AFA Labor Discussion (Work Conditions) 7-7 -

[Travelpro72]

I'll take a stab at that one. I find a CSD Program a concession if it isn't an "add" position. If that's the case then that is one less position for every other f/a to bid on. If they create this program exactly as I've read it will exclude many people from the program. I believe it is a needed position but I'm not a fan of how they are going about it. AT ALL! ! !

 

[ebwgs]

I'll take a stab at that one. I find a CSD Program a concession if it isn't an "add" position. If that's the case then that is one less position for every other f/a to bid on. If they create this program exactly as I've read it will exclude many people from the program. I believe it is a needed position but I'm not a fan of how they are going about it. AT ALL! ! !

Travel what have you read and where have you read details as to how the company wants to structure this program?

 

[galley princess]

Negotiations are rarely about what SHOULD happen.

If that were the case, we would have had a fair contract years ago.

Yes, US is in DIRE need of a lead F/A program. Unfortunately they have never and do not ever want to pay for it. I, as well as 4000 others have the right to fly that position if it comes to me in seniority. Believe it or not, it often goes junior. How are you going to compensate me for the loss of that work rule and money?

CONCESSION. Please see my list of demands.

Yawn. I thought not.

They GET NOTHING for free, or their favorite: cheap.

This is easy stuff people. And by the way, this is business, they operate the same way. To confuse it with being "excessive" or disloyal is to not see that the barracudas on the other side will eat you alive if you let them.

You don't need an MBA to know that if you want something, you have to pay for it.

 

[beachboy]

TravelPro hit it right on the head. It's a concession alone on the fact it's not an "add" position. Go ahead vote yourself out of a bid position. Does the position float or just sit on the 1L jumpseat and eat leftover desserts? Duuuuh
Forgive me if I tell them where to stick their "CSD" program. Press #2 to cast a NO VOTE. BEEEEEEP as I hit #2. On that note, the CSD term is so British Airways crap. Purser is more appropriate as industry standard.

 

[Zarah]

If I am not qualified to apply for the position, I am not qualified to be quick called at 2 a.m. into the position.

 

[VAflyGal]

If I am not qualified to apply for the position, I am not qualified to be quick called at 2 a.m. into the position.

Oh Zarah, I'm certain there will be some loosely-worded language that permits a RSV to fly CSD during "irregular operations" or "at scheduling's discretion." I seriously doubt they would quick call someone in the program who isn't on reservem. "The blockholders would never go for that."

Wake up, people. Read the most recent Council 66 E-line and read it well, then read between the lines and read what isn't being said. Oh I'm sure some things were left out and some things weren't clarified, and I heard Mike Flores himself is once again seething because Lisa put something out without his permission or agreement or shining his shoes first. Blah blah blahhhhhh, at least someone is communicating with their members because it's crickets out of the East people on the JNC, who I might remind you have not, do not, and will not fly under our current or future agreements.

Pure conflict of interest.
As far as I'm concerned they can take the garbage they've negotiated (and all the sections that are tabled) and take it right back where they got it from.

Increase in guarantee, compensation, 100% sick, vacation, increased rest (what's this 24 in 7 in a hotel crap or 8 hours in base garbage?)

Stronger scope language, better duty rigs.

I want the WHOLE contract, not bullet points and I want new language in RED and old language in black, or highlighted or underlined or whatever. If they can do it in our manuals they can do it with the contract.

I want A RESERVE to help negotiate the reserve section, not some PBGC collecting, social security earning, 105 international with an expense budget who hasn't flown in YEARS pushing a number two pencil written draft back and forth to management who are dead set on concessions.

I don't want to clean the airplanes. Bring back utility. Bring back crew meals. Bring back dry cleaning allowances. Bring back duty rigs. Bring back retiree medical.

No No No No No No NO NO NO!

 

[beachboy]

Lisa is a Sociopath come on! I meet the woman and she acts like she has body parts in her basement. No emotion...no anything....just blank. She really thinks what insane thoughts go through that head of her's. AFA International is so irritated with her I swear. She THINKS by sabotage she will win AFA 66 back into Section 6. How sad, yet delusional. That said, she is putting out some half ass info. It's info but none the less one paragraph of 20+. Come on. 3 sentences on CSD out of 20 paragraphs?
Mike wont say a peep and Lisa has diarrhea of the mouth. Jesus help us all.

