Aircraft maint issues

[WeAAsles]

This is how it works aa offers so much money for the twu . The twu decides how to distribute it. Like in 03 mechanics took 17 percent money pay cut fleet took a 16 percent. Also maintenance we lost in sick time then fleet. In 03 the first two days of sick each time was half a days pay latter it was changed to the first day, and in 2012 bk maintenance lost a week of vacation but stores was given a week . So at swa AMFA is offered so much money there’s no dividing since maitance is the ones being represented the same at ua.

Wrong. But hey I do want to thank you for playing and I can go about trying to explain it to you one more time like I have many times already. But hey you don’t believe me anyway cause I’m a Bag Smasher who’s spent his entire career riding your coatatails and ripping you off.

Hey just thought of another question? (You might like this one)

Hey for the year I’m finishing up gross pretty much 40 per week at $65,000. I see in your payscale it puts you at about $105,000.

Hey if I’m ripping you off then how in the hell did I let you get a whole $40,000 per year past me?

Hey you got to admit if I’m ripping you off I REALLY suck at it don’t I?

Hey hey I’m going to need to take some of this back from you with the JCBA you do understand. Can’t have you professional AMT’s thinking too highly of yourselves now.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

This is how it works aa offers so much money for the twu . The twu decides how to distribute it. Like in 03 mechanics took 17 percent money pay cut fleet took a 16 percent. Also maintenance we lost in sick time then fleet. In 03 the first two days of sick each time was half a days pay latter it was changed to the first day, and in 2012 bk maintenance lost a week of vacation but stores was given a week . So at swa AMFA is offered so much money there’s no dividing since maitance is the ones being represented the same at ua.

International rep actually admitted it to me one day. They negotiate for a couple of months on locking bulletin boards and crap like that and then when it gets to financial AA tells them how much money they are going to give to the TWU and that is the extent of negotiating pay raises. Then it gets divided up by the TWU ATD which is all FSC. Look at our history and we NEVER got what the other airlines AMTs got. This is because we had to pay for jobs. This resulted in less money going to the AMT pot and more for fleet and stores. When it was time for give backs of course we lost much more than Fleet and Stores. We still don't get sick pay of course or the longevity that Fleet and Stores never lost. Fleet controls the ATD. Remember in 85 when they decided to take two lump sum payments? That was Fleet's idea so instead of a % raise we got two $500 checks before taxes. Never dawned on these yahoos that without a % raise it put us further behind everyone else but they were happy because everyone got the same "Raise". Also when it was time for the givebacks AA gave TWU a figure and they decided AMTs would pay for half and fleet and stores would split the other half. That is how we lost 17.5% while they lost 15% while we also lost sick pay. In 2010 Fleet agreed to give back another week of vacation. In 2012 TWU gave our week away but somehow Stores kept theirs. So us giving up a week paid for Store's raise so they didn't have to give up anything. All you have to do is ask a TWU rep what Stores gave up in 2012. They can't answer you because Stores gave NOTHING up to fund their raise. All I got was "They're a small group.". So the truth does hurt Fleet and Stores people as they refuse to admit that we not only took much more concessions than they did, but there was no way the Fleet people running the union were going to allow us to keep a 6th week of vacation after Fleet voted yes on the TA in 2010. There aren't enough Stores to soak so they leave them alone. Yeah we funded the Stores raise and they'll make sure everyone gets the same % raise no matter how far that puts us behind AMTs in the industry. Watch and see.

 

[WeAAsles]

International rep actually admitted it to me one day. They negotiate for a couple of months on locking bulletin boards and crap like that and then when it gets to financial AA tells them how much money they are going to give to the TWU and that is the extent of negotiating pay raises. Then it gets divided up by the TWU ATD which is all FSC. Look at our history and we NEVER got what the other airlines AMTs got. This is because we had to pay for jobs. This resulted in less money going to the AMT pot and more for fleet and stores. When it was time for give backs of course we lost much more than Fleet and Stores. We still don't get sick pay of course or the longevity that Fleet and Stores never lost. Fleet controls the ATD. Remember in 85 when they decided to take two lump sum payments? That was Fleet's idea so instead of a % raise we got two $500 checks before taxes. Never dawned on these yahoos that without a % raise it put us further behind everyone else but they were happy because everyone got the same "Raise". Also when it was time for the givebacks AA gave TWU a figure and they decided AMTs would pay for half and fleet and stores would split the other half. That is how we lost 17.5% while they lost 15% while we also lost sick pay. In 2010 Fleet agreed to give back another week of vacation. In 2012 TWU gave our week away but somehow Stores kept theirs. So us giving up a week paid for Store's raise so they didn't have to give up anything. All you have to do is ask a TWU rep what Stores gave up in 2012. They can't answer you because Stores gave NOTHING up to fund their raise. All I got was "They're a small group.". So the truth does hurt Fleet and Stores people as they refuse to admit that we not only took much more concessions than they did, but there was no way the Fleet people running the union were going to allow us to keep a 6th week of vacation after Fleet voted yes on the TA in 2010. There aren't enough Stores to soak so they leave them alone. Yeah we funded the Stores raise and they'll make sure everyone gets the same % raise no matter how far that puts us behind AMTs in the industry. Watch and see.

