AFA Labor Discussion (Work Conditions) 7-7 -

[VAflyGal]

A very smart friend of mine wrote this and I just had to share it. This is how defeated and disgusted we are. It's beyond pathetic.

The golden rules:

RESERVE doesn't matter unless you're on it.
......
DISPLACEMENT doesn't matter unless you're getting it.

MIDATLANTIC didn't matter unless you were on it.

FURLOUGH doesn't matter unless you about to be.

SENIORITY doesn't matter unless you're a blockholder.

WHERE PEOPLE LIVE doesn't matter, why simply commute elsewhere and allow people who live in base to stay, as long as there's the minute chance you'll do international outside of summer.

SCOPE didn't matter unless you lost your job over it (or even knew what it was).

YOUR CONTRACT doesn't matter unless F/As have the nerve to try and negotiate one instead of copying the pilots.

STAYING INFORMED doesn't matter unless it's a screeching, dramatic, uneducated and misinformed diatribe from an idiot.

KNOWING YOUR CONTRACT doesn't matter until you are about to close the door and don't know if you're legal.

HOTELS, AIR QUALITY, REST doesn't matter enough after the fact to write up/do something about.

THE WEST doesn't matter despite the fact that without them you'd be locked into your bankruptcy contract for as long as you agreed rather than getting a new one.

YOUR UNION doesn't matter enough to go to a meeting, learn basic civics, or vote.

YOUR CO-WORKERS don't matter unless they are senior to you or you want them to work for you so you can get off.

YOUR QUALITY OF LIFE doesn't matter unless you are Carol Austin.

YOUR JOB doesn't matter enough to care, so you get what you deserve.

 

[VAflyGal]

Lisa from the West Coast MEC just put out a very meaty side of the Flight Attendant Agreement................yeow battle stations...................

I'm completely disgusted with the lack of care for reserve issues. I'm more disgusted that Mike Flores doesnt communicate with us at all except to sell us some spin BS.
OVER IT!

 

[ggiby]

I'm completely disgusted with the lack of care for reserve issues. I'm more disgusted that Mike Flores doesnt communicate with us at all except to sell us some spin BS.
OVER IT!

Ok... my first thought is, Didn't all of the mudslinging go on the last time we were in negioations?
Right now we have whom we have in place, and they are the people working on the negioations .
The only power we have, is to read the tentative, whenever there is one. Then we get to vote.
If you do not feel that it is in your best interest, vote NO.
If you like it vote yes. Me for one will vote no, if we do not stay pared w/ the pilots.
I will also vote no if I don't get some of my pay back, vacation back, and sick leave 100% credit.

 

[hp_fa]

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. I left because I refused to ever even contemplating going back on reserve again. But the math is such that if a CBA sent out for ratification contained language changing the existing reserve system to something less onerous to those currently on reserve by spreading out the responsibilities for being subject to reserve, and assuming that the current reserves were about 25% of the electorate (which is probably high), then you would need 33% or more of the FA's not subject to reserve to vote in favor of the contract. Even worse is the consideration that by shear numbers I cannot foresee any way that sufficient votes can be obtained to spread the reserve responsibility around among a larger group. The reason? Self interest. They control everything and unless you find a lever large enough to move that amount of mass you will not arrive at your goal.

The better question, in the longer term, is if you manage to escape reserve via turnover will you vote to retain your new found gain or will you vote to subject yourself to more of the same?

 

[really?noreally]

Ok... my first thought is, Didn't all of the mudslinging go on the last time we were in negioations?
Right now we have whom we have in place, and they are the people working on the negioations .
The only power we have, is to read the tentative, whenever there is one. Then we get to vote.
If you do not feel that it is in your best interest, vote NO.
If you like it vote yes. Me for one will vote no, if we do not stay pared w/ the pilots.
I will also vote no if I don't get some of my pay back, vacation back, and sick leave 100% credit.

you know folks we do have '2' merger negotiators on the east but have no information other than what is provided from c 66 - both east merger negotiators have written out in a public forum....one practically works for JP in scheduling writing CBS messages for the company, ...and was a former mecp and wrote the infamous 'guide to implementation'..you know, sally and joe were on the same trip but sally worked..blah blah blah..
why don't we have any information - why must the east f/as be provided with c66 e-lines just to get up dated - if one east negotiator is unable to write out the other should....and the membership needs to demand it.
after reading the c66 eline one must absolutely read in -between the lines....nautical miles determine when we clean..ya ok - wow what an improvement - wow, did you read how we got 'no cleaning' on NTI flights and all TI flights, they must have fought really hard for that one.....5 years and counting..
hmmmm check out the 'red' tabled,until further talks highlighted sections per c66 - pay attention folks and we need to ask questions now..

