AAnegotiations.com

[The Goose]

Career suicide? What do you call accepting a 40% paycut? As a career its already dead, the question is can we revive it?

For one, I'm not interested in reviving aviation as a career. Let them send their maintenance overseas and let the damned airplanes crash. The business yuppies will be on those planes - working people won't be able to afford plane fare

Even working at American, I've refused to fly on their aircraft for around 5 years now and I discourage those in my family from doing so.

The bright side (to me) is when all USA based airlines have gotten rid of everybody but their line people, maintenance costs will begin rising. That's what the office boys call "Free Market", I believe, not unlike the WalMart "way" in the communities they've taken over.

Bob, why you continue to respond to this guy, FrequentFlierCA, is beyond me. He's one of the group that can't stand the thought of someone making a decent living unless they have a degree and push a pencil rather than turn a wrench. You, I, and everyone else that may make a good living without a degree is someone to be knocked down "to size" and banished to the ghettos where their type needn't associate with us.

This is a war against the working class that started with the GW Bush presidency and is continuing under O'Bummer's presidency. Unfortunately, I'm afraid the American workers are much too comfortable, by design of the elite, to do anything about the problem - most just hoping "they" are "fair" to the workers.

Personally, I believe there was a good example given by the French a few hundred years ago as to methods of dealing with the oppressive elite for all the world to follow. The elite are wiser now, and allow the common man enough scraps to prevent action from being taken lest we lose those few scraps.

History is a wonderful thing - it's a shame we don't make better use of it.

 

[Skymess]

This is a war against the working class that started with the GW Bush presidency and is continuing under O'Bummer's presidency. Unfortunately, I'm afraid the American workers are much too comfortable, by design of the elite, to do anything about the problem - most just hoping "they" are "fair" to the workers.

The war on the working class started waaay before George W.

 

[Hopeful]

The war on the working class started waaay before George W.

I would say that the war started with deregulation in 1978 signed into law by Jimmy Carter. Then the long invasion was launced by reagan in 1981 when he fired the controllers...

 

[Thomas Paine]

As we come upon the holiday season with tales of Ebinezer Scrooge we see that the exploitation went on for quite quite some time before "the war" started. The founding fathers were suspicious of Corporations, and for good cause. (East India Tea Company) The limited liability attached to the owners for the actions of an entity whose sole purpose for existance is to produce wealth struck at the core of their Christian values.

Corporations, such as those that existed in England were something that the founding fathers felt needed to be wached very closely. They had to apply for permission to exist and usually had a termination date when their charter would be voided.

Less than 100 years later Corporations made tremendous advances as they exploited a law that gave African American former slaves the rights of a legal person to make Corporations legal persons. They were legal persons in nearly every way except that they could not actually cast a ballott or be incarcerated for crimes and acts of immorality. Thats around the same time "the War" Started, the Knights of Labor, the Molly Maquires and other workers groups fought for decency and against the degredation that reduced a persons toil and labor to a mere commodity to be exploited and marginalized by those who had the power and wealth to control and set wages to levels below subsistance while those who purchased the labor made huge profits off that labor.

We tend to forget that the comforts and securities that we are giving away were fought for, fought for on a Global scale throughout the Western Industrialed world and were not a byproduct of a "competitive edge" as we are lead to believe. We refuse to look at OUR history, the history of our forefathers and instead are taught about the Rockefellers, Carnaghies, Morgans and Fords. This sanitized version of history has left us vulnerable , weak and ripe for exploitation on a scale not seen in 100 years. By being taught that the advanced standard of living enjoyed by our parents was simply the inevitable result of the market and the excess created through the brilliance and efficiency of our Capitalist system and not from the many battles that took place between workers and those who exploited them, we are conditioned to accept our declining standard of living as the inevitable result of those same forces. We forgot how workers made gains therefore we are doomed to lose what was gained unless we wake up. We also forget that most of the major strikes that rocked Capitalism before labor reforms were not initiated by the leaders of unions (whose rise within the organizations often brought material comforts that the workers didnt enjoy, thus tempering their enthusiasm for action beyond words of indignation), but rather spontaneous uncontrolled acts that spread across shop floors, rail lines, mills or mines. These acts gave the leaders of workers groups the leverege to say"see I told you so, now I'll tell how you can get production going again". Sure, plenty of battles were lost, but the more frequent they became the more the Capitalists started to realize better to give a little than possibly lose it all, all being much more than the a particular company or industry but the very system itself.

We are in negotiations, have been for two years and the company wants more concessions. The RLA puts many constraints on what we can and cant do, but one thing they wont do is tell us not to abide by every word of the maintenance manual. Look for reasons why you cant get a job done instead of doing whatever it takes to get it done. Thats the only way the company will come to be aware that the workers are starting to rebel and more than anything else you must prepare to go the whole way, you must make yourselves ready to strike. If not, then accept that your life will continue on its downward trend, things will never get better unless you make it happen.

 

[AANOTOK]

Timeline and Updates

A quick summary of major and noteworthy events since the start of negotiations.

View 2008 Updates | View 2007 Updates | View 2006 Updates

December 2, 2009

"American Airlines and the Transport Workers Union Dispatch negotiating committees reconvened today in Washington, D.C. with Mediator Terri Brown.

