AA enters LAX -ATL

[TRAVIS]

Josh my best guess is ATL will grow with mainline with SCS and JCBA ratified both AA and US have Agents, MX , Stores and Ramp.
You add US mainline and AA plus the EXPRESS flights the numbers look a lot better.
You still never know what them Bean Counters will do with their little pie and grafts charts, As I've seen them bone heads cut flights out that are over sold every flight due to lack of growth on their pie and graft charts. I guess they wanted us to start booking the LAV's. LOL
 
Look at ATL, US AIR just about or did pull out of ATL and lost Many PRIME Gate Space at the worlds busiest Airport. Thanks To AWA US Airways still has a few gates.  Just another bright move by the old US AIR bean counters.
We can only hope the AA Bean Counters have learned a thing or two about Prime Gate Spaces and Airport Real Estate.   

 

[737823]

WT look you clearly are so consumed with this DL can do no wrong mindset much like 700 is with the IAM. So when UA added the SFO flights a few months back why didn't you explain in great detail why it's a stupid route, they will never compete with DL, etc?

Josh

 

[TRAVIS]

When you post stuff like you have posted above, you show not only your bias but more importantly how hopelessly ignorant you are.

Customers don’t care about paying the highest price.
The fact that DL has the highest yield of all large jet US carriers is because DL offers a product that customers are willing to pay a premium for.
If you knew anything about revenues in the industry, you would know that DL’s model going into BK was heavily focused on high volume, low yield traffic – exactly what you get when you use widebody aircraft flying hourly from ATL to every major city in Florida – on top of single cabin service to much of the NE.
DL has a revenue premium because it flies where high value travelers want to fly, manage capacity so that they fly only when the demand exists at the fares DL wants to sell seats for, and DL provides a product that is of a high enough quality that DL is willing to garner more revenue per seat mile than any other carrier – and running a reliable and friendly operation is why.

The fact that DL has the best on-time and lowest cancellation rate, the fewest number of complaints among network carriers, one of the best on-time performances month in and month out is why DL has a revenue premium.
As for “old planes” DL has managed to figure out how to operate an older fleet than US carriers and yet do it with lower combined operating and financing costs and still run a more reliable operation.

Given that DL has spent more on updating the cabins of its aircraft than any other US airline, including putting Wifi and IFE on more aircraft than any other US airline, customers have no idea the age of DL’s aircraft – and that is precisely the point. DL offers a more reliable product with more onboard options than carriers who have newer aircraft.
I have no idea where you got the idea that NW’s int’l product has deteriorated but DL, not NW, renovated the cabins of EVERY ONE of the DL/NW int’l fleet. The 744s DL inherited had cradle seats and projection IFE which DL replaced with lie flat business class seats with direct access to the aisle from every seat – something UA doesn’t offer despite their renovation – and AA has yet to finish their renovation and has narrower seats than DL.
As for MSP, you could only get a comment like yours by reading a.net but there is no rational reason for believing that DL is downsizing MSP. Feel free to tell us what “facts” you used to come to that conclusion.

And it is completely INCORRECT that DL does not book on OAL for IROPS.

Why don’t you tell us about the amenities that DL offers for IROPS that AA/US, UA, and WN do not.

No, I am quite objective.

You can’t admit and neither can half of the AA fans here that AA is engaging in the exact same type of strategies that AA and US both used pre-merger: AA flew routes for the purpose of status whether they made financial sense or not while US acted like it was their job to pick a fight with anyone in the industry it could and usually with the result of getting beat and losing money in the process.
If AA can make money flying ATL-LAX, I certainly don’t slight them. But when they pulled ATL-LGA because they underperformed DL’s average fares by 25% only to restart the route and then add ATL-LAX, anyone with only the slightest objectivity has to recognize that AA’s chances of succeeding is limited in a market which DL will vigorously defend.

In complete contrast, DL gets average fares as good as or better than AA from AA’s hubs.

Parker and the AA/US clan seem hellbent on trying to prove that AA can compete with the best in the industry and in the process prove exactly why they won’t –because they can’t accept that the way to raise average fares is not to dump capacity into the market until it can be proven that you can do as good or better than their peers.

And, again, the cost is and will be AA’s overall financial performance. We will see within days why Wall Street is showing less interest in AAL stock and focusing instead on DAL and UAL who both have realized that airlines exist first and foremost as businesses – and everything that is done has to support being the best business.

Since you came back to ATL-MIA, it is worth noting that PMAA will be flying less capacity even after ATL-LGA is restarted in every market except for DFW which is up slightly; the majority of AA’s markets from ATL are using smaller aircraft on average. PMUS has added capacity to both CLT and PHL while PHX has remained flat but the overall combined AA/US system from ATL is flat in capacity before ATL-LAX is added.

