AFA Labor Discussion (Work Conditions) 7-7 -

[PITbull]

Negotiations are rarely about what SHOULD happen.


They GET NOTHING for free, or their favorite: cheap.

This is easy stuff people. And by the way, this is business, they operate the same way. To confuse it with being "excessive" or disloyal is to not see that the barracudas on the other side will eat you alive if you let them.
You don't need an MBA to know that if you want something, you have to pay for it.

Now, if you could bottle this concept and make the f/as drink it, you would have an amazingingly, well-deserved contract to live under.

 

[PITbull]

There are things that are our problem and things that aren't.

US has had the inconsistency factor for thirty years. For about five years in the 90s they did get it together, but that was due to considerable resources being devoted to service and training. That the bankruptcy and AWA came along and eliminated those gains is NOT my problem.

Like I said, they can have their CSD program.

They just have to pay me for the loss of my work rule.

That they don't want to pay for it, and therefore won't get it?

NOT MY PROBLEM.

As for the allegation of hiding behind seniority? Seniority is a fact of life in the airline industry. Despite many wishes t the contrary it will not change. Junior people are demographically screwed. I know, I am one. I have said it before, we have another ten years before Sally Senior goes anywhere. The baby boom generation is currently sitting on most of the generations that have followed. They can't afford to retire, in many instances they're still too young, and they will also have to work longer than their parents.

Seen a lot of grey hair lately? Get used to it. Current retirement age is 67. Throw in dropping to 40 hours and doing a little TLV and a CDG and you WILL see 70+ year olds on the airplane.

If this strikes you as unfair or untenable, you need to look outside the airline industry. Seniority rules at EVERY United States carrier. Clever carriers like southwest buy them out. AWA shakes when they write checks. They won't be writing that big one.

You get what you pay for. You want a CSD program? You pay for it.

Princess,

I think you have very good logic and obviously intelligence.

The only thing I want to throw out there (and is probably off topic), is that the baby boomers have paid for their parents retirmements (form of MDC and social security) and also their chirldren's generation of education goers to infinity.

We boomers have made more in our lifetimes, more than our parents, and probably more than our children will even with all their education, which is paid for by once again their parents (us). So, while they have been going to school to receive their Phds, wever been working, paying taxes, paying their educations, trying to save for our retirements, and our parents social security. And the gov. is spending so much money, that they are looking to screw the baby boomers out of their entitlements by extending retirment ages.

So, work longer, the baby boomers will!!! Not because they dreamed of it, wanted to all along, but because they have to.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

No dog in the fight but curious, How many of the vol furlough f/a's did the company go through to get THE 125? THANX in advance for any info!MM!

 

[Travelpro72]

From what I have heard, 18 have said no to returning. I believe that some of the f/a's that said yes only did so to buy themselves some time. From that number, the ones who return will only stay a short time after they reallize what they have returned to. The list needs to be cleared though it will cause problems for all who are junior to those returning. It will at least get rid of the constant cloud hanging over everyones head. Now, speaking of these senior people and being in the AFA thread.......Is the union trying to negotiate the ability for these more senior people to leave? It's great that the union thinks they are negotiating a great reserve section ( I just choked) but what is the union doing to get people OFF of reserve? THAT is the bigger question.

 

[AstroLounge]

No dog in the fight but curious, How many of the vol furlough f/a's did the company go through to get THE 125? THANX in advance for any info!MM!

I do NOT believe We have reached 'Judgement Day' yet.........if memory serves me right, I believe it is the 25th of August. It will be VERY Interesting to see Who/what comes back..........some took the leaves because they didn't want to be Here THEN............and wait until they come back and see what the hell the place is like NOW. And let's not forget, Most of them haven't really dealt with Team Tempe and Life on the Rio Salado. "Take OFF the Rose Coloured Glasses because YOU are about to Enter the TWIGHLIGHT ZONE".

 

[Zarah]

I think they have until the 25th to respond.

 

[VAflyGal]

@ MM, it closes Aug 25. I've heard different things- the most recent being 88% have said "yes" but then when spekaing with JM, he said ppl are calling every day asking what would happen if they quit the day of training, or changed their minds, or could they retire without coming back.
I'm not going to venture a guess because it will change, and for those who do come back... Well I bet quite a few will quit once they see what a scene this place has become.

