You are a hypocrite! I respond to hate filled posts, I don't create them. You accuse me of hate but when people like twaokc and his ilk get on here and spew their venomous hate by openly wishing and hoping for AA's and it's employees destruction YOU remain silent. Why is that? Why don't rebuke him/them? It is because you are a hyprocrite who is upset that his wife (and all TWAers) did not get her/their full TWA seniority at AA and you harbor ill will towards any nAAtive who dares to defend their position. My posts here will have NO EFFECT on my coworkers at AA; but the lawsuits, snide remarks, barbs, and incessant complaining about seniority that emanate from the ex-TWA people will. You also need to learn how to read. I posted that the ex-TWA people will get their TWA pensions (I should have clarified and said from the PBGC) in addition to what they earn at AA. Since they stopped accruing in the mid 1980s, and the plans were eventually turned over to the PBGC, they are getting a fraction of what they expected after working at TWA for 20, 25, 30, 40+ years. After working at AA for a much shorter time period, they WILL make more from the AA pension than they get from the TWA/PBGC pension; this is in with regards to ex-TWA rampers and others who have been working at AA since the transaction and have never been off payroll. The ex-TWA flight attendants obviously won't get much now because they have been off payroll for the last few years. These are the facts and they are indisputable.
460 FA's Recalled
- Thread starter kirkpatrick
- Start date
And we nAAtives are a tight-knit group;we have had 2 planes hijacked and flown into buildings, a catastrophic inflight structural failure, strikes, pay cuts, mergers, acquisitions, furloughs, an incompetent CEO who pissed away billions on a dead airline, and we survived an assault on our careers from the employees of a failed carrier. AA and it's employees are still flying; TWA is not and most of it's employees have found work elsewhere. So in reality, AA and it's employees survived; TWA and it's employees didn't. You may be back but you are at the bottom of the list.
And we nAAtives are a tight-knit group;we have had 2 planes hijacked and flown into buildings, a catastrophic inflight structural failure, strikes, pay cuts, mergers, acquisitions, furloughs, an incompetent CEO who pissed away billions on a dead airline, and we survived an assault on our careers from the employees of a failed carrier. AA and it's employees are still flying; TWA is not and most of it's employees have found work elsewhere. So in reality, AA and it's employees survived; TWA and it's employees didn't. You may be back but you are at the bottom of the list.
i can see that saying "you are at the bottom of the list" just tickles you heart. and you claim to not be hateful?
And we nAAtives are a tight-knit group;we have had 2 planes hijacked and flown into buildings, a catastrophic inflight structural failure, strikes, pay cuts, mergers, acquisitions, furloughs, an incompetent CEO who pissed away billions on a dead airline, and we survived an assault on our careers from the employees of a failed carrier. AA and it's employees are still flying; TWA is not and most of it's employees have found work elsewhere. So in reality, AA and it's employees survived; TWA and it's employees didn't. You may be back but you are at the bottom of the list.
[/quote
"AA and its employees are still flying", and now 460 more of AA's employees have the opportunity to come back and fly. I don't think the "who has had the most challenges" is very productive at this stage of the game. Negotiations will begin and you all had better hope that the strongest team will be representing you. Vote for Dixie Daniels for domestic negotiator.
Many have had to find work elsewhere not because of choice but to pay the bills. Simple math. I now break even, considering the cost of commuting, reserve 1 on, 3 off, holiday working (Christmas through New Years off!) and while I'll miss the 10 day months, not taking the job home, and the ease of the work, it is not the same, nor will it ever be the same as I left 4 years ago.
Being at the bottom is still being back, something that most thought would never happen. Those returning are a very resilient group and are taking the changes in stride. Just a new chapter in the adventure of being a flight attendant in today's labor unfriendly world. They are back because that is where they want to be and considering how some of the bids look, reserve may not be that bad...lol
As for supporting extending recall and Allegheny-Mohawk, your own contract has Allegheny-Mohawk provisions. Surprised? And you never know when you might be the target of an acquisition/merger (remember, Don Carty called it a merger). Your iron clad SCOPE (fashioned after ours) may come to the same end result. It is just words, written on a piece of paper.
I see nothing has changed....
It is nice to see new posters, welcome Patti and FAAA!
I am thrilled that you furloughed AA F/A's are returning! We need you!
Kirkpatrick, did you choose LGA? I am not flying much since my kids need me at the moment, but I will pick up a trip you are on (eventually) and buy you that wine I promised! Welcome back!
It is nice to see new posters, welcome Patti and FAAA!
I am thrilled that you furloughed AA F/A's are returning! We need you!
