Afa To Challenge 21% Wage Cut In Court
- Thread starter PITbull
- Start date
PITbull said:
PITbull, thanks for the warm welcome. When I saw EAL being discused, I had to reply..
UYHD is right in the fact that there is not two airlines here, one being cannibalized for the benefit of the other. But there are two striking similarities between EAL and U. I have read on this board people talking about punitive actions by mangement to the rank and file in terms of discipline for almost even the smallest item. It don't know what it is like at U, but at EAL where I worked (MIA ramp) they would set you up to fail then drag you into a special office called "the performance office" where you were interrogated (with a union rep present) and issued a letter of reprimand or unpaid days off. As an example of being set up to fail, they would expect you to load a fully loaded L-10-11 or A300 with a lead and crew of 2 and when you could not get it out in time, you were summoned to the "performance office. The reason for only having 1/3 of a crew is because management put the rest out of service. Another similarity I see is contract proposal that was sent to the U emplyees. At EAL, they sent us a proposal that they knew we would never ratify. Some people ask what did you accomplish at EAL? Well, for starters we got Lorenzo banned from the industry. .
Second, we stopped the disease so it would not spread to others. If we would have caven in, all other airlines at that time would have followed suit. And don't forget the
EAL/CO/Texas air entity was the largest airline in the free world at the time. So basically we bought the employees of the other airlines 15 years to make decent wages. I said 15 years ago "Today it is us at EA but in 10-15 years itwill happen to UA, DL, AA, etc." and here we are. Let me close by saying that I would never tell anyone how to vote because I feel it is their personal choice they will have to live with.
OP
PITbull
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- Dec 29, 2002
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aafsc,
What we have here at U, are the LORENZO offsprings.
They are here and they are "dismantling" all labor groups, busting us from here to Kingdom come.
I don't know if folks inside realize this and feel there is nothing hey can do, or that they don't even recognize this.
AFA will probably get a T/A soon, and it sucks and will destroy the entire profession. There is one piece in the language that give folks a way out of here, and many will take it. However, if it doesn't ratify, I will fight all they way out the door.
My endeavor is to help the employees transition or bridge to other employment and get out. There is a antepenur in Pittsburgh who is willing to help the employees in western PA by providing a "link" to 100 business that want the U employees. We can do this in our group because our skills can be transferred to many business other than aviation for the same or more money than here at U. The other groups like IAM, I think they will fight and that will help put an end to this cancer before it spreads to the other carriers. CWA will as well, as the company has caged these two groups in a corner; they have no choice.
What we have here at U, are the LORENZO offsprings.
They are here and they are "dismantling" all labor groups, busting us from here to Kingdom come.
I don't know if folks inside realize this and feel there is nothing hey can do, or that they don't even recognize this.
AFA will probably get a T/A soon, and it sucks and will destroy the entire profession. There is one piece in the language that give folks a way out of here, and many will take it. However, if it doesn't ratify, I will fight all they way out the door.
My endeavor is to help the employees transition or bridge to other employment and get out. There is a antepenur in Pittsburgh who is willing to help the employees in western PA by providing a "link" to 100 business that want the U employees. We can do this in our group because our skills can be transferred to many business other than aviation for the same or more money than here at U. The other groups like IAM, I think they will fight and that will help put an end to this cancer before it spreads to the other carriers. CWA will as well, as the company has caged these two groups in a corner; they have no choice.
You know, none of yo need to take my word for a thing.
Instead, go out and look for yourself, and see that the WORLD has changed, not just your little slice called US Airways.
Ask your fellow employees that have been on furlough, ask a lot of em, see where they have ended up, what they have done, what opportunities they had.
MidAtlantic is furlough-ville. You people need top realize the MDA employees have a different perspective than you because they have been forced out
You still have a choice, mighgt want to look into the new reality before making assumptions
Instead, go out and look for yourself, and see that the WORLD has changed, not just your little slice called US Airways.
Ask your fellow employees that have been on furlough, ask a lot of em, see where they have ended up, what they have done, what opportunities they had.
MidAtlantic is furlough-ville. You people need top realize the MDA employees have a different perspective than you because they have been forced out
You still have a choice, mighgt want to look into the new reality before making assumptions
Formatman
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- Aug 20, 2002
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USFlyer said:
What world are you living in? I'll Tell you the difference in mainline and express. An express person may put 50 people on a flight and deal with 50 problems. A mainline person may put 150 people on an flight and deal with 150 problems. I am talking from an agent's perspective. So based on your "ratio" train of thought...a mainline agent should be making three time what an express agent makes.