Well after all the years of you believing it who am I to bother trying to change your mind or put it together for you. No kool aid drinkers need tell you anything.

They’ve always been out to get you and they’ve always been able to do it and their gonna do it again.

Happy Holidays to you and your family old dude.

 

[WeAAsles]

Hear something and repeat it enough times and there’s no one who would be able to convince you otherwise.

Do you know Lemmings commit voluntary suicide by throwing themselves off cliffs to drown?

In reality they don’t. But we still have a preconceived notion for the term “Lemmings” don’t we.

 

[Buck]

who gives a crap? That is a stupid statistic used by union heads stuck in 1947.

Southwest being a single fleet short haul, non-ETOPS, carrier shouldn't have the number of mechanics per aircraft as AA, DL or UA. Even if they did every single thing in house and AA, DL, UA did everything in house the numbers will be higher at AA, DL, UA. Thats comparing apples to dog crap.

Example, at DL, right now we have 7 engine shops (CFM56, CF34, CF6, JT8D-219, PW2000, PW4000, BR714) and are gearing up for the Trent XWB and Trent 1000/7000. On top of that if all the engines came in-house, the CFM56-5As would be done by the CFM56 shop. The CF6-80E1s would be handled by the CF6 shop. The PW4168s would be done by the PW4000 shop. The only new shops would be the V2500, GE90 and Trent 800.
The volume of work going the existing shops would increase (marginally for the PW4000 and CF6s) but at the end of the day WN would still only have one engine shop, the CFM56. The volume just wouldn't be there to have all of those jobs (plus all the back shop jobs that come with all those engines). Why would you expect a carrier with one fleet, one engine type to carriers that have 5-8 fleet types and 8-12 engines?

Scope should be defined by money spent on the maintenance. period.
mechanics per tail is a good way to get the company to try to outsource you even faster.

Because I was speaking of compensation of the employee which is as close as one could expect.The Mechanics per aircraft is a valid number as Robert Isom spoke in those terms at the ORD last summer. AA/TWU counts it's membership as if everyone is a technician. Your example brings in costs that all airlines must use, it is part of the overhead. Having one shop or seven makes no difference, as the volume of work must be considered. You are not wrong, but again I was asking for compensation. If the Association and company decide to ensure A&P tickets are required for the mechanic position, there will be employee movement.

 

[swamt]

You have to understand that using AMTs per aircraft is the way Fleet Service can try to justify when the TWU divides the pie the AMTs get a smaller piece and Fleet gets a bigger piece. Money for jobs. Everyone knows the company throws the money out there and the TWU gets to divide it up. International officers have admitted that. If Fleet can tell us we need to take less that means they get more. That is how it works at AA in the TWU. If anyone (Especially from fleet service) tells you it doesn't work that way they are lying.

That's because you guys have a "fleet" union.

 

[swamt]

International rep actually admitted it to me one day. They negotiate for a couple of months on locking bulletin boards and crap like that and then when it gets to financial AA tells them how much money they are going to give to the TWU and that is the extent of negotiating pay raises. Then it gets divided up by the TWU ATD which is all FSC. Look at our history and we NEVER got what the other airlines AMTs got. This is because we had to pay for jobs. This resulted in less money going to the AMT pot and more for fleet and stores. When it was time for give backs of course we lost much more than Fleet and Stores. We still don't get sick pay of course or the longevity that Fleet and Stores never lost. Fleet controls the ATD. Remember in 85 when they decided to take two lump sum payments? That was Fleet's idea so instead of a % raise we got two $500 checks before taxes. Never dawned on these yahoos that without a % raise it put us further behind everyone else but they were happy because everyone got the same "Raise". Also when it was time for the givebacks AA gave TWU a figure and they decided AMTs would pay for half and fleet and stores would split the other half. That is how we lost 17.5% while they lost 15% while we also lost sick pay. In 2010 Fleet agreed to give back another week of vacation. In 2012 TWU gave our week away but somehow Stores kept theirs. So us giving up a week paid for Store's raise so they didn't have to give up anything. All you have to do is ask a TWU rep what Stores gave up in 2012. They can't answer you because Stores gave NOTHING up to fund their raise. All I got was "They're a small group.". So the truth does hurt Fleet and Stores people as they refuse to admit that we not only took much more concessions than they did, but there was no way the Fleet people running the union were going to allow us to keep a 6th week of vacation after Fleet voted yes on the TA in 2010. There aren't enough Stores to soak so they leave them alone. Yeah we funded the Stores raise and they'll make sure everyone gets the same % raise no matter how far that puts us behind AMTs in the industry. Watch and see.

