AFA Labor Discussion (Work Conditions) 7-7 -

[AstroLounge]

Very strict language about the east jumpseat eligibility. I hope it stays this way unless the f/as are allowed to ride the cockpit jumpseat.

AGREED. Unless it is a TWO WAY STREET (that means "it's Not Just about You getting on the plane") I say Hell No WAY! East- West or wherever You came from OR plan on going.

 

[flybynite]

Very strict language about the east jumpseat eligibility. I hope it stays this way unless the f/as are allowed to ride the cockpit jumpseat.

I may be wrong but I don't think f/a's are allowed flight deck jumpseat per FAR.

 

[ebwgs]

Very strict language about the east jumpseat eligibility. I hope it stays this way unless the f/as are allowed to ride the cockpit jumpseat.

I totally agree. I'm more concerned with getting a contract that speaks to the needs of US Airways flight attendants. As far as I know there are no other workgroups that have provisions in their contracts that address flight attendants concerns and issues, and I don't expect there to be. I understand the whole commuting issue, but it's not the flight attendant's concern to be negotiating any contractual language that enhances the commuting experience for any other workgroup other than US Airways flight attendants.

 

[Pi brat]

I totally agree. I'm more concerned with getting a contract that speaks to the needs of US Airways flight attendants. As far as I know there are no other workgroups that have provisions in their contracts that address flight attendants concerns and issues, and I don't expect there to be. I understand the whole commuting issue, but it's not the flight attendant's concern to be negotiating any contractual language that enhances the commuting experience for any other workgroup other than US Airways flight attendants.

The FAA will not let F/As on the cockpit jumpseat. I don't expect the FA group to fight any battles for any group, but the west pilots already have this option, so why take it away, which is what the AFA would be doing. It should absolutely only be available if there is no F/A that wants it.

 

[flybynite]

The FAA will not let F/As on the cockpit jumpseat. I don't expect the FA group to fight any battles for any group, but the west pilots already have this option, so why take it away, which is what the AFA would be doing. It should absolutely only be available if there is no F/A that wants it.

As I understand it, current west language states the pilots would be at the "back of the line" for boarding.

I think it's in our Policy and Procedures manual under the section for PHX/LAS f/a's only.

 

[hp_fa]

The responses I am reading here, essentially saying "No way Jose", to a company pilot riding a jumpseat in order to get home, or whatever, causes me to wonder why you hate your pilots so much? That isn't flame bait, it is a serious question reduced to its nuts and bolts.

As I said in my previous post, on the few times a pilot rode a FA seat on one of my flights they were always gentlemen and considerate. They also unanimously helped us tidy the cabin at the end of the flight just to do more than say thank you.

 

[ebwgs]

The FAA will not let F/As on the cockpit jumpseat. I don't expect the FA group to fight any battles for any group, but the west pilots already have this option, so why take it away, which is what the AFA would be doing. It should absolutely only be available if there is no F/A that wants it.

Hey PI, once again I'm more concerned about what the company may be taking away from the F/A group than I am concerned about--as you put it--what AFA would be taking away from the pilots. The AFA's negotiations aren't focusing on taking or giving anything away to the pilots nor should they be. The F/A negotiations are all about us flight attendants trying to negotiate a better standard of living for our workgroup, just as the travails concerning the pilots concern the standard of living that affects the pilot group only. Our SOLE purpose should be centered on our getting the best possible contract only. You have your own union to negotiate for you. If the FAA precludes flight attendants from the jumpseat then so be it. If our contract prevents pilots from riding the F/A jumpseat then so be it. I no more expect USAPA to lobby for us riding the cockpit jumpseat than USAPA should expect AFA lobbying for pilots on the F/A jumpseat via our CBA. And any absolutes dictated by other work groups as to their perks stated in the f/a CBA are out of line and have no business being seriously discussed. A flight attendant j/s should no more "absolutely be available if there is no F/A that wants it" than if there is if a cockpit seat absolutely available to a flight attendant if no pilot wants it.

 

[PITbull]

"Oh dear My dear"....You misapprehend a great truth.

On the East the COMPANY DOES NOT BUILD THE LINES! The lines are built by the USAPA scheduling commitee, formerly the ALPA scheduling committee. This has been going on for longer than I have been here and that is approaching 25 years. The company builds the trips and the Union builds the lines.