 

[PITbull]

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. I left because I refused to ever even contemplating going back on reserve again. But the math is such that if a CBA sent out for ratification contained language changing the existing reserve system to something less onerous to those currently on reserve by spreading out the responsibilities for being subject to reserve, and assuming that the current reserves were about 25% of the electorate (which is probably high), then you would need 33% or more of the FA's not subject to reserve to vote in favor of the contract. Even worse is the consideration that by shear numbers I cannot foresee any way that sufficient votes can be obtained to spread the reserve responsibility around among a larger group. The reason? Self interest. They control everything and unless you find a lever large enough to move that amount of mass you will not arrive at your goal.

The better question, in the longer term, is if you manage to escape reserve via turnover will you vote to retain your new found gain or will you vote to subject yourself to more of the same?

Good point!

 

[PITbull]

As I read these posts I have to wonder, is it really such a surprise?

It was crystal clear from the time that the merger happened that AWA LOVED having the lowest paid employees in the airline industry.

Why would you think they would give it up?

Of COURSE they are playing this out until probably right before we're allowed to do CHAOS. They think that they'll throw us a tiny raise and those that have suffered so in the last eight years will bite and pass what is really looking to be another concessionary agreement.

FACTS:
-Separating from the pilots is a concession.

-A Lead F/A program is a concession.

-Changing/ modifying or otherwise tampering with the bidsheet is a concession.

At no time should concessions be anywhere near this agreement. No, I am not crazy about the fact that CA is negotiating for us AGAIN. However realistically that ship sailed. The only thing we have is our vote.

Here's the only way I would vote for any of this nonsense:

-A return of everything I gave up in 2002.

-A minimum of another $20/ hour for EVERY F/A, with significant raises built in.

-a bonus for signing the agreement that is five years late.

-100% sick

-Return to previous vacation time with a NEGOTIATED matrix. Not this ridiculous 9 people get vacation in August in PHL that we have now. Just who loves having all of their vacation in Jan, Feb and March and has worked for a corporation in excess of 20 years?

-If-then clauses that penalize scheduling when they mess with F/As schedules. If you re-route a F/A unfairly, then you pay her for the rest of the month to go home and stay there.

-Language to prevent forever what has happened to AWA F/As. No one should be forced to forgo a contract because it's convenient for the corporation. Working under a what? 1989 contract for 20 years? Where in the universe should that be legal?


I realize this sounds a bit excessive, but folks the fact that we gave up the workrules that we did is why we are in this mess. If we had taken the hits in the money area, we would already have a new agreement. Work rules are where the money and quality of life live. They're not getting ANYTHING else from me. The concession stand is closed.

Finally, realize that nothing is free except for the mediocre. If we wait and play this out, which we SHOULD do at this point since we're so close, CHAOS is effective but not pretty. No crew back from Tel Aviv because they were met by an AFA rep and given tickets home on DELTA. Sorry, you're flight is the subject of a labor action. No crew back from LHR, no crew back from ANC. That's how CHAOS works. The good news is, those flights are senior, and these ladies were around when the Memorial Day massacre happened. Hopefully they'll rise to the occasion and save us all. If not, we'll get what we get. Having said that I am cheered by how many F/As I am meeting with second gigs. Strength isn't cheap. Consider that and plan accordingly.

You are definitely thinking, and what you cite above IS what the f/as deserve and should get!!!!

 

[Zarah]

she acts like she has body parts in her basement. No emotion...no anything....just blank.

RLMAO

 

[ebwgs]

Negotiations are rarely about what SHOULD happen.


Yes, US is in DIRE need of a lead F/A program. Unfortunately they have never and do not ever want to pay for it. I, as well as 4000 others have the right to fly that position if it comes to me in seniority. Believe it or not, it often goes junior. How are you going to compensate me for the loss of that work rule and money?

