AFA Labor Discussion (Work Conditions) 7-7 -

[HP2USFA]

For the love of Pete... enough with the Regional crap.

Grow the hell up and move on already. I was with you RIGHT up until that crap came out. Enough with the East vs. West crap. We're both standing against the COMPANY. Figure it out already.

 

[flybynite]

Tell your cohorts at the O.K. Corral, Ms. Desert Queen, that they need to educate the membership along the way...I mean, to let them know what the company is wanting from the group and how the negotiations are going with that section that is OPEN.

You seem to be very privy on what Mike Flores is doing and how allegedly he appears to be working from your perspective.

What gives, pray tell...? What's your angle? Trumping up votes and support for a washed out union rep???

I bet my bottom $$ that you do not have any clue about the East contract language and at what price it will cost the f/as to negotiate out the "me too". It appears your guage on what's good or not is what Mike Flores tells you...(unless of course, your one of the knuckleheads at the table) In Mike Flores' best, he can't negotiate sqattttoola!

I know, I've been there, up close and personal with his tactics. He can't even talk his way out to those who do know what the hell IS going on. He'd make stupid folks feel like Florida's "swamp land" is prime building property.
He only looks good to the dump f#$% who just don't know diddly squat.

This company is going to make you think you got something for the priceless, one-of-a-kind "me too" language, and then they are going to pull the rug from all of you AND PUT THE PLACE UP FOR SELL!!!!!!!!

Why????? Because the "me too" is way TOOOOO expensive for any airline to keep...that's why they want it. Haven't you figured that out yet????? It has been on the chopping block in every single negotiations that I know of in the past 30 years.

USAirways is NOT a stand-alone-airline and acquiring Regional America West does not cut the mustard seed in ths current Airline industry environment.

Education and knowledge is a powerful thing.

And unfortunately there are those who think this about who signs who into the hotel. (roll eyes)

 

[hp_fa]

Pitbull,

I agree that the last sentence of your prior post was uncalled for. Whether or not prior US Airways folks liked the idea of making a deal with AWA is no longer very relevant. Also, as I recall, the prior US Airways didn't have many options available to it in early 2005 and certainly none which would have kept the employees employed as a group with rights other than being added to the bottom of some other airline's seniority list.

 

[Travelpro72]

Pitbull I don't want to stand around and wait for the pilots to hash out their differences before we iron out a contract but you are 1000% correct. The "ME-TOO" is an extremely expensive piece of the contract and the company wants it for A REASON! ! ! I think flexibility would improve considerably without it but ya know what, I'm not willing to give the company ONE DAMN THING! Well, certainly not something of that size for marginal language in return? No thanks.

Op PS as for the regional comment she made I'm quite sure she was referring to those actually driving the train. Let's call a spade a spade. We certainly ARE standing as one against the company but have some real wackadoodles leading us. Sorry.

 

[PITbull]

For the love of Pete... enough with the Regional crap.

Grow the hell up and move on already. I was with you RIGHT up until that crap came out. Enough with the East vs. West crap. We're both standing against the COMPANY. Figure it out already.

,

NO...you figure it out,! If you think that HP had the cream de la creme contract as your first contract, then think again. At USAirways WORST contract, was still better than the language you guys have out west and are STILL working under. The "me-too" language and scope is worth a MINT and it covers so many work rules. Has anyone told you what the $$ figure is for this??????

You should be scrutinizing what the hell is being given up!!!! Once the company gets what they want and the airline happens to get sold.. you guys will be back at the table again with another company BACK AT THE WELL.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

I would be more concerned about contract language that involves BASE CLOSING ETC., with the WEST doing 35% EAST flying how long do you think DOUG will keep PHX open, remember PIT, LAX, SAN , SFO and those saying, It will never clos!!!!!!!!!MM! A rescue from the island with a single contract, remember merger is not another word for expansion! MM!

 

[PITbull]

Pitbull,

I agree that the last sentence of your prior post was uncalled for. Whether or not prior US Airways folks liked the idea of making a deal with AWA is no longer very relevant. Also, as I recall, the prior US Airways didn't have many options available to it in early 2005 and certainly none which would have kept the employees employed as a group with rights other than being added to the bottom of some other airline's seniority list.

Who was agreeing to whom being placed on what "bottom of the list"????? You have this idea confused with something else. USAirways emerged from bankruptcy and their balance sheet was in order. If you perceive that we would have liquidated without the help of AWA, or that AWA was on solid ground themselves, I think someone has been feeding you a line of feel-good kool-aide.


HP, with all due respect, my statements have nothing to do with who liked what when where and how . There is still the issue of TWO separate contracts the f/as are working under...that is the AM WEST contract (their first ever), and that of the EAST USAirways. Those are the facts. Whether you think that citing that America West past as a regional carrier, is some how condecinding with one contract under their belt is too harsh to view, well than let's just all be very quiet about it because we are not being .... "politically correct... ?????Well let me just shut-up about the past already...