..... the membership does have a say and we should not just sit back and 'wait' for a tentative to come out, let's let those in office know now..what we expect them to fight for, what we deserve, and it is not the same concessionary agreement just using different verbage.

the new csd language mentioned in the c 66 eline appears to be for those that have more seniority...those that have seniority will be holding the positions/qualifying - flying csd or lead for 150 hrs in the most recent 6 months/pre application...making the 'extra' $$(preminum) determined by most likely the company/ and not this weak east JNC - why not open it up to all f/as...reserve and junior line holders should have the same opportunities to qualify for csd pay/ make extra money...why is this good? Why does this have to be in there? the seniority on this property, east is 8/9 years most junior - and flying lead or csd is not rocket science. Open it up to all flight attendants without any caveats...

if the 'green' sections are 'tentatively' agreed to - why can't we see all of this language now so we can ask questions now...not at some road show ....a couple of days before we are expected to vote.....we go to meetings and get the same run around....

the frustration level is high, this concessionary agreement is killing us all and voices that have read all, tried to pay attention and not publically commented are coming out of the wood work.....not that anyone would have a 'slater moment' open an a/c door, activating the slide, grab a beer, jump out and drive home and certainly, no one is suggesting it...(this is very dangerous and not safe) -
.. but we now need to voice the frustration loudly and clearly - the trust is just not there, ASK questions, get clarifications of all of these 'negotiations update' info provided to us and we need to demand answers from those that are 'suppose' to be representing ( half of them do not even know the current contract), having our best interests ( our backs, so to speak) when negotiating with the company...we want detailed information, how does the language 'really' work, how does not pairing with the pilots 'really' work, with our collective power in scheduling situations while paired with the pilots gone should we 'agree' to go down this path, what is the benefit to all, does it benefit the company more, why does the company want this so bad, what did we give up, once again to get this 'new' language....we should not have to give anything, nothing, nadda......no trade offs -

what about the Reserve language - how does this 'really' work - 4 day duty day bucket system, why is this good? how come I am not able to use my seniority when I am avl for more than 4 days and there are more 4 day trips than those avl? inverse assign daily, quick call, why is this good? why am I punished by not being able to call out of time when I decide to make myself avl for a daily call, why is this good? shift system controlled by scheduling, why is this good? has all been evaluated since the 2 recent base closures, how does the shift system work for the commuting reserve..? why is this good?

why is not getting vacation days back lost in a concessionary agreement, good? we want them back, all of them. we want 100 pay for sick, and we do not want to give anything because we got it back. NOTHING. these are simple messages, are they listening...?


if not, then perhaps we need to start a new club - the 'vote NO on the tentative agreement whenever it comes out(already been 5 years), send them back to the table club' or 'send someone 'new' to the table'club.......and it's most likely coming to a base near you very soon.

Our contract is amendable in DEC 2012 ( right on the cover January 10, 2005 to December 31, 2012 - section 6 negotiation openers would begin, usually 6 to 8 months prior according to the C & B ( online afanet.org) had we not been in merger talks - what really happens now, will a mediator suspend our SEC 6 if we want to begin? Will we know the answers to this question? C66 sec 6 negotiations were suspended, and then they just asked for pay parity ( which they should have gotten/some f/as make 40% less than east) - SEC 6 negotiations, does offer more way more interesting abilities than negotiations in a merger.....one in particular 'chaos', after cooling off period, should the company be dragging their feet.....interesting reading in that AFA C & B....

