Aa Wants To Fly Hnl To Nrt

[TWAnr]

I don't understand. We weren't talking about NRT-HNL-DFW; so, there wouldn't be a flight through HNL to the mainland. And, if there is a layover after each leg, how is the duty limit exceeded--other than a 30-in-7 limit?

The crew that works DFW-HNL-DFW does not have to staff the HNL-NRT leg. That can be done as NRT-HNL-NRT by crews that work non-stop to NRT from JFK, DFW, LAX, ORD, etc.

TWA used to have a crew changes in CDG on through flights from JFK to TLV. My wife often worked CDG-TLV, after a layover at CDG, even though her pairing was BOS-CDG-TLV-CDG-BOS; the plane she worked from Paris to TLV, and its passengers, originated in New York.

 

[jimntx]

The crew that works DFW-HNL-DFW does not have to staff the HNL-NRT leg. That can be done as NRT-HNL-NRT by crews that work non-stop to NRT from JFK, DFW, LAX, ORD, etc.

TWA used to have a crew changes in CDG on through flights from JFK to TLV. My wife often worked CDG-TLV, after a layover at CDG, even though her pairing was BOS-CDG-TLV-CDG-BOS; the plane she worked from Paris to TLV, and its passengers, originated in New York.

Oh. Someone had mentioned doing HNL-NRT backward with a DFW crew. That's what I had played with this morning. DFW-NRT-HNL-NRT-DFW. No one ever mentioned going through HNL to NRT or DFW (on the return).

All I was saying was that it would be a 5 day trip and if the various websites are accurate, it would be right at 40 hours of actual flying time. I repeat...I would have to be medicated!

 

[kirkpatrick]

The number of possibilities is almost endless. The aircraft could originate at any station that has nonstops to HNL and then continue, or the aircraft could be any aircraft arriving from SJC, DFW, LAX, JFK or ORD. Ditto with the crew. One of the advantages of having so many flights into and out of NRT is the flexibility and increase in utilization it provides for AA.

It's best just to wait and see. At any rate, it's good news and if the service is approved it's a step toward the increase in the lucrative Pacific flying we've been reading about. It can't be anything but good for AA and the people on furlough.

MK

 

[IORFA]

Jim,

Intl bid lines can be built to 85 hours and if in IDF there is a side letter that allows them to go over 85 slightly for pure bids only and there are some restrictions in place . That was voted in by the IDF base for them only. It really only effects them with certain 767 Europe trips. I.E. 4 pure trips as opposed to 3 pure trips and maybe 1 carribean or S. America trip. Also, Intl does not have a 30 in 7 provision like domestic. So no problem there. That is what long haul and super long haul flying provisions are for. Now, we also can waive the required rest after long haul and super long haul flying if we are not on reserve. Hope that helps a little. Don't forget that the plane to HNL from NRT doesn't have to be a 777. Could be 767. Both AA cities receive one of them, NOT both.

 

[jimntx]

Jim,

Intl bid lines can be built to 85 hours and if in IDF there is a side letter that allows them to go over 85 slightly for pure bids only and there are some restrictions in place . That was voted in by the IDF base for them only. It really only effects them with certain 767 Europe trips. I.E. 4 pure trips as opposed to 3 pure trips and maybe 1 carribean or S. America trip. Also, Intl does not have a 30 in 7 provision like domestic. So no problem there. That is what long haul and super long haul flying provisions are for. Now, we also can waive the required rest after long haul and super long haul flying if we are not on reserve. Hope that helps a little. Don't forget that the plane to HNL from NRT doesn't have to be a 777. Could be 767. Both AA cities receive one of them, NOT both.

Thanks. That answers my question. So even with a DFW-NRT-HNL-NRT-DFW trip at 40 hours of actual flying, you could do 2/month. 10 days of flying and your done. I would guess it would go senior, ya think?

 

[twasilverbullet]

or 1 DFW-NRT-HNL-NRT-DFW and a few DWF-SJU-DFW turns.

 

[AAStew]

Like I said , wheelchairs would be requested for the crew! Except for maybe the JP speakers seniority on these trips would probably not go into the 4 digits and even the high 100's!

 

[Cosmo]

According to American's filing at DOT for an allocation of the seven frequencies needed to do a daily HNL-NRT nonstop, the service will be operated with a 212-seat (30C/182Y) B767-323ER starting November 1, 2004. You can read the DOT filing here.

 

[LiveInAHotel]

Ok, both the pilots AND the flight attendants have contracts with the company that say the layover hotels will be mutually agreed to by the company and the unions;

This is something operaations and Garfield1966 don't understand. You mention CONTRACT and they sit and ponder what that means.

Give up jimntx, they're pro-compAAny employees.

 

[Mach85ER]

This is something operaations and Garfield1966 don't understand. You mention CONTRACT and they sit and ponder what that means.

