, you weren’t around in 1983 for the “yellow dog” contract where the union agreed to allow the mechanics to be force fed that contract!

No huge wage increases were gained because deiicing and pushbacks were shifted to fleet

I was around for that " yellow dog " contract. Another issue was the B-Scale, Mechanics at half pay, but only those that were Non-Employed. The starting wage was $10 and $9 for the Junior Mechanic position.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

I need to make it clear that I do not blame the rank and file fleet service clerks for the actions of the TWU International. Most are concerned about their own careers and wish all others well.

 

[Buck]

Didn’t AirTran have ETOPS flight already or were they just EOW?

If you were an AirTran mechanic you would know this.....

 

[Tom Talbert 1888]

Wow genius, there isn’t a company named AirTran anymore.

 

[Rogallo]

Definition of were

• past tense second-person singular, past tense plural, and past subjunctive

Definition of are

• present tense second-person singular and present tense plural

Figure it out smart guy!

 

[WeAAsles]

So the TWU does not fight for Aircraft Mechanic huh?

“Just how friendly are U.S. skies? Former U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge has been hired to find out.

Ridge, founder of Ridge Global, has inked a deal with Transport Workers Union to conduct a security assessment on American Airline planes that are serviced in hangars overseas.

A Republican who was also the governor of Pennsylvania from 1995 to 2001, Ridge will “evaluate and assess critical repair and maintenance work performed on U.S. passenger aircraft,” his firm said in announcing the contract.

TWU said it has specifically requested that Ridge focus on whether the “off-shoring” of such work to foreign countries is a danger to the American public.”


https://www.google.com/amp/www.nyda...robe-plane-repairs-overseas-article-1.3688696

 

[Vortilon]

And the majority of the work lost you or your coworkers voted away.

Well now, that is a pretty simplistic explanation of how the AMTs lost the work. If it's one thing the TWU was really good at over the years, it was divide and conquer the membership during contract votes. The TWU would target certain segments of the membership for preferential treatment to pass a contract. As an example, they often target people near retirement. Offer a carrot to the outgoing members who were in the TWU International's target majority group in exchange for giving away de icing, pushbacks, or whatever. Then when the AMTs who remained took issue with the loss, they would get the obligatory "you voted for it" statement. When; in actuality, none of the remaining AMTs had voted for it. It's actually pretty slick what the TWU, and other industrial unions did to the AMT profession along with the help of their appointed lackeys at the NMB to ensure AMTs are saddled with having to include non AMTs in their title group. Water down the AMT ranks with all kinds of non A&P types for vote dilution. These non A&P types are usually offered something to gain that goes against the wishes of the A&Ps - this allows the International to make the claim of "you guys voted it in"! I have seen it many times. My resentment for the TWU, IAM, and other all inclusive unions for this ongoing fleecing of AMTs will never change.

 

[MetalMover]

So the TWU does not fight for Aircraft Mechanic huh?

“Just how friendly are U.S. skies? Former U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge has been hired to find out.

Ridge, founder of Ridge Global, has inked a deal with Transport Workers Union to conduct a security assessment on American Airline planes that are serviced in hangars overseas.

A Republican who was also the governor of Pennsylvania from 1995 to 2001, Ridge will “evaluate and assess critical repair and maintenance work performed on U.S. passenger aircraft,” his firm said in announcing the contract.

TWU said it has specifically requested that Ridge focus on whether the “off-shoring” of such work to foreign countries is a danger to the American public.”


https://www.google.com/amp/www.nyda...robe-plane-repairs-overseas-article-1.3688696

Why now, WeAAsles? AA has been sending planes overseas for years for heavy maintenance. So why now? Why didn’t they take his step when it first started? Why didn’t they hire Ridge years ago?

Do you think that maybe, just maybe, it is in the realm of possibilities that the TWU is worrying about the loss of more union dues due to posssible increase in outsourcing?

Is the TWU not concerned with sending aircraft to Timco or Haecon Americas because they are US contractors?
Which is more of a concern for the TWU? Security in overseas facilities or job loss?

