that is a very interesting point!
what is the maximum uniform size the jumpseat will accommodate based on the length of the seatbelt?
an excellent question that I do not have an answer or even know!
AFA upset that + sizes can't wear red dress..
- Thread starter BABABOOY
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what is the maximum uniform size the jumpseat will accommodate based on the length of the seatbelt?
an excellent question that I do not have an answer or even know!
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #92
I actually agree with you. I do believe the end result is that they will discontinue the
red dress if Delta looses the grievence.
Also Kev, You stated several times that Delta "Leaked" this information.. If they did so what?
What is wrong with full disclosure? I can only imagine if tables were turned, what the
reaction would be. As I see it on this board. The Union supporters, defend, no matter what
they do. On the other hand, I support Delta but also speak up when they are doing something
that I don't think is fair. Fair play.
I simply can't understand why the AFA chose now to fight this. Why not wait until after the
vote? This is only going to divide. Maybe Delta saw this and chose to release the information.
If so, remember , there would be nothing to release if AFA didn't bring this subject up at this time.
Now that Delta has a taste of the AFA's pettiness, look for them to further find examples of
just how unfocused and petty they are. Who can blame them. The AFA does a good job pointing at Delta's faults right?
LukeAisleWalker
Veteran
- Sep 29, 2007
- 715
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Here's the problem, as I see it.
All kinds of people are jumping to all kinds of conclusions without having all the facts.
For instance, not being a union member, I do not know the timeline or requirements of a grievance. BB, you are saying that AFA should either not have included the red dress in their grievance or waited until after the vote to file the grievance. Maybe they are bound by the contract and it is their resonsibility to file a complaint/grievance in a timely manner. Anyone out there reading this know? Do you know BB? How many complaints are necessary to include something in a grievance? Did the red dress portion of the grievance come about because NW f/a's that CAN FIT into their jumpseats w/out the aid of an extension, are not able to fit into a size 18? AGAIN, if that is the case the grievance has merit. It would be discrimination pure and simple. Why? Because the size/wt standard is that you fit into the j/s restraints WITHOUT the aid of an extension. Any other reason to not offer that uniform option is purely a matter of opinion (Big Red Tomatoe comments, etc..) and has no bearing on the job requirements.
Now, if AFA just decided, based on the fact that not every uniform option was offered in every size, to file the grievance, then I think they may have "jumped the gun." They may have forgotten that the navy pieces are also ordered by ground personnel (public contact) and they have no safety/lap belt/size reqm't. In that case, someone at AFA did not do their homework, think all this through before including it in the grievance and have either shown their penchant for "petty" fights or walked into a trap (however you may want to look at it.) If this is the case, then my suggestion is that they definitely need to maybe take some dues money and hire a Public Relations firm to help them present a more steadied, calm, rational image. But again, that is a suggestion I have based on a "what-if". Until I have the answers to all the above questions, I do not feel it is my place to judge. I simply and honestly don't have all the facts.
All kinds of people are jumping to all kinds of conclusions without having all the facts.
For instance, not being a union member, I do not know the timeline or requirements of a grievance. BB, you are saying that AFA should either not have included the red dress in their grievance or waited until after the vote to file the grievance. Maybe they are bound by the contract and it is their resonsibility to file a complaint/grievance in a timely manner. Anyone out there reading this know? Do you know BB? How many complaints are necessary to include something in a grievance? Did the red dress portion of the grievance come about because NW f/a's that CAN FIT into their jumpseats w/out the aid of an extension, are not able to fit into a size 18? AGAIN, if that is the case the grievance has merit. It would be discrimination pure and simple. Why? Because the size/wt standard is that you fit into the j/s restraints WITHOUT the aid of an extension. Any other reason to not offer that uniform option is purely a matter of opinion (Big Red Tomatoe comments, etc..) and has no bearing on the job requirements.
Now, if AFA just decided, based on the fact that not every uniform option was offered in every size, to file the grievance, then I think they may have "jumped the gun." They may have forgotten that the navy pieces are also ordered by ground personnel (public contact) and they have no safety/lap belt/size reqm't. In that case, someone at AFA did not do their homework, think all this through before including it in the grievance and have either shown their penchant for "petty" fights or walked into a trap (however you may want to look at it.) If this is the case, then my suggestion is that they definitely need to maybe take some dues money and hire a Public Relations firm to help them present a more steadied, calm, rational image. But again, that is a suggestion I have based on a "what-if". Until I have the answers to all the above questions, I do not feel it is my place to judge. I simply and honestly don't have all the facts.
Kev3188
Veteran
I never said specifically that DL did it. Please don't put words in my mouth.
What I said was that you all should be asking yourselves who leaked this to the press, and why?
whatkindoffreshhell
Veteran
Pictures. We need pictures in this thread.
And if a red dress makes you feel better about yourself then wear it!
If it doesn't then don't.
And if a red dress makes you feel better about yourself then wear it!
If it doesn't then don't.