UseYourHead
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- Apr 1, 2003
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Welcome aafsc,
And thank you for your insight. I have to weigh in with this point, as it is quite relevant. What is happening in the industry today is much bigger than US Airways, and I (most) don't believe for a second if we hold the line that it will change a thing...except that we will be unemployment.
Airline deregulation has taken a few decades to finally roust, but it is happening now. This is why AMR, DAL, UAir, AWA, and UAL are all struggling to cut our costs. The airline that have not made major progress, (NWA) will be shortly.
So it is a very different day here, Lorenzo is not raiding one airline to build another, rather, the entire industry is morphing in an effort to compete...those who are able to morph will survive. LLC's are here to stay, and will continue to grow until it is no longer profitable to do so...IOW, until the legacy airline can compete and not bleed.
Thank you for what you did years ago, you fought a good fight! (These are different times that require a different response to here another day).
PS One poster said we are dismantling mainline to fund Express...I would ask, why did we (the unions) not allow the company to build express while Comair, ASA, Skywest, CalExpress, and so on were building all around us. We have lost much of our feed to competitor’s hubs and we are working to get it back...DUH.
That is why we have to grow express...I have and idea though...lets make it all one big airline, all take a pay cut and be an awesome competitor. I'll do it, will you? (And I fly the A330 but I not too good to fly an RJ)
And thank you for your insight. I have to weigh in with this point, as it is quite relevant. What is happening in the industry today is much bigger than US Airways, and I (most) don't believe for a second if we hold the line that it will change a thing...except that we will be unemployment.
Airline deregulation has taken a few decades to finally roust, but it is happening now. This is why AMR, DAL, UAir, AWA, and UAL are all struggling to cut our costs. The airline that have not made major progress, (NWA) will be shortly.
So it is a very different day here, Lorenzo is not raiding one airline to build another, rather, the entire industry is morphing in an effort to compete...those who are able to morph will survive. LLC's are here to stay, and will continue to grow until it is no longer profitable to do so...IOW, until the legacy airline can compete and not bleed.
Thank you for what you did years ago, you fought a good fight! (These are different times that require a different response to here another day).
PS One poster said we are dismantling mainline to fund Express...I would ask, why did we (the unions) not allow the company to build express while Comair, ASA, Skywest, CalExpress, and so on were building all around us. We have lost much of our feed to competitor’s hubs and we are working to get it back...DUH.
That is why we have to grow express...I have and idea though...lets make it all one big airline, all take a pay cut and be an awesome competitor. I'll do it, will you? (And I fly the A330 but I not too good to fly an RJ)
aafsc said:
OP
PITbull
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UseYourHead said:
And the stupidity here is that these legacies do not set the fares to the market, they set the fares with the competition....
So, we sit with GOFARES competiting with LUV, and losing our pants.
Good job morphing to oblivion.
And to the knucklehead that believes fourloughees are running to express and MAA...the selectiees for MAA is now down through more than half the involuntary furlough list with folks passing and rejecting, and many resigning as we speak from MAA to other jobs.
Thus, the only reason for the two classes NECESSARY in December.
Stick that in and "pipe it".
CapnCockroach
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- Aug 20, 2002
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Y'know....,
You sit here and watch PB, 700,"Sparky"Jim, and all the CWA'ers whine, cry, ####, and complain about how they have been lied to , cheated on, robbed from, and generally horse-whipped...and I think..."Good Heavens, their company is BROKE".
But..Yup! I signed up for the same crap in '89. Didn't believe Carl would do it to us till he did.
Stayed around instead of getting out. Got the upgrade twice and watched it all fall down. Pretty dumb move, eh?
Watched all the "unionistas" with all their battle cries. Not one of them made a difference. Watched pilots like me sit on our asses for 5 or 6 hour "productivitybreaks" each day. Watched 3 and 4 Mechanics per 10 gates sit on their fat asses for hours. Many of whom had used company materials to prefab their own little air conditioned/heated portable one-man "hootches". Watched 10 or 12 "700" types sit on their fatter asses all day long, then complain really long and loud when I stopped the pushback for a missing bag. But hey, the "company" was stupid enough to give the IAM these perks. We won't get into the PB types, cause some were really good and some were really bad - just like "my" types.
