AA "Why You Fly" TWU Style

[AMFAMAN]

If half of you could channel your anger into something constructive, you'd be filthy rich and could tell AA to kiss your a_s_s !

[post="252891"][/post]​

Working on it....about 4 more years to go.

 

[AAquila]

IT'S OVER......THAT'S IT........THE OLD LADY SANG......LET'S GO HOME.

WE DIDN'T STAND UP WITH PATCO AGAINST REAGAN <_< .

WE LOSE :angry: , THE PASSENGER WINS .

SAY.. GOOD NIGHT ALICE. B)

 

[goingboeing]

IT'S OVER......THAT'S IT........THE OLD LADY SANG......LET'S GO HOME.

WE DIDN'T STAND UP WITH PATCO AGAINST REAGAN <_< .

WE LOSE :angry: , THE PASSENGER WINS .

SAY.. GOOD NIGHT ALICE. B)

[post="252952"][/post]​

What does the Patco strike have to do with the problems in today's airline business?
How would you feel if your military went on strike and refused to obey the president's orders?After all, each soldier takes a sworn oath to obey the orders of the president.The Patco members had taken a SWORN OATH not to strike as part of their conditions for employment.I as an airline employee have not taken a sworn oath not to strike.

It's over because the unions are more interested in the SELF PRESERVATION of MONEY than the best long term interests of their members.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

I absolutely hate you and people like you. I hope you were proud of yourself, you probably ran off 10 future customers. You union bastard!!!!!!!!!!!

[post="252524"][/post]​

1 flyer, you say I'm a "union bastard"? Why? Because I want my profession to belong to a craft and democratic union that believes in democracy & accountability for ALL union officials?

You also say, "I hope you were proud of yourself, you probably ran off 10 future customers." Let's get something straight right from the start OK? First, I am PROUD to be a skilled AMT. I work side by side with some of the industry's best as far as aircraft maintenance goes. I am NOT proud to belong to an industrial union that cares NOTHING about my profession's craft and future.

Did I run off 10 or more potential future customers? Ask Carnac. I did NOT set off to Starbucks with the intention of talking to anyone about the airlines. I almost never go to Starbucks but this particular morning I did. Did I purposely time my place in line so I would be infront of an AA F/A? No. I simply said hello and asked the common question, given the situation/scenario, of where she was flying to.

She was the one who stated that she hated short turns with little or no sleep. She was the one who stated that she would "write it up" when she got home. Did customers care? This F/A stated the facts. She was unhappy with the situation. It was the customer/passenger in front of us that inquired as to where home was. The F/A said NY I said, "Anywhere but here." (Meaning work.)
I stated FACTS to this passenger. I also stated that OTHER airlines send maintenance work to CHINA & SINGAPORE. I stated that indeed, I have taken unnecessary pay cuts and benefit cuts with NO EQUAL SHARE from management. I never raised my voice or gave the impression that ANY aircraft was unsafe. Just the opposite. But then again, a coward such as yourself is unable to read and comprehend the written language.
I went on to say that as bad as things are right now that the skilled professionals in my craft & class would rather LEAVE the industry than allow an unsafe aircraft fly. But you miss the point. You would prefer that we, meaning AA employees, should be happy and smile AND FORGET everytime we are lied to. Everytime we are blamed for doing our job and getting a NEGOTIATED wage and benefits for that job we should accept that blame. I'm the "union bastard"? Quite the opposite. I believe in a craft union and I will fight for such. I will also tell the truth when asked.

Now as for hating people, go ahead and hate me when you're at 32,000 feet. Hate me at V1 rotation. Hate me when your aircraft has a maintenance issue at departure and I come out to repair the problem. Hell, hate me because I'm an AMT CC. I could care less. But your hate is misdirected. But you already know that, don't you.

Perhaps you should "hate" greedy, inept, lieing management and union officials? Maybe you should hate your inability to see the truth in my post? Go ahead and hate yourself because you are a drone who will accept concession after concession with nothing in return but more concessions.

Me? I'll hate coffee. I got hot chocolate after I "ran off 10 future customers".