An ALPA study done many years ago found that the scheduling commitee had become so good that almost everyone who bid with some reasonable consideration of their seniority would have a highg probability of getting their 4 choice as a last result. It means the commitee had a very good idea of what the pilots wanted and that there was something for everyone.

The East flight attendants bid the same block numbers as the pilots. In this methodology the employees of this company have more control of their schedule than at almost any airline. Our fellow employess make the monthly schedules and we let the company build the trips.

If you add to this the "mee-too" clause and all the many benefits that accrue from it you have a powerful combination.

I would say to any flight attendant, don't sign off on any contract TA until the FAA puts out the new rest rules. You need to see what you will be giving up. This mad charge by some to get a deal when they can't even give the membership a coherent response to what the deal is smells bad.

If PBS is so great you need to have major road shows to explain why it is. Out East you will be looking at Flight Attendants who have some of the best scheduling contractual language in the industry and a me too clause that guarantees improvements and you guys are selling snake oil. You say you like because it works in Phoenix.

Only 25% to 40% of Phoenix commutes. In the East the estimation is now closer to 70%.
The company and the union have not been forthcomming in explaining this system and they will have to before East crew members will sign off on any changes.

Al,

You are absolutely right on all points. Many here just don't get it. The company WANTS PBS, and those who walk down this road will be giving up a whole hell of alot...only the very very few on the TOP of the seniority list will make out...the rest will not!!!

 

[BoeingBoy]

Hey PI, once again I'm more concerned about what the company may be taking away from the F/A group than I am concerned about--as you put it--what AFA would be taking away from the pilots.

I can appreciate what you're saying - AFA should be negotiating for a better FA contract. But why negotiate to take something away from another work group that doesn't take anything away for the FA's? If you think the company will give the FA's something of value in exchange I can understand that, but I suspect that the company sees the jumpseat as a no-cost item and may actually like it because it helps commuters get to work.

Maybe it is time for the pilots to negotiate that benefit - that I can also understand.

Jim

 

[PITbull]

Allowing to build lines to 110 will mean people holding lines before PBS will now be on reserve...those on reserve will be on the street. PBS will result in furloughs....and I'm not the only one that thinks that...there was a big discussion about it between some east FA's when I was in the PHL crew room about a week ago.

What are our west negotiators smoking? I like the fact that now, if a trip or a flight cancels I get guaranteed that time. With the new scheduling section. I do not. Lisa and Deb gave away our GT on flight/trip cancellations. YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME! :angry: I wonder what else those two are going to give away? I shudder to think.

With all due respect, go sell your product somewhere else. Those of us on here ain't buying it!

YES! And this is why the company want this...less f/as on the property. Carol has always pushed for this because it has value to the company. She negotiates giving up employees for something else senior folks can use, which is their prime choice of building their own lines.

Don't give in to this; and please don't accept PBS.

 

[PITbull]

Yes....you are missing something.

PBS is a software program that so far at it's best works for the top 25% or so. And the only reason we don't have it now is because the union has prevented the company from imposing it for the simple reason that they aren't willing to buy the right program that doesn't violate our contract parameters.

Anything thing else is a violation of our current contract.

You don't understand the flexibility of our old "CATCREW" and SAP programs. They do require more input but they get the job done. And because of this...the more junior people aren't stuck with bullshit trips. These "old" programs are more friendly for the junior f/a's. And they were built that way for a reason.
They preserve jobs.

They preserve jobs. This is why CATCREW/SAP should stay in place!!!!!

 

[PEST-STRIP]

I can appreciate what you're saying - AFA should be negotiating for a better FA contract. But why negotiate to take something away from another work group that doesn't take anything away for the FA's? If you think the company will give the FA's something of value in exchange I can understand that, but I suspect that the company sees the jumpseat as a no-cost item and may actually like it because it helps commuters get to work.

Maybe it is time for the pilots to negotiate that benefit - that I can also understand.