 

[ebwgs]

you know folks we do have '2' merger negotiators on the east but have no information other than what is provided from c 66 - both east merger negotiators have written out in a public forum....one practically works for JP in scheduling writing CBS messages for the company, ...and was a former mecp and wrote the infamous 'guide to implementation'..you know, sally and joe were on the same trip but sally worked..blah blah blah..
why don't we have any information - why must the east f/as be provided with c66 e-lines just to get up dated - if one east negotiator is unable to write out the other should....and the membership needs to demand it.
after reading the c66 eline one must absolutely read in -between the lines....nautical miles determine when we clean..ya ok - wow what an improvement - wow, did you read how we got 'no cleaning' on NTI flights and all TI flights, they must have fought really hard for that one.....5 years and counting..
hmmmm check out the 'red' tabled,until further talks highlighted sections per c66 - pay attention folks and we need to ask questions now..

..... the membership does have a say and we should not just sit back and 'wait' for a tentative to come out, let's let those in office know now..what we expect them to fight for, what we deserve, and it is not the same concessionary agreement just using different verbage.

I get the gist of what you're saying, but why not try writing in a more clear and concise manner instead of writing in a way that seems to reflect that you are thinking out loud and writing accordingly? It would make your thoughts much easier to follow and help your points flow to where they can be more easily understood. Thx.

the new csd language mentioned in the c 66 eline appears to be for those that have more seniority...those that have seniority will be holding the positions/qualifying - flying csd or lead for 150 hrs in the most recent 6 months/pre application...making the 'extra' $$(preminum) determined by most likely the company/ and not this weak east JNC - why not open it up to all f/as...reserve and junior line holders should have the same opportunities to qualify for csd pay/ make extra money...why is this good? Why does this have to be in there? the seniority on this property, east is 8/9 years most junior - and flying lead or csd is not rocket science. Open it up to all flight attendants without any caveats...

if the 'green' sections are 'tentatively' agreed to - why can't we see all of this language now so we can ask questions now...not at some road show ....a couple of days before we are expected to vote.....we go to meetings and get the same run around....

the frustration level is high, this concessionary agreement is killing us all and voices that have read all, tried to pay attention and not publically commented are coming out of the wood work.....not that anyone would have a 'slater moment' open an a/c door, activating the slide, grab a beer, jump out and drive home and certainly, no one is suggesting it...(this is very dangerous and not safe) -
.. but we now need to voice the frustration loudly and clearly - the trust is just not there, ASK questions, get clarifications of all of these 'negotiations update' info provided to us and we need to demand answers from those that are 'suppose' to be representing ( half of them do not even know the current contract), having our best interests ( our backs, so to speak) when negotiating with the company...we want detailed information, how does the language 'really' work, how does not pairing with the pilots 'really' work, with our collective power in scheduling situations while paired with the pilots gone should we 'agree' to go down this path, what is the benefit to all, does it benefit the company more, why does the company want this so bad, what did we give up, once again to get this 'new' language....we should not have to give anything, nothing, nadda......no trade offs -

what about the Reserve language - how does this 'really' work - 4 day duty day bucket system, why is this good? how come I am not able to use my seniority when I am avl for more than 4 days and there are more 4 day trips than those avl? inverse assign daily, quick call, why is this good? why am I punished by not being able to call out of time when I decide to make myself avl for a daily call, why is this good? shift system controlled by scheduling, why is this good? has all been evaluated since the 2 recent base closures, how does the shift system work for the commuting reserve..? why is this good?

why is not getting vacation days back lost in a concessionary agreement, good? we want them back, all of them. we want 100 pay for sick, and we do not want to give anything because we got it back. NOTHING. these are simple messages, are they listening...?


if not, then perhaps we need to start a new club - the 'vote NO on the tentative agreement whenever it comes out(already been 5 years), send them back to the table club' or 'send someone 'new' to the table'club.......and it's most likely coming to a base near you very soon.

Our contract is amendable in DEC 2012 ( right on the cover January 10, 2005 to December 31, 2012 - section 6 negotiation openers would begin, usually 6 to 8 months prior according to the C & B ( online afanet.org) had we not been in merger talks - what really happens now, will a mediator suspend our SEC 6 if we want to begin? Will we know the answers to this question? C66 sec 6 negotiations were suspended, and then they just asked for pay parity ( which they should have gotten/some f/as make 40% less than east) - SEC 6 negotiations, does offer more way more interesting abilities than negotiations in a merger.....one in particular 'chaos', after cooling off period, should the company be dragging their feet.....interesting reading in that AFA C & B....