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

This is stupidest f-ing thing i've ever heard of in my life. Why the hell did they deserve 26 weeks? The company is losing billions and you want AA to just hand out 26 weeks of pay just for the hell of it. The stupidity and hypocrisy of it is incredible. If a member of management got the 26 weeks you'd scream bloody murder, but because he's a CC he Deserves it. Incredible.

[post="252525"][/post]​

Once again you post an ignorant comment. Before calling me a "union bastard" educate yourself a little, OK?

These two AMTs were given the opportunity to retire early and receive 13 weeks pay EACH if they did. Did they deserve this pay? Yes, if they were offered it.

Do I want the company to "just hand out 26 weeks of pay just for the hell of it"? No. But if the company, or ANYONE, offers something and then goes back on their word something is wrong.

Where is the stupidity and hypocrisy? Did I ever state that because these two individuals are AMT CCs they deserve this pay? No. Please post where I have. I'll wait.

My point was to show how my profession is given no respect. AMTs did not go to AA and ask for 13 weeks pay EACH if they took a Stand-in-Stead. The company came to us. And once again the company lied.

May I suggest you take some English classes to help your reading AND comprehension abilities?

 

[Buck]

1 flyer, you say I'm a "union bastard"? Why? Because I want my profession to belong to a craft and democratic union that believes in democracy & accountability for ALL union officials?

You also say, "I hope you were proud of yourself, you probably ran off 10 future customers." Let's get something straight right from the start OK? First, I am PROUD to be a skilled AMT. I work side by side with some of the industry's best as far as aircraft maintenance goes. I am NOT proud to belong to an industrial union that cares NOTHING about my profession's craft and future.

Did I run off 10 or more potential future customers? Ask Carnac. I did NOT set off to Starbucks with the intention of talking to anyone about the airlines. I almost never go to Starbucks but this particular morning I did. Did I purposely time my place in line so I would be infront of an AA F/A? No. I simply said hello and asked the common question, given the situation/scenario, of where she was flying to.

She was the one who stated that she hated short turns with little or no sleep. She was the one who stated that she would "write it up" when she got home. Did customers care? This F/A stated the facts. She was unhappy with the situation. It was the customer/passenger in front of us that inquired as to where home was. The F/A said NY I said, "Anywhere but here." (Meaning work.)
I stated FACTS to this passenger. I also stated that OTHER airlines send maintenance work to CHINA & SINGAPORE. I stated that indeed, I have taken unnecessary pay cuts and benefit cuts with NO EQUAL SHARE from management. I never raised my voice or gave the impression that ANY aircraft was unsafe. Just the opposite. But then again, a coward such as yourself is unable to read and comprehend the written language.
I went on to say that as bad as things are right now that the skilled professionals in my craft & class would rather LEAVE the industry than allow an unsafe aircraft fly. But you miss the point. You would prefer that we, meaning AA employees, should be happy and smile AND FORGET everytime we are lied to. Everytime we are blamed for doing our job and getting a NEGOTIATED wage and benefits for that job we should accept that blame. I'm the "union bastard"? Quite the opposite. I believe in a craft union and I will fight for such. I will also tell the truth when asked.

Now as for hating people, go ahead and hate me when you're at 32,000 feet. Hate me at V1 rotation. Hate me when your aircraft has a maintenance issue at departure and I come out to repair the problem. Hell, hate me because I'm an AMT CC. I could care less. But your hate is misdirected. But you already know that, don't you.

Perhaps you should "hate" greedy, inept, lieing management and union officials? Maybe you should hate your inability to see the truth in my post? Go ahead and hate yourself because you are a drone who will accept concession after concession with nothing in return but more concessions.

Me? I'll hate coffee. I got hot chocolate after I "ran off 10 future customers".

[post="253881"][/post]​

Union Bastard?

Hate?

Surely a Rule 32 violation!

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Oneflyer,

I have read some of your posts and am dissapointed in some of your opinions upon our Unionized employees at AA, but you need to understand that not all of us are as bad as you perceive. In response to the "idiot", you have replied to. He is not "Union"...! He is an "elitist", one who champions the fact that he is an associate member of a "rogue association", called amfa..!!!! He would prefer that AA go into bankruptcy and decimate your job, as well as mine...!!!! Now this "fool" is taking his complaints to our passengers on his own accord...