You are 100% correct. It's been happening for decades. The company "TELLS" the TWU how money they have in the pool to divide. It is never nego. or produced by the union to give to the members, that is fact and I have been saying it for some time now. A perfect example will be when this asso. allows the company to get away with D+3% instead of D+7% as promised.
To sum it all up, all you state above is because you guys have a "FLEET" union and not a mechanics union, simple as that. The mechanics are put at the bottom of the "priority" list of all the groups in this BS asso. forced down the throats of all the members. Hate being so blunt, but it's 100% true. You guys really do need to rid yourselves of this asso. and get a mechanics union in there.

Well after all the years of you believing it who am I to bother trying to change your mind or put it together for you. No kool aid drinkers need tell you anything.

They’ve always been out to get you and they’ve always been able to do it and their gonna do it again.

Happy Holidays to you and your family old dude.

Because you cannot change his mind because you know he is 100% correct. It's a "FLEET" union period.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

You are 100% correct. It's been happening for decades. The company "TELLS" the TWU how money they have in the pool to divide. It is never nego. or produced by the union to give to the members, that is fact and I have been saying it for some time now. A perfect example will be when this asso. allows the company to get away with D+3% instead of D+7% as promised.
To sum it all up, all you state above is because you guys have a "FLEET" union and not a mechanics union, simple as that. The mechanics are put at the bottom of the "priority" list of all the groups in this BS asso. forced down the throats of all the members. Hate being so blunt, but it's 100% true. You guys really do need to rid yourselves of this asso. and get a mechanics union in there.



Because you cannot change his mind because you know he is 100% correct. It's a "FLEET" union period.

I think it's worse than that. The mechanics have NO REPRESENTATION at all. How many times have you seen the FSC here tell us we have more AMTs per aircraft than anyone else? This is to justify AMTs being paid less for more jobs. If we get less guess who gets more? The pie gets cut into three pieces and when the AMT piece gets smaller the others get bigger. That is why AMTs at AA have the worst benefits in the industry and FSC and Stores have things like longevity pay, full pay for sick time and Stores has one week more vacation than we do to boot. We have no AMTs on the ATD staff and so Fleet runs the show and they make sure they get theirs. I've seen it for 32 plus years and it is not going to change. We all get the same % raises but when it comes time for concessions AMTs get to give lots more. You can't change math even though a TWU VP told me if AMTs lost 17.5% and Fleet and Stores lost 15% then we all lost the same. Now if we all made the same money (Which is TWU's agenda) then since AMTs lose an extra 2.5% then we lose more but take into account we have a higher base pay and then you see we lose even more. Then we lost sick pay on top of that and longevity too. Fleet and Stores never lost these and still have them today. Stores even gets skill pay now too. We tried to get away from them and the TWU worked with AA to keep us from getting away. Then they hosed us even more. They hate us but they won't let us go because they won't be able to put more money in their pile by taking out of ours. I honestly wonder what would have happened to Fleet had we actually got away from them years ago. They might even be better off since they wouldn't be spending all that time figuring out ways to screw AMTs. Money for jobs. Never any figures on how many FSC per aircraft though. But I do not blame the rank and file and I only blame the international. Guys like AANOTOK are standup guys and will fight side by side with AMTs. Others will belittle us on blogs and try to sell the less money for jobs and deny they make more if we take less. Thankfully these guys are the minority and AANOTOK is one of the majority.

 

[WeAAsles]

I think it's worse than that. The mechanics have NO REPRESENTATION at all. How many times have you seen the FSC here tell us we have more AMTs per aircraft than anyone else? This is to justify AMTs being paid less for more jobs. If we get less guess who gets more? The pie gets cut into three pieces and when the AMT piece gets smaller the others get bigger. That is why AMTs at AA have the worst benefits in the industry and FSC and Stores have things like longevity pay, full pay for sick time and Stores has one week more vacation than we do to boot. We have no AMTs on the ATD staff and so Fleet runs the show and they make sure they get theirs. I've seen it for 32 plus years and it is not going to change. We all get the same % raises but when it comes time for concessions AMTs get to give lots more. You can't change math even though a TWU VP told me if AMTs lost 17.5% and Fleet and Stores lost 15% then we all lost the same. Now if we all made the same money (Which is TWU's agenda) then since AMTs lose an extra 2.5% then we lose more but take into account we have a higher base pay and then you see we lose even more. Then we lost sick pay on top of that and longevity too. Fleet and Stores never lost these and still have them today. Stores even gets skill pay now too. We tried to get away from them and the TWU worked with AA to keep us from getting away. Then they hosed us even more. They hate us but they won't let us go because they won't be able to put more money in their pile by taking out of ours. I honestly wonder what would have happened to Fleet had we actually got away from them years ago. They might even be better off since they wouldn't be spending all that time figuring out ways to screw AMTs. Money for jobs. Never any figures on how many FSC per aircraft though. But I do not blame the rank and file and I only blame the international. Guys like AANOTOK are standup guys and will fight side by side with AMTs. Others will belittle us on blogs and try to sell the less money for jobs and deny they make more if we take less. Thankfully these guys are the minority and AANOTOK is one of the majority.

