AAA ALPA Thread 9-21 to 9-27
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
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767jetz
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- Aug 20, 2002
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Great catch! This is the standard defense posture when someone is scared to admit that their house of cards is falling down on them.
OP
USA320Pilot
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- May 18, 2003
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I received a message today from an AWA pilot and his comments below are posted with his permission.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
___________
Good observations. Here are some random thoughts.
I believe it will take a miracle to save ALPO on property.
West pilots are finally softening up a bit, realizing that they'd better cut a fence deal with ALPO before there is a representation election. Reality and accuracy may finally be trumping advocacy and bashing.
McIlvenna's "Kum-Bi-Ya" web board post was not made in a vacuum. "Herndong" must have given him a look at the Wilson Polling of East pilots. He is freaked out. For five months he has been head cheerleader and chief provocateur in his demagoguery. He rallied the troops to a fervor all right, but now the damage is already done.
Ultimately I believe it will be Parker who determines whether USAPA gets elected. As much as Parker would like to put this together, I don't think he is going to come up with the money it will take to pass a TA.
On the East, the less money he offers, the taller the fences will have to be. On the West, the less money he offers, the lower the fences will have to be. And we are back to a stand-off, unless Parker is willing to loosen the purse strings, which I don't think he is willing to do.
The problem appears to be that we are entering into JNC negotiations that will include fences. And fences are a de-facto way of re-ordering the list. That is something not allowed under ALPA Merger Policy. The fence issue belongs back with the two merger committees and actually back with Nicolau. That old goat needs to hear first hand how his bizarre ruling has torn apart a company and will ultimately destroy a union. I believe Nicolau put his own ego ahead of common sense and precedent in issuing the award. The East MC dissed him. He needed to make them pay.
The real joker in all this has to be the MDA DFR lawsuit. If MDA pilots win (and so far there doesn't appear to be any indication that they won't), that win alone could either overturn the "Nic," or it could put 300+ East pilots (from Dean Colello on down) ahead of Dave O'Dell. Ironically, it might be in ALPO's best interest to lose the case and settle on a non-monetary award with the MDA pilots. Ergo: reordering the list.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
___________
Good observations. Here are some random thoughts.
I believe it will take a miracle to save ALPO on property.
West pilots are finally softening up a bit, realizing that they'd better cut a fence deal with ALPO before there is a representation election. Reality and accuracy may finally be trumping advocacy and bashing.
McIlvenna's "Kum-Bi-Ya" web board post was not made in a vacuum. "Herndong" must have given him a look at the Wilson Polling of East pilots. He is freaked out. For five months he has been head cheerleader and chief provocateur in his demagoguery. He rallied the troops to a fervor all right, but now the damage is already done.
Ultimately I believe it will be Parker who determines whether USAPA gets elected. As much as Parker would like to put this together, I don't think he is going to come up with the money it will take to pass a TA.
On the East, the less money he offers, the taller the fences will have to be. On the West, the less money he offers, the lower the fences will have to be. And we are back to a stand-off, unless Parker is willing to loosen the purse strings, which I don't think he is willing to do.
The problem appears to be that we are entering into JNC negotiations that will include fences. And fences are a de-facto way of re-ordering the list. That is something not allowed under ALPA Merger Policy. The fence issue belongs back with the two merger committees and actually back with Nicolau. That old goat needs to hear first hand how his bizarre ruling has torn apart a company and will ultimately destroy a union. I believe Nicolau put his own ego ahead of common sense and precedent in issuing the award. The East MC dissed him. He needed to make them pay.
The real joker in all this has to be the MDA DFR lawsuit. If MDA pilots win (and so far there doesn't appear to be any indication that they won't), that win alone could either overturn the "Nic," or it could put 300+ East pilots (from Dean Colello on down) ahead of Dave O'Dell. Ironically, it might be in ALPO's best interest to lose the case and settle on a non-monetary award with the MDA pilots. Ergo: reordering the list.
Tiger 1050
Veteran
- Aug 4, 2007
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QUOTE DELETED BY MODERATOR-- STOP reposting entire posts in your quotes-- ESPECIALLY when you are responding to a post IMMEDIATELY above your response.
Trading e-mails with H.H. again eh? Yeah he really has the "pulse" of things going on. I believe he was on the west webboaeds just yesterday claiming the EC would not force Prater to forward the list...
You'd do youself more good if you stopped talking to him or anyone at U-turd...
Trading e-mails with H.H. again eh? Yeah he really has the "pulse" of things going on. I believe he was on the west webboaeds just yesterday claiming the EC would not force Prater to forward the list...
You'd do youself more good if you stopped talking to him or anyone at U-turd...
OP
USA320Pilot
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- May 18, 2003
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- #51
Everybody on the East side of the pilot group knew it would be very difficult to get the Nicolau Award thrown out. I was initially surpirsed that the Award was forwarded, but it appears the EC is trying to move the process along and I understand they still want a compromise through the JNC.
