AA to recall 545 FAs and 250 pilots

[jersey777]

Unfortunately, there were approximately 1500 BOTH hired and acquired AA f/as that dropped off the list before the extension. Poor numbers were used to "broker" the deal and the APFA did NOTHING to try and protect those most junior. At this point, if those in that category had gone with other airlines, they would have enough seniority to make it unlikely that they would return to AA. BUT, they still should have the option of saying yes or no.

I am very happy to see the recent furlough recalls. I have flown with several ex-TWA'ers and every one of them have been exceptionally pleasant and enjoyable to fly with. Unfortunately, thanks to you and your "we will scab letter" the returning furloughees will be required to pay their $400 or so back dues upon their return if they haven't been paying them all along.

 

[jimntx]

Correct. One of my friends is in the group that lost his recall rights. He was in a couple classess after me. The former TWA's got their rights extended but not the AA classess after mine. APFA is not equal opportunity defender as we all know.

Byron, what you have posted is misleading. The only former TW flight attendants who had their recall extended were those who were furloughed after your friend and were still on the list at the time the law was passed. There were a number of former TW f/as who lost their recall rights along with some AA-hired furloughees.

P.S. Kirkpatrick, welcome back...again.

 

[jimntx]

I'll assume you meant April 2001... and I really did mean DOH, Jim. Not their union seniority. As you pointed out, 4/1/2001 isn't very meaningful when 2000 people have the same date...

Sorry about that. Fingers insist on typing a 2 when I meant to type a 1. I'm old. When I'm not looking, you may roll your eyes. Be grateful that I didn't type April, 1001.

 

[Emigrant]

I'm so happy to hear this news !!!
Welcome back union brothers and union sisters !!!

 

[kirkpatrick]

Be grateful that I didn't type April, 1001.

I've flown with her.

MK

 

[Bob Owens]

There are currently 1342 names on the furlough list; so, 545 will be approximately 41% of the furloughees.

It should be interesting to see the rate of how many decline. We had around 300 on the list for NY1, 90% declined recall, found other jobs and didnt want to come back. The first names on the list are the most likely to accept, the further down you go the more likley they are to decline because they had less time with the company and more than likely have more time with their new employer than they had at AA. It may be different with the FAs because they were stapled. Not sure how the pilots did it but I think we will see a high rate of "No thanks" from them as well.

We had another 20+ year guy in his 40s quit just a couple of weeks ago. Its getting harder to justify staying and the company doesnt think we will strike?!! One of my members told me that its not a question of whether he will strike or not, its more of a question of whether he will just quit or not.

 

[jimntx]

Bob, the most junior furloughee being recalled has a TW seniority date of July, 1977. M. Kirkpatrick who is among the f/as being recalled posted that info yesterday. I think, and hope, that most of them will return. The former TW f/as I have had the pleasure and honor to know and/or fly with have been top-notch professionals.

If a flight attendant refuses recall, that's it. His/her name is dropped from the recall list. The situation with pilots is different because they can pass on recall without losing their right to recall as long as there is still someone junior to them on the recall list.

In any case it will be interesting to see how many come back, and how long they stay. I've heard that some of them plan to retire soon after recall. Can't say I would blame them.

 

[IORFA]

Why come back, just to retire? They can retire today, if they want to. They don't get anything better by coming back and retiring after training. Seems like a waste of their time. Especially if they have to take time off work to complete the training. Then you also have the possibility of APFA sending you to a collections agency to get the back dues, if they don't pay. That idea sounds like a huge hassle to me.

 

[Veritas]

Why come back, just to retire? They can retire today, if they want to.

That's correct about those who were recalled and re-furloughed. However, there are many on the recall list how were younger than 50 when furloughed. In order to be able to retire from furlough with travel benefits, one must have turned fifty before being furloughed to qualify for the 50/55 rule and have travel benefits upon turning fifty-five

They don't get anything better by coming back and retiring after training. Seems like a waste of their time. Especially if they have to take time off work to complete the training. Then you also have the possibility of APFA sending you to a collections agency to get the back dues, if they don't pay. That idea sounds like a huge hassle to me.

Several flight attendants recalled in 2007 and 2008, who were not quite fifty when they were furloughed in 2003, had to go through training and report to base before they were able to take advantage of the 50/55 rule to retire and then get travel benefits upon turning 55.