Before the huge raises last year this is what existed.

Fleet topped out in 9 years
AMT topped out in 5 years

That 4 year difference is an awful lot of money old guy.

Oh and currently you make $40,000 (FORTY THOUSAND!!!!!!!) more per year BASE TOS than I do.

Now again if somehow our lowly little unedumacated Baggage Monkey Group is ripping you off??!!!!???? Well how in the WORLD do you account for the oversight that WE let you get away with all that dough?

Like I said the other day. If we’re ripping you off somehow we REALLY SUCK at our jobs man.

 

[WeAAsles]

Hey Old Guy BTW Gary Peterson was just elevated to the ATD staff.

Last time I looked I think he just might be an Aircraft Mechanic?

Do you think?

 

[SkydrolJunkie]

Hey, what's the 3 letter code for Santiago?

 

[swamt]

Hey Old Guy BTW Gary Peterson was just elevated to the ATD staff.

Last time I looked I think he just might be an Aircraft Mechanic?

Do you think?

Key word here is just, "just", "JUST" elevated. Bout dam time huh??? Only took 30 years...

 

[WeAAsles]

Key word here is just, "just", "JUST" elevated. Bout dam time huh??? Only took 30 years...

Um. I’m assuming you’re implying that President Peterson is the first AMT to go to the International?

WRONG!!!!!!

Bobby Gless (AMFA lover)
Donald Videtech

Besides or before them I have no clue? I only came in in 1995.

 

[Buck]

Key word here is just, "just", "JUST" elevated. Bout dam time huh??? Only took 30 years...

SCL

 

[Buck]

who gives a crap? That is a stupid statistic used by union heads stuck in 1947.

Southwest being a single fleet short haul, non-ETOPS, carrier shouldn't have the number of mechanics per aircraft as AA, DL or UA. Even if they did every single thing in house and AA, DL, UA did everything in house the numbers will be higher at AA, DL, UA. Thats comparing apples to dog crap.

Example, at DL, right now we have 7 engine shops (CFM56, CF34, CF6, JT8D-219, PW2000, PW4000, BR714) and are gearing up for the Trent XWB and Trent 1000/7000. On top of that if all the engines came in-house, the CFM56-5As would be done by the CFM56 shop. The CF6-80E1s would be handled by the CF6 shop. The PW4168s would be done by the PW4000 shop. The only new shops would be the V2500, GE90 and Trent 800.
The volume of work going the existing shops would increase (marginally for the PW4000 and CF6s) but at the end of the day WN would still only have one engine shop, the CFM56. The volume just wouldn't be there to have all of those jobs (plus all the back shop jobs that come with all those engines). Why would you expect a carrier with one fleet, one engine type to carriers that have 5-8 fleet types and 8-12 engines?

Scope should be defined by money spent on the maintenance. period.
mechanics per tail is a good way to get the company to try to outsource you even faster.

who gives a crap? That is a stupid statistic used by union heads stuck in 1947.

Southwest being a single fleet short haul, non-ETOPS, carrier shouldn't have the number of mechanics per aircraft as AA, DL or UA. Even if they did every single thing in house and AA, DL, UA did everything in house the numbers will be higher at AA, DL, UA. Thats comparing apples to dog crap.

Example, at DL, right now we have 7 engine shops (CFM56, CF34, CF6, JT8D-219, PW2000, PW4000, BR714) and are gearing up for the Trent XWB and Trent 1000/7000. On top of that if all the engines came in-house, the CFM56-5As would be done by the CFM56 shop. The CF6-80E1s would be handled by the CF6 shop. The PW4168s would be done by the PW4000 shop. The only new shops would be the V2500, GE90 and Trent 800.
The volume of work going the existing shops would increase (marginally for the PW4000 and CF6s) but at the end of the day WN would still only have one engine shop, the CFM56. The volume just wouldn't be there to have all of those jobs (plus all the back shop jobs that come with all those engines). Why would you expect a carrier with one fleet, one engine type to carriers that have 5-8 fleet types and 8-12 engines?

Scope should be defined by money spent on the maintenance. period.
mechanics per tail is a good way to get the company to try to outsource you even faster.

There are a lot of should have's, AA in my 30+ years has always created a fund for the TWU to give out and they own the union. Could you explain that? Labor is the largest part of maintenance.