We could simulate the airport hotel situation in the following manner but they would cry like banshees before the month ends.

1. Start their trip in Sao Paulo and fly all night to DFW, get them 1.5 hours of closed eyes, (no sleep), rest during the flight.

2. After arrival at 6:00 am, they can pull a smartcart loaded with 50 lbs at least 1 mile until they get on their "layover" bus.

3. Have their bus driver drive in circles for 45 minutes then arrive at the Flight Academy where 2 offices have been converted to cheap hotel rooms. Have a 3rd office in the process of remodeling next door. Have the workers hammer during the daylight as they try to sleep after being awake all night. Another requirement for proper simulation, the departures off 18R have to overfly the building at 500' the entire time at T/O power.

4. For the next 50 hours, they can only eat the fine food at the academy. After all, customs confiscated Garfields' food from his PowerRangers lunchbox. Also, any meal will be a minumum of $30.

5. If they try to venture outside, on alternating days have a mugger hanging around behind the trees,or a 16 year old illiterate soldier with an M16 pointing his barrel at them for no apparent reason.

That's the short list. I have a feeling these two would get pretty quiet if they had to do it 5 times a month.

 

[upsilon]

I'm just a lurking outsider, but from the post above, it seems Hotel now acknowledges that Garfield is still at work at AA.

 

[operaations]

This is something operaations and Garfield1966 don't understand. You mention CONTRACT and they sit and ponder what that means.

Give up jimntx, they're pro-compAAny employees.

You are right and I am not afraid to admit I am pro Company. I want to see the company thrive and succeed. For me and every employee at AMR. It is in all of our best interests.

Back to the layover hotel situation. If the company is not putting you in a hotel that is stated by your contract is there something that can be done by your union. I truly stand by abiding by your contract. If you are to get it than you should get it and not be be getting any less.

 

[Rusty Bullethole]

I have to say that I am totally with ooperations on this one.

It seems that the IMPORTANT argument being put up here, is the amount of sleep that you can get on a layover and how you are affected if you don't get it and I totally 100% agree with that, but.........
At the end of the day all hotels look the same when you have your eyes closed in bed getting your much needed rest, so what the hell does it matter where you are staying? Why should you waste time on a bus travelling into a city centre (at the company's expense).....That extra 1 to 2 hours round trip, could be used for rest.
You are usually only there for 1 night, so you aren't gonna do much sightseeing and this is no vacation. The case for picking up a cheaper meal is not really a valid one, as there are always options wherever you stay.

Just for the record. Whenever I have to go offbase, which is fairly regularly, I always end up in a hotel at the airport. I wish when I was at JFK recently for 2 weeks, that the company had put me up in a hotel in Manhattan......I spent the whole time staying in Queens. So I know what airport hotels are all about, I just get on and live with it.

 

[jimntx]

At the end of the day all hotels look the same when you have your eyes closed in bed getting your much needed rest, so what the hell does it matter where you are staying? Why should you waste time on a bus travelling into a city centre (at the company's expense).....That extra 1 to 2 hours round trip, could be used for rest.

Well, no. If you can't tell the difference between a Hilton and a Motel 6, you don't get out enough. And, there's one hotel we stayed in that is definitely not like any other.

First off, it's the ONLY layover hotel in a city with frequent layovers--both long and short--and it's a 20-30 minute ride from the airport, and that's assuming the obese Jesus-freak, Bible-spouting driver (don't get your panties in a wad. I'm Episcopalian, but that doesn't give me the right to force my beliefs on you just because I'm your only transportation in town) doesn't make you wait for 20-30 minutes after you arrive while he stops for his 10th meal of the day.

Once you arrive at the hotel, you learn the first time to check the bed immediately to make sure that the sheets were changed after the last guest departed. The first time I stayed there, I found a Kleenex between the sheets. And, the sheets and pillowcases were wrinkled--as in slept in, not as in left in the dryer too long.

The restaurant may or may not be open while you are there. But that's ok. There's a service station next door that sells 3 day old sandwiches at inflated prices. Otherwise, you can walk across a very busy street to get to the mall--if the food court is still open.

This hotel has been written up by flight attendants and pilots alike many times. For some reason known only to them, the company absolutely refuses to discuss changing the layover hotel in this city. In fact, this used to be only the short layover hotel. When the long layover hotel's contract was up, this dump was made the only layover hotel in that city.

 

[Rusty Bullethole]

Jimntx...........

I have stayed in hotels whilst working for AA, scattered all over the system. I have had a mixture of good and bad, but I'm afraid that that's life at the end of the day! I think that you should think yourself lucky, that you only have to stay there for 1 night.
If you think that you are that hard-done by, then you are in the wrong job. Other airlines stay in the exact same grotty hotels and they live with it like they have to.
So stop throwing your toys out of your pram and get on with it!