AAA ALPA Topic 8/31/07 - 9/06/07

[electricjet98]

So patiently awaiting your alternative. Personally I don't care what we change to, so long as ALPA is removed once and for all. I have said in previous posts that I would consider all options. But for now USAPA is the only public alternative to ALPA. It has my complete support!

Fraternal Union-Air Line Pilots Association

FU-ALPA

 

[USA320Pilot]

The vast majority of US Airways pilots believe the Nicolau Award violates ALPA Merger Policy and as such is invalid. Furthermore, the East pilots know they can block the list from being implemented by not agreeing to a joint contract.

Who is affected by this action? Every airline pilot in the industry because the ALPA EC knows all too well that there will not be a new contract with pay and benefit increases for any carrier in the industry until the Nicolau Award is resolved.

Nobody, I mean nobody can force the US Airways to agree to a new contract, the East pilots have the right to enter into Section 6 negotiations, and they can use the RLA to its benefit.

During this time the majority of US Airways pilots will continue to see significant movement up the seniority list with reserves becoming blockholders, narrowbody pilots becoming widebody pilots, and First Officers Captains. The majority of East pilots will see pay and DC Plan increases greater through upgrading and upward advancement than if the negotiated a joint contract.

The East attrition is real with over 200 unfilled pilot vacancies in November and December alone and 500 new hires expected in 2008.

Meanwhile, the AWA pilots will see very little upward movement, stagnation, and no pay increases, unless they enter into Section 6 negotiations. Unlike the AWA pilots the US Airways pilots endorse the AWA pilots desire to see improved pay and benefits.

The ball is in the AWA MEC's court. Either they agree to cut a deal similar to what the Rice Committee is expected to suggest next week when it meets with the JNC/MEC Officer’s with fences (maybe 15 years), furloguh protection based on DOH, and future merger protections all embodied in a joint contract or the majority of East pilots will stay status quo.

Why? The majority of East pilots get paid more by being separate than by permitting the Nicolau Award to proceed.

As I indicated earlier nobody can force the US Airways pilots to agree to a joint contract and without a joint contract the Nicolau Award cannot be implemented.

Until the AWA MEC understands this the process will not move forward because as Doug Parker said, I have talked to enough US Airways pilots to know that such a proposal would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get ratified."

And, I agree with Doug's other point that he happens "to believe that if we could get everyone together at the negotiating table, we could work something out that meets everyone’s needs – though both sides would need to move some from their increasingly hardening positions."

The challenge? The AWA pilots are the only group unwilling to talk compromise; therefore, the process is stuck, but, the East pilots continue to see career advancement and pay increases while the West pilots are stagnant and do not see pay increases.

And, as AAA73Pilot has clearly indicated USAPA is very close to filing the NMB Form 1, which will begin the process of kicking ALPA off of the property and imposing a new union on the AWA pilots around the end of the year.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

P.S. If the AWA pilots want to obtain some of the comapny's profits then why are they not seeking a Section 6 negotiation since their contract is amendable?

 

[Junebug172]

Talking to you is like talking to a wall.

Somthing about "pot" and "kettle" jumps into my head with that statement.


You clearly do not understand the resolve and determination of the majority of US Airways pilots.

I've read your history and seen your "resolve" Armageddon Boy. Do you know how many emails I get about you from your own pilots?!?! GAGger seems to be a common theme. Even HH bags on you on our boards.


I recently read an email from an AWA pilot who has held ALPA positions. He said, “I give the East an "A" for initiative.

HH? I would take that with a grain of salt.


Now the East is running with the ball

And cancelling pickets. Nice!!


The East has been on the offense since day one

And where has that gotten you? An overturned award - nope. Pay parity - nada. Successful lawsuit - bzzzt. Some offensive.


while we have played defense. We got an arbitrator's decision the East didn't like and they took a seemingly lost cause and darned if they didn't get ALPA National to refuse to present it to management. Worse, they got ALPA National to try to push us into some kind of concession in the JNC to placate the East. Moreover, the East folks even have Mr. Parker telling us in his letter we should sit down together and 'work things out so everyone is satisfied',â€￾ he noted.