When the Board of Directors and Investors decide to SELL they don't really worry about being politically correct or not, or trying to make this group or that group "feel good".

I am trying to tell ALL the f/as to "snap out of it" already!!! And, WAKE UP to what's being negotiated out and WHY!!!!!!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

PIT, you get it, cleaning up the seniority list, base consolidation, (airline staging in progress)! SALE to follow, oops more consolidation! MM!

 

[HP2USFA]

,

NO...you figure it out,! If you think that HP had the cream de la creme contract as your first contract, then think again. At USAirways WORST contract, was still better than the language you guys have out west and are STILL working under. The "me-too" language and scope is worth a MINT and it covers so many work rules. Has anyone told you what the $$ figure is for this??????

You should be scrutinizing what the hell is being given up!!!! Once the company gets what they want and the airline happens to get sold.. you guys will be back at the table again with another company BACK AT THE WELL.

You misunderstand me.

I never once said our contract was anything other than a PoS.

I'm not speaking to the merits of scrutinizing what's being put/taken out of the contract.

I'm speaking to your derogatory comment of referring to us as a regional airline. There was NO need for it. You could get your information across without taking a potshot. No one's asking for you to be PC... but there's not need to start dishing out names. Because we weren't regional. We're not Mesa, never were and your use of it was meant to belttle us, nothing more. We all know what regional airlines are... they're feeders, they stay in a single area. AmWest was none of those things. And everyone's use of 'regional' to describe AmWest is simply an attack on our not being 'Legacy' or have hundreds of thousands of years of history under our belt. It's the same old 2005-2007 crap and it needs to end.

So if you want us to listen and understand your message, perhaps you can put it accross without insulting us in the process. Concept, I know.

And for the record, as you pointed out, our contract sucks. Almost everything in it will be a gain for us. Not much to give up 🙂

In any case, I enjoy your fire and the message is a good one, just lay off the pot shots please! 🙂

 

[PITbull]

You misunderstand me.

I never once said our contract was anything other than a PoS.

I'm not speaking to the merits of scrutinizing what's being put/taken out of the contract.

I'm speaking to your derogatory comment of referring to us as a regional airline. There was NO need for it. You could get your information across without taking a potshot. No one's asking for you to be PC... but there's not need to start dishing out names. Because we weren't regional. We're not Mesa, never were and your use of it was meant to belttle us, nothing more. We all know what regional airlines are... they're feeders, they stay in a single area. AmWest was none of those things. And everyone's use of 'regional' to describe AmWest is simply an attack on our not being 'Legacy' or have hundreds of thousands of years of history under our belt. It's the same old 2005-2007 crap and it needs to end.

So if you want us to listen and understand your message, perhaps you can put it accross without insulting us in the process. Concept, I know.

And for the record, as you pointed out, our contract sucks. Almost everything in it will be a gain for us. Not much to give up 🙂

In any case, I enjoy your fire and the message is a good one, just lay off the pot shots please! 🙂

Let me put this frankly...USAirways was Allegheny and we were once a regional carrier...what on earth is bad about being a Regional carrier and having that as a history. Should we be ashamed??? Guess what? We are NOT. Its part of the history...your's more recent; ours more distant. Am I missing something here? Or, are you just being sensitive?

If that's the case, and there is shame in that, then, I apologize. 🙁

 

[HP2USFA]

Shame, no.

Your meaning is clearly different and I apologize.

Every other time 'Regional' has been tossed around here it's meant to demean AmWest as a small insignificant carrier. I'm sorry I lumped your intent in with the rest!

Carry on! 🙂

 

[PITbull]

Shame, no.

Your meaning is clearly different and I apologize.

Every other time 'Regional' has been tossed around here it's meant to demean AmWest as a small insignificant carrier. I'm sorry I lumped your intent in with the rest!

Carry on! 🙂

Ok. 🙂

 

[Furloughd4now]

And for the record, as you pointed out, our contract sucks. Almost everything in it will be a gain for us. Not much to give up

And therein lies a problem. When something does come up it may be a gain for FAs on the West (perhaps) and a concession for FAs on the East or Vice Versa.

NO concessions on EITHER side. From what I've been hearing it is both. I have the horriible feeling that many FAs will vote "just to get a contract" .... At what cost?

 

[hp_fa]

I suspect that no contract will still be better than a bad contract and the company really wants a bad contract.

 

[beachboy]

I suspect that no contract will still be better than a bad contract and the company really wants a bad contract.

I can assure you, the East group is fast coming together against this contract. While we are told to wait and see, if even a hint of what we have been told develops on issues like CSD, PREF BID (loss of jobs), Reserve ect... We will be without a contract for a while. We will vote it down and send a NEW committee back after a new member survey to negotiate.
PITBull is 100% right. We are carrying HP-AWA in our 40+ years of contract history to their 7? Not their fault but no the less a horror show.