After APFA changed its by-laws, in January, to make furloughed flight attendant dues obligated even while on furlough status, the union has gone after flight attendants who retired from furlough since then to collect back dues that accumulated while on furlough and threatened to turn their matters over to a collection agency.

 

[IORFA]

As long as you are vested, which they all are, why does it matter? That is news to me. That goes against everything I have been told in the past. I will have to look into it. Are you just saying that they can then start collecting at 50 instead of waiting till 55? If so, then I guess that makes sense.

From Jetnet:

Terminations and Furloughs

You are considered terminated, if you:

*
Resign;
*
are discharged;
*
fail to return from leave; or
*
reject a recall from a Furlough.

If you are not recalled from a Furlough, you are not considered terminated until the Company's recall rights expire. If you terminate from the Company, you may be eligible to receive a retirement benefit.

If you are vested in the Plan and leave the Company, you are entitled to a Deferred Benefit at age 65, Normal Retirement Age. If you have at least ten (10), but less than 15 years of Retirement Eligibility Service and you are not eligible to retire early on your termination date, you may elect to begin receiving a reduced benefit at age 60. If you have 15 years of Retirement Eligibility Service, you may elect to begin receiving a reduced benefit at age 55, or an unreduced benefit at age 60.

If you were a Member in the Plan before January 1, 1980, you may be eligible for an additional benefit.

If you are not vested in the Plan when you leave the Company, you are not eligible for a benefit.

For more information, see:

*
Overview of Pension Plan
*
Eligibility and Participation for Pension Plan

So, I guess if you come back and then retire you get money faster? Is that all? I mean, these people should all have at least 15 years correct? I really have no idea. Just curious, I really don't fully understand the whole TW retirement provisions.

 

[Veritas]

Are you just saying that they can then start collecting at 50 instead of waiting till 55? If so, then I guess that makes sense.

No. The 50-55 rule allows employees with fifteen years seniority to separate from the company between the ages 50 and 54 and then start receiving retirement travel benefits after turning 55.

Flight attendants who were furloughed prior to turning 50 are not eligible for the 50-55 rule. Some will come back for just long enough to qualify, even if it means reporting to base for only one day before retiring. In 2007 and 2008 the airline made those who came back for the sole purpose of retiring with benefits go through the complete three and a half weeks training course in order to take advantage of the 50-55 rule. Now, there is some talk that recallees who are returning only in order to qualify for travel benefits will be permitted to do so without having to go through training.

P.S. You edited your post while I was composing this one.

Please search Jetnet specifically for the "50-55 rule."

50-55 Age Rule

As of March 26, 2003, if you are at least 50 years of age, but not yet 55 years of age and have 15 years of company seniority at the time you leave the Company, you will be eligible for retiree travel privileges at age 55. If you leave the Company before meeting these age and service requirements, you will not receive retiree travel privileges even though you may be eligible for pension payments or other types of retirement benefits at a later date. You must contact HR Services once you meet the age requirement in order to receive retiree travel. By electing the 50-55 Age Rule, you will be separated from the Company and not considered a retiree until age 55 at which time you will need to contact HR Services.

The TWA folks are not going to collect any meaningful pensions if they were to come back just to retire. In most cases, those will amount to less than $100 a month. Those who are coming back to qualify for the 50-55 rules are doing so for the retiree travel benefits.

 

[IORFA]

Oh, so they have to come back just to get the retiree travel privileges? That makes sense. I knew that the $ portion for the retirement was minimal at best, although some people STILL think they get a ton if they come back. No matter how many times the union says otherwise. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[galleyguy4u2]

Why come back, just to retire? They can retire today, if they want to. They don't get anything better by coming back and retiring after training. Seems like a waste of their time. Especially if they have to take time off work to complete the training. Then you also have the possibility of APFA sending you to a collections agency to get the back dues, if they don't pay. That idea sounds like a huge hassle to me.

At least the pilots can bypass recall. APFA can't think outside of the toilet.

 

[galleyguy4u2]

Oh, so they have to come back just to get the retiree travel privileges? That makes sense. I knew that the $ portion for the retirement was minimal at best, although some people STILL think they get a ton if they come back. No matter how many times the union says otherwise. Thanks for the clarification.

And medical after pre-funding. Medical is more important than passes.

 

[frontline]

Gee, considering the posts on here about our management it's kind of ironic that a management strategy is leading to furlough recalls.