I get the gist of what you're saying, but why not try writing in a more clear and concise manner instead of writing in a way that seems to reflect that you are thinking out loud and writing accordingly? It would make your thoughts much easier to follow and help your points flow to where they can be more easily understood. Thx.

 

[OP Taylor]

I'm completely disgusted with the lack of care for reserve issues. I'm more disgusted that Mike Flores doesnt communicate with us at all except to sell us some spin BS.
OVER IT!

I have to agree with you on the communication issue. I get most of my information through the C66 E-Lines.
Aug 4-5 MEC meeting in CLT and no E-Line as to what took place. Did anything get done or did they spend most of the time posturing for the upcoming MEC Elections or should I say "rubbing each other's back"? As a matter of fact I don't believe there is any communication among the MEC themselves. My LEC Pres suggested having monthly conference calls to keep up to date with issues from base to base. I just heard that the PHL LECP and the DCA LECP proposed at a recent meeting to eliminate those calls. Why?? Perhaps they had nothing to discuss? How could there be nothing to talk about?

1. We have been in a 5 yr marathon they call " Merger Negotiations" but NOTHING TO TALK ABOUT?

2. Flying time is shifting all over the place with CLT growing and PHL shrinking but NOTHING TO TALK ABOUT?

3. Displacements and recalls but NOTHING TO TALK ABOUT?

This is truly scary to have these officers in control of our careers. Remember folks, the less communication the more we are kept in the dark. We all know what happens when the lights are turned off. That's when they slip everything by US. If they ever bring us something to vote on demand to see the entire agreement not just highlights as we have in the past because remember " NOBODY VOTED FOR ANY OF THE PREVIOUS CONTRACTS"
Just ask anyone and they will tell you they didnt vote for it.

Here are the links to find the previous E-Lines from each base. You can see the disparity in communication to our membership from base to base. 6 E-Lines between DCA/PHL combined in 2010? Must be not enough CBS messages to copy and paste???

http://www.afausairways.org/PHL/newsarchive.htm 18 E-Lines in 2009 3 E-Lines in 2010

http://www.afausairways.org/DCA/dcaarchive.htm 1 E-Line in 2009 3 E-Lines in 2010

http://www.afausairways.org/CLT/cltarchive.html 25 E-Lines in 2009 34 E-Lines in 2010

Please be vigilant and flood these Union offices with your phone calls. Tell them what YOU want, not what THEY want. They are suppose to be our voice.

MF doesn't communicate with us because he does not want to show his weakness. Maybe it was a good thing after all that Mike left us high and dry just 13 months after we elected him as our LECP. He can't get anything for us so he spends most of his time spinning. Whenever he gives the company more concessions he explains how the company really wanted to take more from us but he was able to minimize the concession.
A CHAIN IS ONLY AS STRONG AS ITS WEAKEST LINK. As I said in an earlier post he and the other East negotiator are very comfortable in their jobs as CAREER NEGOTIATORS. Are you starting to get the picture? They don't want to give up those jobs and therefore the entire flight attendant membership suffer. Below are some excerpts from my earlier post.