Jim

JIm, With all due respect, the exclusivity of the flight attendant Jumpseat has been longstanding. You mention that maybe the f/a's are waiting for something in return. I agree with many on this forum that if and when the FAA allows the flight attendants to ride on the flight deck jumpseat, then and ONLY then would it bring consideration to this issue. Jim, you know how this company operates. It's no big secret. Give them an inch and they will take a mile. The loss of the exclusivity will only open the door for the company. Next they will want to put a mechanic on the jumpseat to get them into position in a downline station , carrying spare parts etc , etc. God forbid they block a seat and lose revenue. You know how this management operates. They will VIOLATE, VIOLATE AND VIOLATE this agreement and tell us to grieve later. We all know what that means. Two years later, NO PUNITIVE DAMAGES, END OF STORY. HP_FA asks why we hate pilots so much? Hello????? The lost love of pilots is between the East pilot group and the West pilot group. Why would there be petitions circulating among the East F/a's who are absolutely adamant about not separating from the pilots? Does this indicate the East flight attendants hate pilots? I think not.

In another post you mention maybe the pilots need to negotiate this with the company. This jumpseat is the flight attendant jumpseat and we will NEVER give that up. The only shot is if the company goes to Flores. We all know Santa Flores has been coming early this year by the sounds of the new concessions. If the company goes down that road they will never put these two groups together, just another excuse not to merge these two airlines. With all due respect Jim, I hope you understand the position of the flight attendants. This is not personal.

 

[ebwgs]

The responses I am reading here, essentially saying "No way Jose", to a company pilot riding a jumpseat in order to get home, or whatever, causes me to wonder why you hate your pilots so much? That isn't flame bait, it is a serious question reduced to its nuts and bolts.

As I said in my previous post, on the few times a pilot rode a FA seat on one of my flights they were always gentlemen and considerate. They also unanimously helped us tidy the cabin at the end of the flight just to do more than say thank you.

We don't hate our pilots at all. Pilots have always had the option of riding the cockpit jumpseat, whether on their airline or on other carriers. Their options for getting to and from work have always been greater than flight attendants. And although there are now reciprocal jumpseat privileges on other carriers for flight atttendants, they don't offer the same total access to the F/A jumpseat as reciprocal flight deck jumpseat privileges offer to the pilots.

 

[BoeingBoy]

JIm, With all due respect, the exclusivity of the flight attendant Jumpseat has been longstanding.

On the East side, as I understand it. Not so exclusive on the West side it seems, which is the crux of the issue. The choice isn't whether to negotiate for the pilots or not. The choice is to give the East pilots a benefit or take a benefit from the West pilots. No matter which way you go you're negotiating for the pilots.

If you really are worried about the company violating the cabin jumpseat access policy, is the company not as likely to violate any "only for FA's" language? What logic is there in saying that they'd violate language giving pilots access but wouldn't dare violate language allowing only FA's on the cabin jumpseat.

If this is a case of "we can't ride in their jumpseat so why should they be able to ride ours" is it safe to assume that AFA will be negotiating language eliminating the special interline non-rev deals that some stations negotiate with their peers at other airlines serving that station. After all, why should agents/rampers/whoever at ABC get a better interline non-rev deal on airline X than you or I?

I don't really care which way AFA goes - it won't affect me either way. I'm just having a hard time understanding the desire to take something away from another group (the West pilots) if it doesn't hinder the FA's access to the cabin jumpseat.

Jim

 

[AstroLounge]

We don't hate our pilots at all. Pilots have always had the option of riding the cockpit jumpseat, whether on their airline or on other carriers. Their options for getting to and from work have always been greater than flight attendants. And although there are now reciprocal jumpseat privileges on other carriers for flight atttendants, they don't offer the same total access to the F/A jumpseat as reciprocal flight deck jumpseat privileges offer to the pilots.

EXACTLY My Point! There is NO Hate/ Animosity here..........HP FA seems like a real Drama Queen that wants to stir up trouble at every opportunity that presents itself. What we don't need is ONE more person standing in the way (and YES they DO) during the boarding process or trying to get the service underway and having someone interfering with the process. This is NOT directed at any pilots or F/A's in particular but many that commute (as do I) just don't get it "TO STAY the Hell Out of The Way and Don't Meddle". Some people just Can't grasp the concept.........YOU are NOT Working THIS FLIGHT and I don't want/need or appreciate YOUR INTERFERENCE. Period.