I find it interesting that we often complain about how Mickey Mouse the company can be with the product we deliver to the flying public, and how we frequently lament how we should be dressing up our service instead of dressing it down to better compete with our larger competitors, yet when a credible idea such as a "CSD" program is mentioned that whole notion of raising our standards is trashed in the name of seniority. The fact is, if there is a CSD program we all have the "right" to apply for the program and earn whatever compensation is due. The great entitlement program called "seniority" at US Airways often gets in the way of achieving some real accountability on the airplane, and as a result our service is often perceived as inconsistent, or mediocre at best. A CSD or lead program in my opinion would go a long ways toward establishing some consistency and service continuity on the airplane. It seems to work well for those competitors so many of us admire, and if we're serious about stepping up our game then we should put some teeth behind it and stop hiding behind the naked skirt of seniority..

 

[ebwgs]

TravelPro hit it right on the head. It's a concession alone on the fact it's not an "add" position. Go ahead vote yourself out of a bid position. Does the position float or just sit on the 1L jumpseat and eat leftover desserts? Duuuuh
Forgive me if I tell them where to stick their "CSD" program. Press #2 to cast a NO VOTE. BEEEEEEP as I hit #2. On that note, the CSD term is so British Airways crap. Purser is more appropriate as industry standard.

If the company wants a lead program bad enough than the union can negotiate adding another position that is not an "extra" position, so I'm not voting myself out of a position. If that line of thinking prevailed then we'd never have had a lodo program. The lodos have proved to be invaluable, not just to our non-english speaking customers but also to other flight attendants. Imagine an english speaking only crew trying to service the needs of a planeload of passengers headed to Brazil or France. They usually are the hardest working flight attendants on the airplane, should be compensated more than they are, and deserve all praises due. Although there are no details as to what the CSD's duties would entail, I doubt that they'd be sitting on the 1L J/S eating leftover desserts lol. Whereas you deride CSD as "British Airways crap" the last time I checked they have a pretty good service reputation. I don't care what we call the position, we just need to have a program in place. And we need not settle for ANY concessions including separate pairings. I do not see the lead program as a concession. I see it as an enhancement

 

[beachboy]

If the company wants a lead program bad enough than the union can negotiate adding another position that is not an "extra" position, so I'm not voting myself out of a position.

With your line of thinking I can think of plenty of things to give up! Screw LODOs we can hire Launguage Speakers. It's the little things you think don't matter now but they add up and chip away at the spirit of the contract and our jobs. Like I said, they want it bad enough (and I agree it's needed) then it's a supplimental ADD or no go with me. End of story.

 

[galley princess]

There are things that are our problem and things that aren't.

US has had the inconsistency factor for thirty years. For about five years in the 90s they did get it together, but that was due to considerable resources being devoted to service and training. That the bankruptcy and AWA came along and eliminated those gains is NOT my problem.

Like I said, they can have their CSD program.

They just have to pay me for the loss of my work rule.

That they don't want to pay for it, and therefore won't get it?

NOT MY PROBLEM.

As for the allegation of hiding behind seniority? Seniority is a fact of life in the airline industry. Despite many wishes t the contrary it will not change. Junior people are demographically screwed. I know, I am one. I have said it before, we have another ten years before Sally Senior goes anywhere. The baby boom generation is currently sitting on most of the generations that have followed. They can't afford to retire, in many instances they're still too young, and they will also have to work longer than their parents.

Seen a lot of grey hair lately? Get used to it. Current retirement age is 67. Throw in dropping to 40 hours and doing a little TLV and a CDG and you WILL see 70+ year olds on the airplane.

If this strikes you as unfair or untenable, you need to look outside the airline industry. Seniority rules at EVERY United States carrier. Clever carriers like southwest buy them out. AWA shakes when they write checks. They won't be writing that big one.

You get what you pay for. You want a CSD program? You pay for it.

 

[Travelpro72]

I understand that Lisa put out half baked information but the basic premise is that the CSD program the company wants and AFA is entertaining is NOT an "add" position. I'm sorry, but due to crappy training, lazy employees hiding behind their seniority to TAKE the CSD position you have the problems you see on Int'l today. While a fix to that problem is a CSD program or Purser program I am not willing to entertain the notion if it isn't an ADD position. PERIOD! ! ! ! It is voting away a position off of every single A330, 767 or 757 flying to Europe. I don't care what the other 20+ paragraphs have to say about the program. It seems that Lisa, as wacko as she is posted the most important part. No thanks. You couple all of this with the reserve language being negotiated I find myself already voting NO.