We have two negotiators on the East who seem to be very comfortable as career negotiators both raking in 105 hrs of flight pay a month and I have been told they are also eligible for SR/INTL pay as well. If my calculations are correct I figure they must be making at the very least $60,000 + yr. plus expenses. How many flight attendants are making $60,000 + yr plus per diem? Here is where the politics come into play. Once we reach and ratify a merged agreement we would have to then merge the two MEC offices into one. Those officers would be voted in by 4 LECP ( CLT, DCA, PHL, PHX). At the present time it doesn't appear MF has the support of 3 of the 4 votes to secure his position as the combined MEC Pres. Perhaps the bridges burnt along the way will come back to bite him? Kind of doubtful he would get any sympathy vote from LeCarre after attempting to strip her of her AFA membership much less any compassion from our CLT LECP in his failed attempt to dethrone her. Do you really think MF and CA are in a hurry to reach an agreement that will leave them without a job? YOU MAKE THE CALL!!!! We have to remember CA the other negotiator would be out of a FULL-TIME negotiator position and would have to make up that 105 hrs of flight pay ( perhaps by flying the line )? So ask yourself a question " WOULD YOU BE IN A RUSH TO REACH AN AGREEMENT THAT IS GOING TO PUT YOU OUT OF A CUSHY JOB?" I dont know about you but I am tired of hearing the multitude of excuses why we dont have a contract. As much as we know the company is dragging their feet ( saving money every day we dont ratify an agreement) I believe the East negotiators are right along side with them in that department. They spend more time coming up with excuse after excuse to shift the blame to the company, blaming the West AFA for internal problems, the Pilots issues, the FAA issues to name a few, in order to justify this 5 year marathon. The buzz on the line is they dont believe these players can finish the game.

We need to get out the broom and make a clean sweep of those who put their SELF SERVING AGENDAS ahead of improving the quality of life for the entire membership. Its time for the membership to stand up and just say NO. Hold your LEC President accountable. Get rid of the clowns and the circus will leave town!!!!!!!


THIS IS OUR UNION. LET'S TAKE IT BACK AND REMIND THEM THEY WORK FOR US!!!!!!!!!

 

[flybynite]

I have to agree with you on the communication issue. I get most of my information through the C66 E-Lines.
Aug 4-5 MEC meeting in CLT and no E-Line as to what took place. Did anything get done or did they spend most of the time posturing for the upcoming MEC Elections or should I say "rubbing each other's back"? As a matter of fact I don't believe there is any communication among the MEC themselves. My LEC Pres suggested having monthly conference calls to keep up to date with issues from base to base. I just heard that the PHL LECP and the DCA LECP proposed at a recent meeting to eliminate those calls. Why?? Perhaps they had nothing to discuss? How could there be nothing to talk about?

1. We have been in a 5 yr marathon they call " Merger Negotiations" but NOTHING TO TALK ABOUT?

2. Flying time is shifting all over the place with CLT growing and PHL shrinking but NOTHING TO TALK ABOUT?

3. Displacements and recalls but NOTHING TO TALK ABOUT?

This is truly scary to have these officers in control of our careers. Remember folks, the less communication the more we are kept in the dark. We all know what happens when the lights are turned off. That's when they slip everything by US. If they ever bring us something to vote on demand to see the entire agreement not just highlights as we have in the past because remember " NOBODY VOTED FOR ANY OF THE PREVIOUS CONTRACTS"
Just ask anyone and they will tell you they didnt vote for it.

Here are the links to find the previous E-Lines from each base. You can see the disparity in communication to our membership from base to base. 6 E-Lines between DCA/PHL combined in 2010? Must be not enough CBS messages to copy and paste???

http://www.afausairways.org/PHL/newsarchive.htm 18 E-Lines in 2009 3 E-Lines in 2010

http://www.afausairways.org/DCA/dcaarchive.htm 1 E-Line in 2009 3 E-Lines in 2010

http://www.afausairways.org/CLT/cltarchive.html 25 E-Lines in 2009 34 E-Lines in 2010

Please be vigilant and flood these Union offices with your phone calls. Tell them what YOU want, not what THEY want. They are suppose to be our voice.

MF doesn't communicate with us because he does not want to show his weakness. Maybe it was a good thing after all that Mike left us high and dry just 13 months after we elected him as our LECP. He can't get anything for us so he spends most of his time spinning. Whenever he gives the company more concessions he explains how the company really wanted to take more from us but he was able to minimize the concession.
A CHAIN IS ONLY AS STRONG AS ITS WEAKEST LINK. As I said in an earlier post he and the other East negotiator are very comfortable in their jobs as CAREER NEGOTIATORS. Are you starting to get the picture? They don't want to give up those jobs and therefore the entire flight attendant membership suffer. Below are some excerpts from my earlier post.