 

[WeAAsles]

Why now, WeAAsles? AA has been sending planes overseas for years for heavy maintenance. So why now? Why didn’t they take his step when it first started? Why didn’t they hire Ridge years ago?

Do you think that maybe, just maybe, it is in the realm of possibilities that the TWU is worrying about the loss of more union dues due to posssible increase in outsourcing?

Is the TWU not concerned with sending aircraft to Timco or Haecon Americas because they are US contractors?
Which is more of a concern for the TWU? Security in overseas facilities or job loss?

Metal put in a Google search. John Samuelsen Transport Workers Union and start reading the man’s stories.

Again you continue to write the three letters “TWU” as if it’s some kind of living breathing Human entity. “TWU” is all sorts of different people.

From all I’ve read on the guy your new International President is an old school Union radical anarchist. Again read some of the stories about the guy and THEN make up your mind. There’s tons of them.

And your dues question. No. I don’t think they give a rats ass about that honestly. They just filed with the NMB to represent 5000 JetBlue Flight Attendants and overall they represent far more FA’s at SWA alone than they do AMT’s. The TWU as an entity is in growth mode and with the Economy currently they’ve signed off on a whole bunch of contracts including gains for Bus and Rail Workers in NYC recently.

BTW if some “guy” who goes by the nickname MetalMover on Airline Forums ran and won TWU International President I’d give him a chance.

I’m not going to say F him. He’s not an FSC. What does he know about me or mine. I won’t smack your hand or spit on you if you said you want to represent me.

 

[WeAAsles]

Well now, that is a pretty simplistic explanation of how the AMTs lost the work. If it's one thing the TWU was really good at over the years, it was divide and conquer the membership during contract votes. The TWU would target certain segments of the membership for preferential treatment to pass a contract. As an example, they often target people near retirement. Offer a carrot to the outgoing members who were in the TWU International's target majority group in exchange for giving away de icing, pushbacks, or whatever. Then when the AMTs who remained took issue with the loss, they would get the obligatory "you voted for it" statement. When; in actuality, none of the remaining AMTs had voted for it. It's actually pretty slick what the TWU, and other industrial unions did to the AMT profession along with the help of their appointed lackeys at the NMB to ensure AMTs are saddled with having to include non AMTs in their title group. Water down the AMT ranks with all kinds of non A&P types for vote dilution. These non A&P types are usually offered something to gain that goes against the wishes of the A&Ps - this allows the International to make the claim of "you guys voted it in"! I have seen it many times. My resentment for the TWU, IAM, and other all inclusive unions for this ongoing fleecing of AMTs will never change.

You’re now at a TOS Base of around $105,000 not counting your benefits.

I’m not whacking you here with this question Vort but seriously you feel like you’re currently being watered down?

Now yes the SWA AMT did earn more in pay and benefits than you did for over a decade. He DID though (I know why already ok) have far less jobs though (You don’t care about those) and his Company never had a year they weren’t profitable. So that again CAN’T be ignored or denied even if posters here want it to be.

Currently (No it might not last) you make in wages $4.00 per hour more than the SWA AMT. And Management has mentioned that you have fallen behind and they owe you more.

BTW it’s the NMB (Whether you like it or not) that has all those Watering Down (Calling them that is why you can’t organize them) Groups in your Class and Craft. If you were ever to leave to ANY other Union you have to take them with you.

And if you tell me that the little TWU conspired with the Federal Government to stick you with all those lowly non AMT Mechanics I am going to have to be obnoxious and laugh at you.

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW Vort I’d LOVE to take every one of those other Title Group flakes, weirdos and rejects off your hands and get em in with the FSC Groups so you’re finally free to spread your wings and fly bro. And I know tons of Title 2 that would LOVE to come along with us but they’re STUCK with you also.

 

[WeAAsles]

 

[Deleted member 14439]

View attachment 12271

Now this is what I expect from my paid representation. Advocate and show that you do give a hoot about our jobs. Well done TWU.