He is either a "idiot or a martyr", only time will tell :blink:

------------------------------------
amfa: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

[post="252538"][/post]​

hss, attempting to preach your cowardice still? Some people never learn.

"Idiot" and "Fool" are two of the most used words in the twu. That is because these words sum up EXACTLY the qualities of a twu international offical. (That's an unelected official of course.)

I am not an elitist. I am a skilled and professional Aircraft Maintenance Technician. What is there about this that gets your skirt all in a bunch? Because I wish to belong to a Craft & Democratic union for AMTs, much the same way Pilots and Flight Attendants have Craft & Democratic unions for themselves, makes me an "elitist"?

I champion the fact I am an associate member of a "rogue association" makes me an "elitist"? No, it simply means that I believe strongly enough in a craft & democratic union to state my identity so those reading my posts know who I am. Unlike yourself who uses an alias while supporting an undemocratic, industrial union.

My job is decimated because I want AA to go into bankruptcy? No, my job is decimated because of concessions, I voted no to while being lied to about shared sacrifice, accept "without further ratification" by an unelected twu atd sell out.

The only "fool" I see is some coward calling herself highspeed steel. h34r:

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

I have read some of your posts and am dissapointed in some of your opinions upon our Unionized employees at AA, but you need to understand that not all of us are as bad as you perceive. In response to the "idiot", you have replied to.

I'm sure that you are right, I wouldn't lump everyone in with MacTern and AMFAMAN, but I will list a couple of things that drive me crazy about unions and I'll let you or anyone else enlighten me on why they make sense.

1. The idea that the company owes you something. That because you work hard and have stayed at the company a long time the company should give you something out of the ordinary.

2. The idea that the union and the company can never work together, that the relationship should always be adversarial. If the union isn't fighting the company they must have "sold out."

3. Telling customer how bad your job sucks. No one cares! All you do is drive customers away, why would anyone ever want to do this? IT will NOT improve your situation.

4. The idea that because you work in the operation you deserve anything AA makes.

5. The idea that management is stealing from you and making millions. AA's upper management gets paid about as little as any major company, they all could leave for better salaries and for the most part their stock options are worthless. If they're just interested in money why don't they leave?

[post="252558"][/post]​

1 flyer, you can't "lump everyone" with myself and AMFAMAN. That is because those who believe in a craft and democratic union that believe in accountability for AMTs are not accepted or wanted in the INDUSTRIAL & UNDEMOCRATIC twu. The philosophy of the twu is protect the dues inflow at all costs. Even at the expense of the AMT's profession. Where as the AMFA believes in fighting for AMTs and not against them. AMFA believes the union works FOR the members and not the other way around.

Now, as for your asking to be enlightened.

1) Yes, the company does "owe" us something. We negotiated (This term is used loosely when used in the same sentence with the twu.) wage and benefits in exchange for services provided. No more no less. The fact that a person remains at a company for a long period carries a certain value. It is called seniority. This is basic knowledge in the airlines. Where do you invent that anyone is demanding for more than what is negotiated?

2) The company & union can work together. Just look at the twu and AA. Never have two bed partners been combined in aviation's history. If being "confrontational" means fighting for the membership's benefit and future then the twu is NOT "confrontational".
The twu has "sold out" because they don't fight and lie to the members.

3) Why should the public NOT care about how bad conditions are for employees? You most certainly are a twu stool. Typical twu mentality. Forget how bad your union representation is. Just be lucky you have a job and pay your dues. What exactly will improve our situation? Definitely not remaining with the twu.

4) Yes, I do deserve what is owed me for my services. It is called capitalism. If you want to do nothing and get paid for it remain in the twu.

5) What a moron. You must be thanked for this last kernel of knowledge. You think other airlines want the greedy inept management we have here at AA? They have carbon copies of these type themselves.

 

[Bob Owens]

goingboeing,Mar 6 2005, 12:16 AM]
What does the Patco strike have to do with the problems in today's airline business?

The Patco debacle, and the refusal of other unions to support them, was the beginning of the end.
Lets remember that POst Office workers also have a no strike condition yet when they struck around 10 years prior to PATCO they were not fired.

How would you feel if your military went on strike and refused to obey the president's orders?

It depends on what he was telling them to do.