We have two negotiators on the East who seem to be very comfortable as career negotiators both raking in 105 hrs of flight pay a month and I have been told they are also eligible for SR/INTL pay as well. If my calculations are correct I figure they must be making at the very least $60,000 + yr. plus expenses. How many flight attendants are making $60,000 + yr plus per diem? Here is where the politics come into play. Once we reach and ratify a merged agreement we would have to then merge the two MEC offices into one. Those officers would be voted in by 4 LECP ( CLT, DCA, PHL, PHX). At the present time it doesn't appear MF has the support of 3 of the 4 votes to secure his position as the combined MEC Pres. Perhaps the bridges burnt along the way will come back to bite him? Kind of doubtful he would get any sympathy vote from LeCarre after attempting to strip her of her AFA membership much less any compassion from our CLT LECP in his failed attempt to dethrone her. Do you really think MF and CA are in a hurry to reach an agreement that will leave them without a job? YOU MAKE THE CALL!!!! We have to remember CA the other negotiator would be out of a FULL-TIME negotiator position and would have to make up that 105 hrs of flight pay ( perhaps by flying the line )? So ask yourself a question " WOULD YOU BE IN A RUSH TO REACH AN AGREEMENT THAT IS GOING TO PUT YOU OUT OF A CUSHY JOB?" I dont know about you but I am tired of hearing the multitude of excuses why we dont have a contract. As much as we know the company is dragging their feet ( saving money every day we dont ratify an agreement) I believe the East negotiators are right along side with them in that department. They spend more time coming up with excuse after excuse to shift the blame to the company, blaming the West AFA for internal problems, the Pilots issues, the FAA issues to name a few, in order to justify this 5 year marathon. The buzz on the line is they dont believe these players can finish the game.

We need to get out the broom and make a clean sweep of those who put their SELF SERVING AGENDAS ahead of improving the quality of life for the entire membership. Its time for the membership to stand up and just say NO. Hold your LEC President accountable. Get rid of the clowns and the circus will leave town!!!!!!!


THIS IS OUR UNION. LET'S TAKE IT BACK AND REMIND THEM THEY WORK FOR US!!!!!!!!!

Hello Newbie.....glad to have you with us.

You have concerns that are valid but I think it's not a good thing to change horses in the middle of the stream. I understand your frustration...I'm totally there too.

The company has drug their feet. They don't want to pay the West FA's the same salaries as us..They don't want to pay the West FA's the same rigs. They have used the Pilot issue as an excuse to not get off their butts and settle. Now we are within months of going into Section 6 negotiations.

Don't get distracted with the small stuff. Keep your eye on the ball.

Yes this is our Union. Not theirs. Don't let "company" rumors distract you.

In Solidarity
We win

 

[safety stud]

I just thought I would toss in my own two cents... As you know I retired a few months ago... Yet still keep in touch with all my friends...

To truly understand the frustration, you must understand yourselves. When you elected your MEC officers, MF to speak of, you elected him knowing what was at stake, aware of the constitution and bilaws governing his officership, aware that the MEC would put out applications to offer positions for the negotiating committee, and aware that the LEC presidents would decide who was put into place. You knew that right?, If you didn't, then you truly don't know your contract and bilaws. Now with that said, you then look at what you wanted the negotiationg to do.

1. Eliminate the numorous side letters....

Done, the contract is being re-written word for word. No gray areas open for interpritation. Including a glossary of words and descriptions agreed to by the company and union...

2. Taking each section of the contract, and negotiating a better deal for the F/A's...

Still in the process... You see, the union is and has been negotiating with the company for years... we all know that... The company has never had to, or needed to come to the table to... Get it... The CBA isn't open for negotiating truly till 2011... Yet... many areas of the contract have been signed off by the company and union...

3. Merge the East with the West...

Unable to do so.... Can't be done until the pilots reach an agreement on the seniority list.... Then the task of negotiating their merged agreements... There is no way that is going to happen anytime soon...

So, what do you do? Do you wait for the pilots.... Do you continue operate under the contract decided through BK... or do you negotiate with the outlook that you can get something better if you negotiate now, as opposed to waiting? The rumor mill has been, and will always bend the way each of you feel about the issues. However, remember one thing... you have a voice, but more importantly... a vote.... Don't allow yourselves to be talked into, or swayed by others... make up your own mind on what is right for you... PERIOD...

