We still have a contract in place, for those who think we don't you are also drinking the cherry Koolaide. Yes, we would like to have a better contract in place, but the contract we have will live forever.... until the company, and f/a's get back to the table. There are three at play here.... so when that happens they will work again... but for now we all have contracts in place, that could last forever and ever.
A contract for US FAs must be completed prior to any new merger deal.
- Thread starter Crash Pad DCA
- Start date
Phoenix
Veteran
- Apr 16, 2003
- 8,584
- 7,430
If you were at least logically consistent and factual I might enjoy reading your points. Maybe someday.
im back..!!
Senior
- Mar 26, 2011
- 499
- 504
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you didnt come close to answering the question.
If the F/A's list might be in jeapordy of not being used due to not having it in a ratified contract, then so are the pilots list (nic) in jeapordy due to no ratified contract
you cant have it both ways....
ContUNITEus
Veteran
- May 4, 2011
- 501
- 580
So, I had a friend of mine who works with AA text me some highlights of the agreement that US (xcuseme AWA) management made with APFA, and I just can't help but wonder: American Airlines F/A's are already some of the highest paid F/A's in the industry, and Douggie goes there and offers them a pay-raise? What a f... slap in the face to all America West flight attendants.
It is just so outrageous that he would do this when time and time again, he has adamantly refused to give pay parity to the west flight attendants.
I remember being at the crew news sessions where a flight attendant cried while explaining that he was not able to make his mortgage payment, and the executives just shrugging it off with no sympathy.
It is now absolutely clear AWA execs don't give a damn about AWA employees as they can be kicked and beaten to the curb.
It is just so outrageous that he would do this when time and time again, he has adamantly refused to give pay parity to the west flight attendants.
I remember being at the crew news sessions where a flight attendant cried while explaining that he was not able to make his mortgage payment, and the executives just shrugging it off with no sympathy.
It is now absolutely clear AWA execs don't give a damn about AWA employees as they can be kicked and beaten to the curb.
Phoenix
Veteran
- Apr 16, 2003
- 8,584
- 7,430
You are correct. No union leader would submit an unratified list to an arbitrator. it would be a stupid breach that would leave them personally liable and they would be quickly reversed.
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
- Banned
- #36
Wrong. There's not a thing to stop the APA from introducing the Nic award (or the APFA from introducing the combined US FA list although the AFA would be almost guaranteed to use that as it's certified list). Until the AA unions replace the US unions, the AA unions have no duty to represent the US employees and are free to present to any arbitration panel whatever information they believe is most helpful to them and their members (or the least likely to get them sued).
Jim
prechilill
Veteran
- Nov 28, 2002
- 2,544
- 3,406
Once the APA does take over they will rest assured at night of using the only combined east west list which is a product of a neutral third party arbitration. Because APA inherits what USAPA inherited from ALPA.
And since USAPA is about to become extinct like ALPA, well, it doesn't take much to understand how this will play out.
God this has been a good weekend!
JAMAKE1
Veteran
First off, the bolded part of your quote gave me a good laugh. That was very funny, thanks.
Secondly, why would Doug Parker...or any other CEO for that matter...give pay parity to AWA flight attendants? There was never a Joint Contract Agreement reached and ratified between East and West. Trust me when I say this, I am no fan boy of Mr. Parker, however the expectation that former AWA F/A's should've been given pay parity is an unrealistic expectation on your part. Mr. Parker's fault may lie in the fact that negotiations were allowed to have dragged on for so many years, but not in the fact that former AWA flight attendants were never given pay parity. Pay parity is achieved by the conclusion and subsequent ratification of a Joint Contract Agreement. That never happened. Now I do realize that the West did get hosed when you folks weren't allowed to conclude your own Section 6 Negotiations after the HP-US merger was announced. (And BTW, I am in complete support of your reasons for rejecting your recent TA and I am also in awe of the solidarity shown on behalf of your union membership in that regard).