LukeAisleWalker
Veteran
- Sep 29, 2007
- 715
- 2
Kev--
If I am not mistaken, Kelly Yamunouchi (sp?), the Atlanta Journal Constitution reporter assigned to the Delta "beat" ,first broke the story. As a reporter for a major newspaper, I know she makes sure she is well-connected to all Delta business including the AFA drive. It is highly possible she subscribes to or is forwarded the NWAAFA "Hotline" and other communication materials. There are also the World Class Delta FA (pro AFA) and No Way AFA Facebook discussion groups which she may be a member of...lots of ways to get the info. I don't think it was something so private that it was "leaked."
Kev3188
Veteran
Luke--
Anything's possible. I just want people to look at things with a critical (as in critically thinking) eye.
Anything's possible. I just want people to look at things with a critical (as in critically thinking) eye.
if an individual was 6'3" tall applied to a regional airline, as a Flight Attendant. the aircraft cabins have a specific height limit under 6'2" and would not accommodate their height, would that be discrimination or a safety issue? the individual may actually be able to do the job.. but the aircraft dimensions simply prevent them from doing the job safely.
that would be a great injustice!
that dress almost has a life of its own!
I have never seen a reaction by people.. over one uniform piece like this ever!
- Thread Starter
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- #100
I believe the reaction is towards a bigger "preceived" problem and the
red dress just symbolizes it.
I guess I should have clarified the reaction comment!
I wasn't referring to a problem, what I mean is how people react to that dress regarding.. everyday people, passengers, customers just well.. mankind!
I have literally witnessed people come up to a Flight Attendant wearing that dress and saying..
"is that the dress?!" ... !OMG! ... "its the dress!"
..."it is that dress!!"
...like the Flight Attendant is a celebrity or something... never mind how every single person in the airport is fixated on the Flight Attendant wearing it.. just walking down the concourse.
I have just never seen such sensational excitement over something like this in all my life!
any idea to even think about discontinuing it would be just... well, wrong on every level!
LukeAisleWalker
Veteran
- Sep 29, 2007
- 715
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And all the while, unemployment is at its highest in years and we still have 45 million people without health insurance. BTW, retire at NW? $180/mo for health insurance. Retire at DL? $582/mo for health insurance.
Change the rules of the road for the SS offset in the middle of the game? No problem....well, actually yes..one of our own DL f/a's who spent years toiling on this has finally filed a class action lawsuit. But no one seems to care the work she's put in; no one seems to care period...it's all Red Dress coverage all day long. Many of these f/a's commenting on websites probably don't even know the difference between a defined pension plan and their 401K plan. Forty and Fifty-Somethings more concerned about how the larger gals are perceived sashaying down the concourse in a red dress. Amazing.
Also, if NW AFA didn't file the grievances, I can hear the NoWayAFA lemmings now..."Did you hear?? My friend's friend at NW said they've had complaints about the uniform and wanted grievances filed but NW AFA wouldn't file them!! See..that union is just a waste of $43 bucks a month! NO WAY AFA!!!"
Talk about spin......
Kev3188
Veteran
Luke--
Great post! This is EXACTLY what I have been trying to convey. All the good work/possible benefits of AFA are shoved to the back burner while something like this takes the stage. Perfect diversion tactic...
Great post! This is EXACTLY what I have been trying to convey. All the good work/possible benefits of AFA are shoved to the back burner while something like this takes the stage. Perfect diversion tactic...
LukeAisleWalker
Veteran
- Sep 29, 2007
- 715
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Not only that, Kev. But the total lack of empathy from people who claim to be in the "customer care" industry is amazing too. One frequent poster on NoWayAFA changed her profile picture (for a short while) to one where it appears she and some of her pals are holding up a huge red tent made to look like a dress and laughing all the while. There is another that says something like "Stop at 18..Keep the Red Dress Chic!" I saw someone post with that saying as his profile pic and from his commentary (not very kind to some of the NW f/a's) appeared to be teaching the IQ training. Lovely.
Listen, I keep myself in shape..workout 4 to 5 times a week, take pride in the uniform, like it when others look good in the uniform, don't think a plus-sized woman would look good in the red dress, think people should try to stay healthy...but the extremes that people will go to further their ideology (that unions are no good) should cause them to take pause and reevaluate...in my opinion.
while I certainly agree you brought up some very valid points, I fail to see what that has to do with my post being quoted and the dress.
I only assume its a good idea to vent from time to time or just have an outlet to discuss regardless of the topic..
(just because a particular topic is being discussed does not necessarily mean every issue is put on the back burner and forgotten or it is not important)
I think people can discuss issues lighthearted to very serious in nature and still understand the importance of each issue separately.
(just because the dress is being discussed doesnt mean people do not care about unemployment, ext..)
the only point I will address in your post was...
that implies that "many" Flight Attendants cannot or do not comprehend responsible financial retirement planning, and I think that is quite an assumption.
Because someone may have a differing opinion does not make them financially irresponsible or not able to understand a 401K. Maybe many should have simply been labeled "some" or in my opinion simply not stated at all..
other than that, the rest of the post had some merit for discussion.