Please also bear in mind one thing... And don't take this the wrong way... "YOU ARE JUST FLIGHT ATTENDANTS"... You are an essential part of the big mechanism that makes up an airline... However... you must be able to stand on your own two feet... And the only time I can remember the group as a whole doing that was the MAY DAY massacre back in the 80's where flight attendants flew just their block time and no other...

Unless you are willing to take a stand for yourself.... Don't patronize the public by assuming you are stronger than you are...

Just my opinion...

 

[nick]

Just a poor lowly CLT reserve. I'll vote no on the first contract just b/ c I know the company is not going to give us any more than they have to until at least multilple votes. Will continue to try to vote the current AFA leadership out of office as they are only self serving senior #########w. Vote NO TO SEPARATE. That's what the company wants so what does that tell you.

 

[galley princess]

As I read these posts I have to wonder, is it really such a surprise?

It was crystal clear from the time that the merger happened that AWA LOVED having the lowest paid employees in the airline industry.

Why would you think they would give it up?

Of COURSE they are playing this out until probably right before we're allowed to do CHAOS. They think that they'll throw us a tiny raise and those that have suffered so in the last eight years will bite and pass what is really looking to be another concessionary agreement.

FACTS:
-Separating from the pilots is a concession.

-A Lead F/A program is a concession.

-Changing/ modifying or otherwise tampering with the bidsheet is a concession.

At no time should concessions be anywhere near this agreement. No, I am not crazy about the fact that CA is negotiating for us AGAIN. However realistically that ship sailed. The only thing we have is our vote.

Here's the only way I would vote for any of this nonsense:

-A return of everything I gave up in 2002.

-A minimum of another $20/ hour for EVERY F/A, with significant raises built in.

-a bonus for signing the agreement that is five years late.

-100% sick

-Return to previous vacation time with a NEGOTIATED matrix. Not this ridiculous 9 people get vacation in August in PHL that we have now. Just who loves having all of their vacation in Jan, Feb and March and has worked for a corporation in excess of 20 years?

-If-then clauses that penalize scheduling when they mess with F/As schedules. If you re-route a F/A unfairly, then you pay her for the rest of the month to go home and stay there.

-Language to prevent forever what has happened to AWA F/As. No one should be forced to forgo a contract because it's convenient for the corporation. Working under a what? 1989 contract for 20 years? Where in the universe should that be legal?


I realize this sounds a bit excessive, but folks the fact that we gave up the workrules that we did is why we are in this mess. If we had taken the hits in the money area, we would already have a new agreement. Work rules are where the money and quality of life live. They're not getting ANYTHING else from me. The concession stand is closed.

Finally, realize that nothing is free except for the mediocre. If we wait and play this out, which we SHOULD do at this point since we're so close, CHAOS is effective but not pretty. No crew back from Tel Aviv because they were met by an AFA rep and given tickets home on DELTA. Sorry, you're flight is the subject of a labor action. No crew back from LHR, no crew back from ANC. That's how CHAOS works. The good news is, those flights are senior, and these ladies were around when the Memorial Day massacre happened. Hopefully they'll rise to the occasion and save us all. If not, we'll get what we get. Having said that I am cheered by how many F/As I am meeting with second gigs. Strength isn't cheap. Consider that and plan accordingly.

 

[beachboy]

LOVE IT! Post of the week! 100% spot on correct!

As I read these posts I have to wonder, is it really such a surprise?

It was crystal clear from the time that the merger happened that AWA LOVED having the lowest paid employees in the airline industry.

Why would you think they would give it up?

Of COURSE they are playing this out until probably right before we're allowed to do CHAOS. They think that they'll throw us a tiny raise and those that have suffered so in the last eight years will bite and pass what is really looking to be another concessionary agreement.

FACTS:
-Separating from the pilots is a concession.

-A Lead F/A program is a concession.

-Changing/ modifying or otherwise tampering with the bidsheet is a concession.

At no time should concessions be anywhere near this agreement. No, I am not crazy about the fact that CA is negotiating for us AGAIN. However realistically that ship sailed. The only thing we have is our vote.

Here's the only way I would vote for any of this nonsense:

-A return of everything I gave up in 2002.