Ya, that's HH's writing alright.
[/quote]

 

[aquagreen73s]

Nobody, I mean nobody can force the US Airways to agree to a new contract, the East pilots have the right to enter into Section 6 negotiations, and use the RLA to its benefit.USA320pilot

Prater has the authority to sign a CBA on behalf of all East and West pilots without a vote. Perhaps you forgot that one little detail.

the East pilots have the right to enter into Section 6 negotiations, and use the RLA to its benefit.USA320pilot

You USAPA people are in way over your heads. Anybody can follow a clearly defined NMB process and send out cards and to date that's all you've done. Please point to your past successes as a group which would indicate that not only can USAPA withstand a challenge from ALPA, but 1800 AWA pilots? After getting decimated in an arbitration, I guess we're supposed to believe that somehow the masters of East strategy can successfully defend against ALPA and 1800 AWA pilots? Whatever. You haven't seen anything yet except for a West that has been hogtied by the Rice Committee. If you think the arbitration went badly at the hands of the West, wait to see a West that is no longer muzzled by ALPA. Vote ALPA off, please.

 

[Junebug172]

Oh ya USA320Pilot, you didn't respond to one of my questions regarding pay parity. Did you get a chance to read page 2? If not, here's the part you should focus on:

II. Period of Separate Operations
A. The pilot workforces of America West and US Airways will remain separate and
covered by their respective collective bargaining agreements (the “Separate
Operations”) until Operational Pilot Integration as provided in Section VI. A.



And then I want to point out the signature page:

By:______________________________
Douglas L. Mowery, Chairman

By:______________________________
Dan Scola
US Airways Negotiating Committee



Yup, looks like you guys agreed to the TA alright.

 

[SkyRat]

I recently read an email from an AWA pilot who has held ALPA positions...

Regards,

USA320Pilot

And Chimp (sorry had to say it, just had enough from the LUGAGer SpinMaster) ,who are these pilots sending those emails? Uuu-Turn? Let us see...

One IS and HAS been the BIGGEST pot stirrer, $!@t disturber, I am AGAINST whomever is AGAINST ME - so we are at WAR, recalled MEC Chairman, DS owner, and BTW has ONE month left on the property before getting FIRED. Herbie has some GREAT points, but sometimes he goes overboard, therefore hurting all of us.

The other one... ? Well, that's just Good 'Ole Dave! AWASPA co-founder, a guy with great ideas, but sometimes w/o diplomany, and sense...

At this point, there are a LOT of Westies that are ready to dump ALPO because they have not followed their own by-laws, their OWN written set of rules.

Talking to MEC's from other properties and they are ALSO very worried due to National Actions, or lack of thereof. Prater might not survive this one, and for that matter, ALPA might not neither. A Regional Union in the near future? Interesting to see their FUTURE behavior, because their future in in their actions.

Regards,
GL

 

[electricjet98]

The challenge? The AWA pilots are the only group unwilling to talk compromise

Definition of the word "compromise", from the Merriam-Webster Dictionary:

a : settlement of differences by arbitration or by consent reached by mutual concessions b : something intermediate between or blending qualities of two different things

2 : a concession to something derogatory or prejudicial <a compromise of principles>


Since we already know the trustworthiness of the east regarding arbitration, it would be really interesting (even entertaining) to see your suggestions regarding mutual concessions.


And for someone who seems so sure of the positive outcome for the east regarding the Rice Committee, USAPA and the east actions, why all of the hysteria that the west must do something quickly or the west is doomed? Your state of frenzied panic is quite revealing of your true thoughts regarding your future. I hope to run into you someday, I understand you put on a really entertaining show!


From USA320Pilot's recent email to the west MEC:

Subject: USAPA & the AWA MEC because the ball is in the West pilot's court

Dear AWA MEC Member,

There is very little time for the AWA MEC to agree to the two ALPA Executive Council resolutions and to find a "realistic solution" to the Nicolau Award per the Rice Committee or ALPA will lose control of the representation process to the NMB this month.


USAPA is laser focused and they already have enough votes to call an election and to file the NMB Form 1. USAPA is seeking more cards so there is no dispute during the card count.