For the record, I am a F/A for UA. Unlike you West folks, we were allowed to conclude our own Section 6 Negotiations prior to the start of Joint Contract talks. Although, we have mostly concluded our merger with CO., pre-merger CO F/A's still earn more hourly than pm-UA F/A's (of course they have no work rules, but I digress). The point being, pay parity is usually achieved through the conclusion of and ratification of a JCA. In other words, we won't...nor do we expect...to achieve pay parity with our pm-CO counterparts until we have concluded the Joint Contract process.
Historically, the lone exception to how this process usually plays out, was when Edwin I. Colodny, USAir's former CEO during the respective mergers of PSA and Piedmont, gave instant pay parity to PSA and Piedmont's labor groups. We all know how that worked out: The former PSA network was completely shuttered w/in 3 years of the merger and with the exception of CLT, most of PI's former route network was jettisoned as well.
As it relates to the folks at AMR, Mr. Parker mostly likely crunched the numbers that established the increased revenue-generating capabilities created by the synergies of a US-AA tie-up, and offered raises to the AA employees based upon those figures. The good news for you and your cohorts on both the East and West side, is that should the master magician himself, pull this off, your raises will follow as well. With that said, the revenue-generating capabilities created by industry consolidation will be eventually be a win for you as well.
I will tell you this much: Had it not been for the merger with CO, pm-UA F/A's would've never seen a 10% raise at date of signing; a $5,000 signing bonus, nor a $60,000 early-out package in our recent TA.
So there it is, ContUNITEus...
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
- Banned
- #39
While I can't address the US/PSA merger, in the US/PI merger the PI groups were put under the US contracts, which generally paid more but not in 100% of the cases. Those few who made more under the PI contract were grandfathered into to pay rates until the US contract rate met or exceeded it. I know because I was one of those who made more under the PI contract than I would have under the US contract on the date of the merger. Anyway, there was no joint contract negotiated and that's what resulted in instant parity for the PI folks.
Jim
JAMAKE1
Veteran
Indeed, and more to the point that I was trying to make with contUNITEus.
Beancounter
Veteran
- Jun 28, 2009
- 1,378
- 1,817
What Parker can pay with a combined AA/US is a whole lot more than what he (the company) can afford to pay now. If the American deal falls through I hope you don't think he could offer this kind of pay for US. I have a feeling that, what was offered to the FAs was probably a little more than what he would have normally offered because he would have liked to have gone into this with at least the FAs combined.
You should be thankful that our management is as laid back as it is. If you were an Alaska FA and posted on a public forum with a non-flattering picture of the CEO as your avatar you'd risk being called in. It happened to one of their pilots.
I'm sorry if this is not sugar coated, but it is what it is.
Bean
In fairness Bean; non-flattering is in the eyes of the beholder. Consider that no "mug shot" was used....
Beancounter
Veteran
- Jun 28, 2009
- 1,378
- 1,817
You've got me there, good point.
A friend at Southwest told me they have the, "happy police." If you disparage the company you can get called in for it. I almost fell over laughing, if they did that at US the line to the CPs office would be backed up through security.
Bean
USA320Pilot
Veteran
- May 18, 2003
- 8,175
- 1,539
Nope. Here's the difference. The pilot's list was arrived at by final and binding arbitration and there is only one leadership body for two separate pilot groups. USAPA must equally represent all pilots, which is why the union will always be DFR if it attempts to change the Nicolau Award even if the list has not been implemented.
The F/A situation is different because your SLI was arrived at by the union's merger policy. They're two separate animals. For the F/A list to become certified per the Transition Agreement you had to ratify a joint contract. The F/A's elected not to do so and it may prove to be invalid because you have two different local unions. It could be up to the courts to decide this issue because you do not have a final and binding arbitration to decide the US-AWA SLI.
Furthermore, unless the APFA agrees to DOH you could have a relative position slotted list and be hurt because of economics too. And, your economics are worse than if you ratified the TA.
Mike Flores, Deborah Volpe, and the JNC warned you that if you did not ratify the TA and a merger happened the F/A's could get hurt. The majority of the F/A's took this risk even with the news US Airways had hired M&A IB's and legal advisors.
Now you will have to deal with the consequences because you are not guaranteed DOH.
Similar threads