-A minimum of another $20/ hour for EVERY F/A, with significant raises built in.

-a bonus for signing the agreement that is five years late.

-100% sick

-Return to previous vacation time with a NEGOTIATED matrix. Not this ridiculous 9 people get vacation in August in PHL that we have now. Just who loves having all of their vacation in Jan, Feb and March and has worked for a corporation in excess of 20 years?

-If-then clauses that penalize scheduling when they mess with F/As schedules. If you re-route a F/A unfairly, then you pay her for the rest of the month to go home and stay there.

-Language to prevent forever what has happened to AWA F/As. No one should be forced to forgo a contract because it's convenient for the corporation. Working under a what? 1989 contract for 20 years? Where in the universe should that be legal?


I realize this sounds a bit excessive, but folks the fact that we gave up the workrules that we did is why we are in this mess. If we had taken the hits in the money area, we would already have a new agreement. Work rules are where the money and quality of life live. They're not getting ANYTHING else from me. The concession stand is closed.

Finally, realize that nothing is free except for the mediocre. If we wait and play this out, which we SHOULD do at this point since we're so close, CHAOS is effective but not pretty. No crew back from Tel Aviv because they were met by an AFA rep and given tickets home on DELTA. Sorry, you're flight is the subject of a labor action. No crew back from LHR, no crew back from ANC. That's how CHAOS works. The good news is, those flights are senior, and these ladies were around when the Memorial Day massacre happened. Hopefully they'll rise to the occasion and save us all. If not, we'll get what we get. Having said that I am cheered by how many F/As I am meeting with second gigs. Strength isn't cheap. Consider that and plan accordingly.

 

[OP Taylor]

I just thought I would toss in my own two cents... As you know I retired a few months ago... Yet still keep in touch with all my friends...

To truly understand the frustration, you must understand yourselves. When you elected your MEC officers, MF to speak of, you elected him knowing what was at stake, aware of the constitution and bilaws governing his officership, aware that the MEC would put out applications to offer positions for the negotiating committee, and aware that the LEC presidents would decide who was put into place. You knew that right?, If you didn't, then you truly don't know your contract and bilaws. Now with that said, you then look at what you wanted the negotiationg to do.

1. Eliminate the numorous side letters....

Done, the contract is being re-written word for word. No gray areas open for interpritation. Including a glossary of words and descriptions agreed to by the company and union...

2. Taking each section of the contract, and negotiating a better deal for the F/A's...

Still in the process... You see, the union is and has been negotiating with the company for years... we all know that... The company has never had to, or needed to come to the table to... Get it... The CBA isn't open for negotiating truly till 2011... Yet... many areas of the contract have been signed off by the company and union...

3. Merge the East with the West...

Unable to do so.... Can't be done until the pilots reach an agreement on the seniority list.... Then the task of negotiating their merged agreements... There is no way that is going to happen anytime soon...

So, what do you do? Do you wait for the pilots.... Do you continue operate under the contract decided through BK... or do you negotiate with the outlook that you can get something better if you negotiate now, as opposed to waiting? The rumor mill has been, and will always bend the way each of you feel about the issues. However, remember one thing... you have a voice, but more importantly... a vote.... Don't allow yourselves to be talked into, or swayed by others... make up your own mind on what is right for you... PERIOD...

Please also bear in mind one thing... And don't take this the wrong way... "YOU ARE JUST FLIGHT ATTENDANTS"... You are an essential part of the big mechanism that makes up an airline... However... you must be able to stand on your own two feet... And the only time I can remember the group as a whole doing that was the MAY DAY massacre back in the 80's where flight attendants flew just their block time and no other...

Unless you are willing to take a stand for yourself.... Don't patronize the public by assuming you are stronger than you are...

Just my opinion...

 

[cynic]

I realize this sounds a bit excessive, but folks the fact that we gave up the workrules that we did is why we are in this mess. If we had taken the hits in the money area, we would already have a new agreement. Work rules are where the money and quality of life live. They're not getting ANYTHING else from me. The concession stand is closed.

A bit excessive? I thought the pilot group had a lock on the crazy talk. I see now that I was mistaken.

 

[ebwgs]

-A Lead F/A program is a concession.

How so?