Each committee met separately with the mediator to review their current table positions. The TWU then presented a proposal for Article 41: Benefits regarding the union’s active medical contribution rates. At first glance, it appears the union’s proposal does not recognize the current economic realities the company is facing.

The company will evaluate this proposal before the next session, which the mediator has set for the first or second week of March 2010."


Why in the world does this mediator (Terri Brown) continue to go two and three months between each negotiating session. This is a travesty and only benefits the company. :angry2: She is doing this with all the TWU represented unions.

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

What of the economic realities the employees are facing?

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

I don't think anyone would say it hasn't been very difficult for AA's mainline workforce. In fact know it has, because I'm married to one. But I think we all need to bear two things in mind: the context of the airline industry and how your peers are other legacy carriers have fared.

On the first point, the entire industry has been hammered by a "perfect storm" of obstacles, starting with 9/11 and currently with recession.

On the second, employees at Delta/Northwest, United and US Airways lost retirements, wages, and if they were shareholders their stock went to zero.

Bottom line is that the airline industry has been through a wrenching transformation this decade, and due to intensifying competition wage scales are unlikely to get back where they were in the 1990s. It's a sad reality, but an accurate one.

 

[MCI transplant]

I don't think anyone would say it hasn't been very difficult for AA's mainline workforce. In fact know it has, because I'm married to one. But I think we all need to bear two things in mind: the context of the airline industry and how your peers are other legacy carriers have fared.

On the first point, the entire industry has been hammered by a "perfect storm" of obstacles, starting with 9/11 and currently with recession.

On the second, employees at Delta/Northwest, United and US Airways lost retirements, wages, and if they were shareholders their stock went to zero.

Bottom line is that the airline industry has been through a wrenching transformation this decade, and due to intensifying competition wage scales are unlikely to get back where they were in the 1990s. It's a sad reality, but an accurate one.

<_< ------- If what you say is true, and I don't believe it is as black and white as you suggest, we will see an exodus of talent from this industry unprecedented in our time! In fact I believe that exodus has already begone! Also you will see further deterioration of quality of services!-------- Now that's the sad reality!

 

[Joe Patroni]

<_< ------- If what you say is true, and I don't believe it is as black and white as you suggest, we will see an exodus of talent from this industry unprecedented in our time! In fact I believe that exodus has already begone! Also you will see further deterioration of quality of services!-------- Now that's the sad reality!

It's been happening since 2005 when I left.

 

[MCI transplant]

It's been happening since 2005 when I left.

<_< ------ Now that's a modest statement of fact!!!

 

[eolesen]

On the first point, the entire industry has been hammered by a "perfect storm" of obstacles, starting with 9/11 and currently with recession.

On the second, employees at Delta/Northwest, United and US Airways lost retirements, wages, and if they were shareholders their stock went to zero.

Bottom line is that the airline industry has been through a wrenching transformation this decade, and due to intensifying competition wage scales are unlikely to get back where they were in the 1990s. It's a sad reality, but an accurate one.

Hmmm... step into the time machine and rewrite paragraph 2 a few times as follows...

In 1985, substitute your list of carriers with BN & CO. Fast forward two years and include FL.

In 1993, substitue your list of carriers with PA & EA. Perhaps a sympathy vote for ML. Fast forward again a few years to include TW.

In 2005, you can reinstate your list of carriers to read UA, NW, DL, and US.

Seems to me this "transformation" has been going on since 1979. Every time a recession hits, the weakest of the group get "transformed" because their cost structure was incompatible with their business model.

That's nothing more than simple economics and history repeating itself...

Take the circumstances and overlay the same situation on retail stores, and you pretty much get the same story. Both have low margins with high fixed costs...

Old time store brands like Montgomery Ward, Sears Roebuck, McCrory, Murphy, Woolworth, Gimbel, Stern, Marshall Field... All gone in name, many sucked up into Macy's, a few restructured or merged. Woolworth survives as Foot Locker, Sears wound up as a subsidiary of K-mart.

It's not inconceivable that 10 or 20 years from now, we'll be talking about the collapse of Southwest, Jetblue, or even Macy's or Walmart to some new competitor with a lower cost structure and more lucrative business model.

 

[Hopeful]

and more lucrative business model.

And what is usually the business model? Gut employees wages and benefits, eliminate pensions and outsource....sometimes with the help of a bankruptcy judge....
All while a few priviliged suit wearers get their own compensation packages increased because they made the "oh so tough decisions" to destroy the working men and women in this country.

Some business model.

 

[Bob Owens]

And what is usually the business model? Gut employees wages and benefits, eliminate pensions and outsource....sometimes with the help of a bankruptcy judge....
All while a few priviliged suit wearers get their own compensation packages increased because they made the "oh so tough decisions" to destroy the working men and women in this country.

Some business model.

Thats Capitalism defined, a sytem we pledge our lives to defend and spread across the world.

 

[MTheory]

Thats Capitalism defined, a sytem we pledge our lives to defend and spread across the world.

So Bob,

What socio-economic theory or system do you advocate?

 

[aamechntx]

The same one that Canada and most of Europe have adopted would be fine by me.