 

[BajaBabe]

So great JM was there for them YEA YEA

 

[Travelpro72]

JM is and has always been there for HIMSELF. Make no mistake about it. There are still people out on the line that say, "Call John, he's great". Of course I say, "Great at what"? What has he done for you that is go great and lightyears beyond what any other LECP has done for you? CRICKETS! ! ! !

 

[StewGuy86]

My sources tell me that they're getting a much higher ratio of "yes" responses than expected. Recall closes Thursday the 25th and everyone on the list who indicated a desire to return will be notified on the 26th as to whether or not they made the cut. However, if the recall from 2 yrs. ago is any indication, not all of the 125 will actually show up for training in November, and others will go through training but either quit or just not show up for duty afterwards. And as someone mentioned, still others will come back, see what things are like once they fly a few trips, and then quit. Should be interesting.

 

[Travelpro72]

There will be those that accept recall, go through requalification and hit the line. That said, MANY will find themselves in complete shock as to what this airline has become. You will see some leave upon returning practically running for the 1L door. Those that said yes are milking it for what it's worth up until the very end. The recession has been hard but I find it hard to believe most on that VF list are unemployed waiting for US to call. I mean really? They wanted out THEN? Just wait until they return.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Sorry for changing subjects and maybe this has been mentioned earlier in the thread when I was away so I missed it, but has some agreement been reached concerning the FA's position on what sounds like the "me too" issue. Either Parker or Kirby mentioned that the issue of pilots and FA's being scheduled together had been settled and negotiations would likely speed up as a consequence, so it sounded like the "me too" language was going away.

Jim

 

[Travelpro72]

Take it for what it's worth and believe what you want to believe but Mike Flores apparently says that AFA has already negotiated better rest requirements, rigs, etc. I'm guessing he believes that what they have negotiated is better than what pilots have or WILL have whenever the FAA changes their rules. I honestly don't think the pilots are going to see sweeping changes. Seeing will be believing. My problem with all of it is this. If the company wants to mmmmm say "violate" your language what power will that F/A have besides "fly it and grieve it"? I want BLACK AND WHITE language with no room for the company to interpret ANYTHING to their advantage. I mean, I'm already voting NO as I don't like anything about the new reserve section so. Pointless I guess.

 

[aptboeses]

Take it for what it's worth and believe what you want to believe but Mike Flores apparently says that AFA has already negotiated better rest requirements, rigs, etc. I'm guessing he believes that what they have negotiated is better than what pilots have or WILL have whenever the FAA changes their rules. I honestly don't think the pilots are going to see sweeping changes. Seeing will be believing. My problem with all of it is this. If the company wants to mmmmm say "violate" your language what power will that F/A have besides "fly it and grieve it"? I want BLACK AND WHITE language with no room for the company to interpret ANYTHING to their advantage. I mean, I'm already voting NO as I don't like anything about the new reserve section so. Pointless I guess.

Flight attendants have the same ability now to quote from the contract to prevent abuse by the company. However, how many flight attendants actually carry their contracts with them let alone know anything that's inside the cover?

I do agree we need much more stringent and clear language in the new contract to remove as much "interpretation" as possible.

 

[really?noreally]

Take it for what it's worth and believe what you want to believe but Mike Flores apparently says that AFA has already negotiated better rest requirements, rigs, etc. I'm guessing he believes that what they have negotiated is better than what pilots have or WILL have whenever the FAA changes their rules. I honestly don't think the pilots are going to see sweeping changes. Seeing will be believing. My problem with all of it is this. If the company wants to mmmmm say "violate" your language what power will that F/A have besides "fly it and grieve it"? I want BLACK AND WHITE language with no room for the company to interpret ANYTHING to their advantage. I mean, I'm already voting NO as I don't like anything about the new reserve section so. Pointless I guess.

He must be a 'legend' in his own mind - his statement? -'what they have neogiated is better than what the pilots have or will have....' /////show us the comparison..
This company will violate to 'protect the operation' whenever is suits them - and AFA will end up grieving it, their concern for a DFR, duty of fair representation, and the violation will continue until such grievance is heard....what a year or so later?
many are w/you Travelpro(and yes, the reserve language in this 'merged' agreement stinks, too much company control) - send them back, vote no.