It is also worth noting that between ATL-DFW, DL right now has 51% of the capacity compared to 40% for AA and 10% for NK. After WN and DL add/upgrade their ATL-DAL service, DL will still have 51% of the combined capacity from both DFW-ATL as well as ATL-DFW/DAL combined.
So, the chances are very high that AA will lose overall share from ATL to DAL/DFW which they are trying to make up for with ATL-LAX service.
And while using smaller aircraft allows airlines to push up average fares, it also pushes up costs. As DL and WN are both shifting to larger mainline aircraft in large part because it helps push down CASM, AA is facing double headwinds with higher CASM driven by higher wages and less efficient aircraft.
So, Josh, there is a whole lot of objectivity but you either don’t know the facts or don’t want to hear them because they highlight the strategic challenges – if not errors – that AA is making.

ONLY A FEW WORDS. TRY TO NON-REV OUT OF ATL.................ps pack a lunch......

 

[WorldTraveler]

the reason why HP remained in ATL was because they took the approach of undercutting DL in major markets to the west, the very same strategy that US used in all of its markets after the merger, including targeting AA the most as Parker tried to show how much more revenue that AA/US would make as the HP/US pricing strategies were eliminated.

Again, PMAA has reduced capacity to every one of its hubs except DFW where fares have come down with NK's arrival.

Even ATL-LGA will be restarted with fewer flights than AA operated before.

US has increased capacity to PHL and CLT and I am not sure the basis on which they will succeed at filling those seats given that those hubs are not larger overall.

DOT data eventually will show any route performs and will make it apparent how AA/US' strategies in ATL will work.
 

WT look you clearly are so consumed with this DL can do no wrong mindset much like 700 is with the IAM. So when UA added the SFO flights a few months back why didn't you explain in great detail why it's a stupid route, they will never compete with DL, etc?

Josh

because UA operates a large enough unique hub at SFO including to int'l destinations that ATL makes sense as a destination; UA serves far more of the world from SFO than AA does from LAX.

and secondly, UA is actually about the same size from ATL as it was before ATL-SFO in part because they cancelled EWR. IN fact, the only growth in seats from UA at ATL is because they are adding mainline to EWR and IAH, markets where DL has had the vast majority of the market and where UA realized they cannot compete against DL with small RJs.

UA is restructuring its network and not just capacity dumping and starting new routes without weeding out weak performers.
 

ONLY A FEW WORDS. TRY TO NON-REV OUT OF ATL.................ps pack a lunch......

which would tell you that DL is offering a product that customers want to buy and that DL has done a good job of matching capacity to demand.

with close to 1000 flights/day on over 120,000 seats, I'm sure DL's non-revs can figure out how to get in/out of ATL.

 

[737823]

Josh my best guess is ATL will grow with mainline with SCS and JCBA ratified both AA and US have Agents, MX , Stores and Ramp.
You add US mainline and AA plus the EXPRESS flights the numbers look a lot better.
You still never know what them Bean Counters will do with their little pie and grafts charts, As I've seen them bone heads cut flights out that are over sold every flight due to lack of growth on their pie and graft charts. I guess they wanted us to start booking the LAV's. LOL
 
Look at ATL, US AIR just about or did pull out of ATL and lost Many PRIME Gate Space at the worlds busiest Airport. Thanks To AWA US Airways still has a few gates.  Just another bright move by the old US AIR bean counters.
We can only hope the AA Bean Counters have learned a thing or two about Prime Gate Spaces and Airport Real Estate.

Hopefully but both CBAs are in full force independently until JCBAs are ratified. Other than you I don't know any of the USAIR people there but the AA agents are very good. Hopefully they can keep the desirable T-concourse gates. ATL will be a fairly large non-hub station but it's still smaller than at least BOS, PIT, RDU and STL based on total departures.

Josh

 

[TRAVIS]

the reason why HP remained in ATL was because they took the approach of undercutting DL in major markets to the west, the very same strategy that US used in all of its markets after the merger, including targeting AA the most as Parker tried to show how much more revenue that AA/US would make as the HP/US pricing strategies were eliminated.

Again, PMAA has reduced capacity to every one of its hubs except DFW where fares have come down with NK's arrival.

Even ATL-LGA will be restarted with fewer flights than AA operated before.

US has increased capacity to PHL and CLT and I am not sure the basis on which they will succeed at filling those seats given that those hubs are not larger overall.

DOT data eventually will show any route performs and will make it apparent how AA/US' strategies in ATL will work.


because UA operates a large enough unique hub at SFO including to int'l destinations that ATL makes sense as a destination; UA serves far more of the world from SFO than AA does from LAX.

and secondly, UA is actually about the same size from ATL as it was before ATL-SFO in part because they cancelled EWR. IN fact, the only growth in seats from UA at ATL is because they are adding mainline to EWR and IAH, markets where DL has had the vast majority of the market and where UA realized they cannot compete against DL with small RJs.

UA is restructuring its network and not just capacity dumping and starting new routes without weeding out weak performers.