The US Airways MEC is holding a conference call right now that began at 1:00 pm EDT today, with every major player (including ALPA National Attorneys) participating. Expect a Special East MEC meeting for strategy in the next couple of days, possibly as early as Monday.
Meanwhile, the ball remains in the AWA MEC's court. If they do not budge and negotiate a compromise then USAPA is almost guaranteed to become the new collective bargaining agent, which I believe John McIlvenna clearly understands. It's too bad, then again maybe it's not, that it took so long for McIlvenna and the AWA MEC to figure this out.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
The US Airways MEC is holding a conference call right now that began at 1:00 pm EDT today, with every major player (including ALPA National Attorneys) participating. Expect a Special East MEC meeting for strategy in the next couple of days, possibly as early as Monday.
Meanwhile, the ball remains in the AWA MEC's court. If they do not budge and negotiate a compromise then USAPA is almost guaranteed to become the new collective bargaining agent, which I believe John McIlvenna clearly understands. It's too bad, then again maybe it's not, that it took so long for McIlvenna and the AWA MEC to figure this out.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
prechilill
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- Nov 28, 2002
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MOD NOTE: Using the real name of a poster without their permission is not permitted.
The bomb has left the bomb bay and is in transit to the ground. What else is there to strageically plan at this point?
Regards,
Prechilill
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
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- #53
Let's see.....
- A compromise through the JNC was one of the EC's original options
- The East MEC (and USA320Pilot) wasn't interested in compromise through the JNC
- East JNC negotiators were withdrawn from the JNC process
- The East MEC has a standing resolution not to participate in JNC talks absent pay parity
And whose court is the ball in........
Jim
lynyrdskynyrd
Veteran
- Apr 22, 2005
- 1,182
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I wonder which west pilot USA320pilot got that email from. The wingnut? The numbnut? Or perhaps the peakaboo?
electricjet98
Senior
We've been telling you all along that it was just a matter of time. I'm sure the EC would love to see us compromise; it would make their and Rice's job much easier. Problem is, compromise is a two-way street and that requires the east to find a new map.
A Special East MEC meeting for strategy; an oxymoron if I've ever heard one! Kind of like Military Intellegence!
Yeah, it's clearly evident that the AWA MEC hasn't thought this through, at all. I mean, just look at their history. One setback after another, one nasty surprise after another. Their track record is truely appalling.
Do you ever listen to any of your opponent's voices...or just the voices in your head?
Meanwhile, perhaps you may wish to comment on one of your earlier statements that is certain to go down as one of the many gems in USA320Pilot's postings:
"Separately, it is my understanding things went very bad for the West pilots at today’s EC meeting.
Regards,
USA320Pilot"
No comment? Didn't think so.
The gift that keeps on giving!
electricjet98
Senior
OP
USA320Pilot
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- May 18, 2003
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Electric,
USA320pilot said: "Separately, it is my understanding things went very bad for the West pilots at today’s EC meeting."
Electric said: "No comment? Didn't think so."
USA320Pilot comments: I guess that is a matter of perspective. Yesterday AWA MEC Chairman John McIlvenna said, "I will say that the hard work has yet to come. I fully expect to be in a representation election in a matter of days."
Electric, is that good or bad news, which the EC has helped create?
Regards,
USA320Pilot
USA320pilot said: "Separately, it is my understanding things went very bad for the West pilots at today’s EC meeting."
Electric said: "No comment? Didn't think so."
USA320Pilot comments: I guess that is a matter of perspective. Yesterday AWA MEC Chairman John McIlvenna said, "I will say that the hard work has yet to come. I fully expect to be in a representation election in a matter of days."
Electric, is that good or bad news, which the EC has helped create?
Regards,
USA320Pilot
lynyrdskynyrd
Veteran
- Apr 22, 2005
- 1,182
- 558
None of the above; Fuzznut...the guy with none on top!
That would be the wingnut, although fuzznut works too. I would imagine those are two of the kinder nicknames floating around out there. He is a piece of work.
E
EastUS
Guest
LMAO...if it's a "bomb"....how's that work out with being "fair".."no windfalls"...etc ?
Ya' know?..when you guys arent' carefull...even you will admit the truth, even if wholly unintentionally."...a constant source of amusement"
Phoenix
Veteran
- Apr 16, 2003
- 8,584
- 7,430
"...a constant source of amusement"
Indeed they are. Now we will see if a majority of the East will ensure delivery of the bomb. Getting pimped by ALPO is one thing.. Getting pimped by the guys in your own foxhole..
The CLT minded pilots have some real sole searching to do. The fact that over 500 or so more guys on the bottom of the list can vote now after being tossed under the buss by CLT types gives some hope that things will not be the same.
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