In my opinion, USAPA is gaining strength because the AWA MEC has defied ALPA International. USAPA officials and their law firm know exactly what they are doing. For example, their timing will remove the issue of furloughs because the furlough list is about to be exhausted with pilots forced to return to US Airways or resign. This permits USAPA to know exactly how many votes they need to kick ALPA "off of the East property" and impose a new union on the West pilots.


It is my understanding ALPA or USAPA needs to obtain a 50% + 1 of the votes cast during the election or a simple majority of those who vote. This would permit the winning union to immediately represent both the East and West pilots, therefore; the East and West pilots would continue to have union representation from the day USAPA is born.


The East pilots will be the “majorityâ€￾ negotiator and the West pilots would become the “minorityâ€￾ negotiator -- with the parties free to set their own constitution and by-laws and merger policy.


If the West pilots (and the East pilots) prefer to keep ALPA on the property then I believe the AWA MEC must very quickly agree to seek a "realistic solution" to the Nicolau Award problem per the Rice Committee or face union "imposition" before Christmas.


In conclusion, I believe the AWA MEC has mislead the AWA pilots regarding the East pilot resolve, the East pilot support of the US Airways MEC, and USAPA's strength, organization, and resolve.


Time is short and either a deal is cut for a new seniority integration, which could be something like Crew Base fences (not necessarily 20 year's like Northwest & Republic), shared growth, furlough protection based on DOH, and future merger protections with all of this embodied in a new joint contract or USAPA will likely become the new bargaining agent for both the East and West pilots before the end of the year.


I believe by now we all recognize there is a major dispute between the East and West pilots. It is my hope that ALPA, the Company, the East MEC, and the West MEC can immediately reach an accord so everybody interested in the success of US Airways can move forward, but make no mistake, the ball is now clearly in the West pilot's court because the clock is ticking...



Fraternally,



XXXX XXXX

LGA A320 Captain

 

[luvn737s]

Why compromise when you can extort?

 

[luvn737s]

I would expect relentless recalls of all elected USAPA officials during their tenure punctuated by representation elections. USAPA will be gagged and hogtied by those they disenfranchise.

 

[aquagreen73s]

I would expect relentless recalls of all elected USAPA officials during their tenure punctuated by representation elections. USAPA will be gagged and hogtied by those they disenfranchise.

The internal procedures you speak of are just a sliver of the reality USAPA faces. There will be an entire aresenal of claims against USAPA should they they try to cram down a reorganized seniority list - claims that would be prohibitively expensive to defend against. The choice is theirs. Once again, Chip and his gang are living in a half baked reality. The arbitration was a gentlemanly game of chess. Remove ALPA from the picture and they'll be seeing a West like never before. Again...please vote ALPA off the property.

 

[Richard]

An open note to Junebug172 and USA320Pilot.

This is a final warning to both of you to stop sniping at each other. Your remarks in this thread are aimed at each other and not at the "sides" in the dispute, and continued posting of this nature will not be tolerated.

If the sniping continues you will each have 2 weeks to cool off. Keep it on topic and off each other individually.

Also, if the personal attacks continue the thread will be closed.

Thank You!

 

[nycbusdriver]

An open note to Junebug and A320Pilot.

This is a final warning to both of you to stop sniping at each other. Your remarks in this thread are aimed at each other and not at the "sides" in the dispute, and continued posting of this nature will not be tolerated.

If the sniping continues you will each have 2 weeks to cool off. Keep it on topic and off each other individually.

Also, if the personal attacks continue the thread will be closed.

Thank You!

Better check your aim before you fire. USA320Pilot is someone very different from A320Pilot.

 

[prechilill]

Better check your aim before you fire. USA320Pilot is someone very different from A320Pilot.

It is easy to get the two confused, they are a lot alike.

 

[Richard]

To those who corrected me,

Thanks--noted and corrected.

Those to whom the post was intended know who they are however.


Let's keep on topic....

Thank you!

 

[Phoenix]

... there are a LOT of Westies that are ready to dump ALPO because they have not followed their own by-laws, their OWN written set of rules.

...
Regards,
GL

Now, now. Prater doesn't view them as rules. He has called them guidelines. So give him a little time to get it straight.