Agree. like I said the old US made a Mistake losing the gates at ATL.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I am sure AA will keep some of the T gates but what flights will be pushed out to the D concourse in ATL?

kinda hard to argue about how much AA can offer in ATL if half of their flights have to be boarded in D. If LAX is such a high priority market, which flights are going to be pushed out of T in order to accommodate them?

 

[737823]

I am sure AA will keep some of the T gates but what flights will be pushed out to the D concourse in ATL?kinda hard to argue about how much AA can offer in ATL if half of their flights have to be boarded in D. If LAX is such a high priority market, which flights are going to be pushed out of T in order to accommodate them?

Explain this one, years ago DL sent BOS, DCA, and LGA (key business markets served with high frequency) from the T gates but lately they seem to leave from all over the place. DL manages to run operations all over the airport why can't AA? UA has done this in ATL for years. UA ran a split operation in BOS until last this past April. Yes being co-located is always best but it wouldn't make or break the operation. My bet is the PM-AA operations will stay in T and USAIR will stay in D.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

I'm not saying AA can't use the whole airport. But one advantage that AA COULD have at ATL is to have close-in T gates for ALL flights. As of now, only UA will have that advantage. Given that DL has far more service than UA in every market the two compete in from ATL, any advantage regarding gate location is far overcome by greater frequency and capacity on DL.

And, if gate location is really an issue, I would far rather have to change concourses in ATL than change terminals at DFW where EVERYTHING is spread out over a far greater amount of real estate.

If PMAA stays in T and US is kept in D, then it will further solidify that the merger is not at all about equals. It is absolutely true, though, that AA serves larger markets than US does from ATL.

 

[TRAVIS]

I am sure AA will keep some of the T gates but what flights will be pushed out to the D concourse in ATL?

kinda hard to argue about how much AA can offer in ATL if half of their flights have to be boarded in D. If LAX is such a high priority market, which flights are going to be pushed out of T in order to accommodate them?

keeping them all T gates....

 

[WorldTraveler]

keeping them all T gates....

yes, I was just saying AA will keep all of the T gates that they currently have but there is no room to add much if any more flights there.

and to your question, Josh, DL does use the % gates heavily if not exclusively for DFW, DCA, and LGA flights with other cities thrown in on a less frequent basis.

 

[TRAVIS]

yes, I was just saying AA will keep all of the T gates that they currently have but there is no room to add much if any more flights there.

and to your question, Josh, DL does use the % gates heavily if not exclusively for DFW, DCA, and LGA flights with other cities thrown in on a less frequent basis.

Sorry I was short had to fly, US and AA are working on gates for trade, But as I said US made a big mistake losing the gates they had at the D gates, They could have been used at this time for swaps other than having to give up gates in other stations.
We will see what they have in store for ATL.
As far as DL, They have their hands full with WN in their back yard in a full blown invitation so a few flight for AA is nothing compared to what WN is doing to them system wide as WN moves to southern routes.
 
Have a good one. 

 

[TRAVIS]

Hopefully but both CBAs are in full force independently until JCBAs are ratified. Other than you I don't know any of the USAIR people there but the AA agents are very good. Hopefully they can keep the desirable T-concourse gates. ATL will be a fairly large non-hub station but it's still smaller than at least BOS, PIT, RDU and STL based on total departures.

Josh

I have a gut feeling the NMB will  let out some kind of info this coming week.
I like small stations but ATL could use a little up sizing and a few more flights a day lets say 50 to 60 total a day and that keeps people working.
 
Have a good one Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

Sorry I was short had to fly, US and AA are working on gates for trade, But as I said US made a big mistake losing the gates they had at the D gates, They could have been used at this time for swaps other than having to give up gates in other stations.
We will see what they have in store for ATL.
As far as DL, They have their hands full with WN in their back yard in a full blown invitation so a few flight for AA is nothing compared to what WN is doing to them system wide as WN moves to southern routes.
 
Have a good one.

hope you had a good flight and I appreciate your cordial conversation.

WN is SHRINKING its presence in ATL and has HALF of the flights FL had at its peak and has cut dozens of destinations.

Further, WN is increasing gauge (larger aircraft) which means they are counting on filling a fewer number of flights with more local passengers at the same time they are raising fares, exactly as I expected they would do since WN is a higher cost carrier than FL was.
It is far from certain how well WN will survive in ATL given that DL outschedules WN in every market the two serve (such as 4 flights for WN to LAX, 3 for AA, and 10-12 for DL, mostly on widebodies)

It is precisely WN's pullbacks from ATL that are the reason why DL execs continue to note that DL's profit margin in ATL continues to increase.

WN is far less of a threat to DL than FL was.

Also as I noted on the US thread, DL has a far higher percentage (18%) of the local market in US' CLT hub than AA/US has in ATL.

 

[jcw]

WT were is the list of things DL is failing at - are you still struggling with your top 10 DL mistakes?