After all, each soldier takes a sworn oath to obey the orders of the president.


I thought there was something in there about defending the Constitution. What if the Presidents orders were clearly a violation of the Constitution?

The Patco members had taken a SWORN OATH not to strike as part of their conditions for employment.I as an airline employee have not taken a sworn oath not to strike.

What if they changed that? What if tomorrow they made you take such an oath?

It's over because the unions are more interested in the SELF PRESERVATION of MONEY than the best long term interests of their members.

True, and union people should have supported PATCO because Reagans interests were against workers. "Trickle Down" my behind![/COLOR

 

[aafsc]

The unions had a second chance with EAL. At EAL, setting up secondary picket lines at the other airlines was discussed. However, there was no support for this from the "great" AFL-CIO, the rest of the IAM, or from the employees of the other airlines. I said back then, "If we don't shut the whole thing down now, in 10 to 15 years they will come after you guys at the other airlines." Well, here it is about 16 years later and what I said came to true. With what the people at US Air just voted to accept (my counterpart there makes about $3/hr less then me, gave up vacation and sick time along with many holidays,pays more for medical, no longer has a pension plan, and gave away all but 10 cities in terms of scope) proves that "it's over". And with fuel prices, it is all but certain that US management will be back for "round 4" (round 5 for pilots). I believe that UA will seek the same from what is left of their workforce as will all the others. This republican controlled government is not doing anything about the high cost of oil because they want to totally devistate airline employees. They could release oil from the strategic reserve to lower the prices. Back then, Bush Sr. helped Lorenzo destroy EAL and it's employees for the benefit of scab CO (we asked for a PEB to investigate Lorenzo's financial and operating ways of EAL but Bush said no because Lorenzo did not want it. Of course after EAL shut down we were found by the government to be accurate in our accusations against Lorenzo). Now, Bush junior, like his father, is helping in the destruction of this industry and it's workforce by his inaction. Labor did not stick together back in 1989 and it is paying a very heavy price today. It is pretty sad when you pay unions dues but in some cases make less than a person who is non-union and does a similar job. Bob Owens is right, It is over.

 

[Oneflyer]

I have taken unnecessary pay cuts and benefit cuts with NO EQUAL SHARE from management.

Really, I guess the paycut I and everyone else in management took doesn't count.

AMTs did not go to AA and ask for 13 weeks pay EACH if they took a Stand-in-Stead. The company came to us. And once again the company lied.

Read the rules, company asks for indications of interest, then determines how many they actually need to take. Its not lying, its the way it works, we had several people in groups around me that indicated they would take the package and then were denied it.


Look, here's my point, you may think I'm an a-hole, you may think that your union and your company is screwing you and has lied to you, etc...., but you should never, ever, complain about the company to a paying passenger. It helps no one. The plane fact of the matter, for your AMFA Vs. TWU BS is that no union or management employee is going to see a raise until this airline starts to make money again and running off customers by needlessly complaining in front of them is just stupid.

 

[AMFAMAN]

The plane fact of the matter, for your AMFA Vs. TWU BS is that no union or management employee is going to see a raise until this airline starts to make money again and running off customers by needlessly complaining in front of them is just stupid.

[post="254058"][/post]​

Thanks for pointing out that our May 1 raise will not be coming. This is now hanging on the union board stamped, "ManAAgement says no more raises."

 

[Oneflyer]

Thanks for pointing out that our May 1 raise will not be coming. This is now hanging on the union board stamped, "ManAAgement says no more raises."

1. I don't claim to have any inside info, I'm just guessing.

2. If you think I give to Sh!ts what you right on some other message board, you very mistaken.

3. I don't consider 1.5% to be a raise.

 

[AMFAMAN]

3. I don't consider 1.5% to be a raise.

[post="254069"][/post]​

Yeah I know you manAAgement stooges are used to double digit raises.

Coming from the twu, 1.5% in is rather large considering we got over 6 years in 95.

 

[Oneflyer]

Yeah I know you manAAgement stooges are used to double digit raises.

Coming from the twu, 1.5% in is rather large considering we got over 6 years in 95.

Maybe I should rethink your suggestion of organizing my workgroup, that doesn't seem to be too good of an idea.