Well, it's now past. Two years have gone by. In spite of all of the above, it was a good time. But, if you can afford it after USAirways, give your self some "time off". If your heart is still in this industry - all you have left is an LCC job, or something in the "non-union" arena (where I am at - and from a personal point of view - a much, much improved arena over the last). It's not the end of the world. Just "dump" the entitlement mentality of the unions. It just doesn't happen in the "real" world.
Also understand, I am now a "consumer". Air Tran has become my airline of choice. All I have to do is log on to their website and diddle around with my itinerary and get a really good price. Then I go to your web site and often times get a better price (given enough time). Only trouble is...your losing money.
I know you think you are being "screwed". And you are....but your company is broke. Just like mine was. It's a tough decision to decide which side of the fence to ride...but for me...now, in hindsight,..I would give anything to have the TWA culture (however beaten up it was by Carl - and you guys don't even come close) back. Hold on to it for as long as you can...it's a surprisingly fast, and painful death. And for some folks, very hard to get over.
To sum up....in this order:
1. Never, never, never, trust your union.
2. Trust you heart, and PUT FAMILY FIRST.
3. Never, never trust your company management.
I know, I know....you don't have to say it..
Best wishes for you all. I hope your 2005 Christmas is a great one. This one might be a little tough.
CC
You sit here and watch PB, 700,"Sparky"Jim, and all the CWA'ers whine, cry, ####, and complain about how they have been lied to , cheated on, robbed from, and generally horse-whipped...and I think..."Good Heavens, their company is BROKE".
But..Yup! I signed up for the same crap in '89. Didn't believe Carl would do it to us till he did.
Stayed around instead of getting out. Got the upgrade twice and watched it all fall down. Pretty dumb move, eh?
Watched all the "unionistas" with all their battle cries. Not one of them made a difference. Watched pilots like me sit on our asses for 5 or 6 hour "productivitybreaks" each day. Watched 3 and 4 Mechanics per 10 gates sit on their fat asses for hours. Many of whom had used company materials to prefab their own little air conditioned/heated portable one-man "hootches". Watched 10 or 12 "700" types sit on their fatter asses all day long, then complain really long and loud when I stopped the pushback for a missing bag. But hey, the "company" was stupid enough to give the IAM these perks. We won't get into the PB types, cause some were really good and some were really bad - just like "my" types.
Well, it's now past. Two years have gone by. In spite of all of the above, it was a good time. But, if you can afford it after USAirways, give your self some "time off". If your heart is still in this industry - all you have left is an LCC job, or something in the "non-union" arena (where I am at - and from a personal point of view - a much, much improved arena over the last). It's not the end of the world. Just "dump" the entitlement mentality of the unions. It just doesn't happen in the "real" world.
Also understand, I am now a "consumer". Air Tran has become my airline of choice. All I have to do is log on to their website and diddle around with my itinerary and get a really good price. Then I go to your web site and often times get a better price (given enough time). Only trouble is...your losing money.
I know you think you are being "screwed". And you are....but your company is broke. Just like mine was. It's a tough decision to decide which side of the fence to ride...but for me...now, in hindsight,..I would give anything to have the TWA culture (however beaten up it was by Carl - and you guys don't even come close) back. Hold on to it for as long as you can...it's a surprisingly fast, and painful death. And for some folks, very hard to get over.
To sum up....in this order:
1. Never, never, never, trust your union.
2. Trust you heart, and PUT FAMILY FIRST.
3. Never, never trust your company management.
I know, I know....you don't have to say it..
Best wishes for you all. I hope your 2005 Christmas is a great one. This one might be a little tough.
CC
I just think that it is going to be a sad wakeup call to those who think unemployment is some kind of paid vacation (trust me, it is not), or think that they can skate into a high paying easy working job if Airways goes under.
Despite what you think about the situation at airways, give yourself a better perspective and actively research your local job market, see where your qualifications fall, and make a real effort to see exactly what kind of possible retraining exists.
Do not take anyone's word for anything, check for yourself and get the real picture before deciding just how "bad" airways is.
The american workplace is different nowadays, and airways reflects that (it is not unique). Look for yourself.
Despite what you think about the situation at airways, give yourself a better perspective and actively research your local job market, see where your qualifications fall, and make a real effort to see exactly what kind of possible retraining exists.
Do not take anyone's word for anything, check for yourself and get the real picture before deciding just how "bad" airways is.
The american workplace is different nowadays, and airways reflects that (it is not unique). Look for yourself.