Kirkpatrick, did you choose LGA? I am not flying much since my kids need me at the moment, but I will pick up a trip you are on (eventually) and buy you that wine I promised! Welcome back!
And people like you. (whom I'm betting are in the majority) will make this new adventure worth while. Don't wish I was back flying but would have enjoyed sharing the wine...lol And really would have loved running for the negotiating team. Have fun!
OP
kirkpatrick
Veteran
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #82
I haven't received the letter yet, but will probably choose LGA, BOS, DCA, ORD and expect to get LGA. I'm right in the middle of the group seniority-wise (239 out of 460) and expect the majority to go to LGA.
Thanks! I'll take you up on that.
MK
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,959
- 9,374
I sure wish someone would try, though... the debate over which airline was better, who got screwed at who's expense, etc. was old back in 2002.
Seniority = View attachment 6250
Pretty much agree. That's what happens around here, though. Any nAAtive who doesn't fall into the happy- pappy -TWA butt kissing -love fest gets hammered.
FWIW, I got what I thought I deserved after the purchase, so let the chips fall where they may everywhere else. If we get unlimited recall great, if someone buys us in the future and staples us~ whatever. I have no problem working with anyone and everyone because I usually get along with everyone anyway.
Where did that come from? I can't think of anyone that either wants or expects TWA butt kissing. The wings say AA so you all had better figure it out pretty soon. There is a HUGE difference in respect and butt kissing. I think all that is really wanted is the acknowledgment of the $600,000,000 in "shared sacrifice" provided by the furloughed f/as and for some the ultimate concession, loss of a 20+ year career. Those returning are glad to be coming back and while 90% are really great, we have our stinkers too. They'll fit right in with the 10% that are your stinkers...
Nancy,
I always respect your opinion. Throughout everything you have remained very fair minded and even tempered. I am sorry you had to retire and you won't be doing anymore union work on behalf of FA's.
This board can get very contentious. I am guilty of quite a few flame posts on here, so I can't lay the blame on other's alone. I also admit to having derived some evil pleasure from some of my more ornery posts as well. Don't know why it's so, but there it is. Put it down to a bad day or hormones. Whatever.
I stand behind my comment that the nAAtives who disagree with any TWA opinions, or posts about any former TWA people, get beat on. Nobody is allowed to disagree with anything to do with seniority issues or anything else related to TWA without heavy backlash. There are quite a few nAAtives on this board who also enjoy denigrating AAFA's and whom play up to the TWA people by puppeting what they say and stating things guaranteed to please those who were at TWA. That's how I see it, anyway. I find it kind of unfair that a few like to make it seem as though we are all evil and don't get along with each other.
People like to make the comment that we are all one. I don't really buy it. If a nAAtive (which was a TWA derived moniker that I find amusing) refers to a former TWA FA as TWA we are perceived as bad yet it is perfectly ok for a former TWA person to do it. Kind of a double standard and used as a convenience to claim some sort of descrimination. If 9/11 didn't happen and we all had a chance to work as AA employees there would probably not be such a division.
I really have no animosity toward any of you guys. As I said, seniority was my issue and it has been decided. I'm just stating it as I see it. IMO.
Chris
Chris, I agree that there will always be some reference to the past. Payroll numbers are too identifying. We had our degree of separation too. REMOs, (returning mothers), OZ, (Ozark), '86ers, FTS (fullterm strikers), Crossovers, so that will never change. I find it interesting that neither the Trans Carib nor Air Cal f/as are known as anything but AA. I harp on the the wings issue because they do say AA and no matter where ANYONE has come from the wings say AA and for work, negotiations, and the future of the union, there has to be some sort of unity. I don't think anyone should be offended by the use of nAAtive or former TWA IF used in the proper context. And that of course applies to both sides. Just as you feel attacked, so do we, because while we may not think that the staple position was "fair", there are many on BOTH sides that agree that a slotting would have been the proper stance. That being said, it is what it is and those coming back are ready to move on with the rest of their careers. The rest of us have made a choice to not accept the terms offered. Pretty simple. As I said before, there will be many wonderful f/as returning and a few not so wonderful but then that is no different that the f/as already active. I do believe there will be peace on the jumpseats because there is just too much else to gossip about....
Regards, Nancy
FurloughedByAPFA
Member
- Dec 5, 2006
- 92
- 0
Recall:
It appears Bill # S.1992 is retroactive. Good news for those out on furlough.
(e) Effective Date-
(1) IN GENERAL- The provisions of this Act shall take effect on the date of the enactment of this Act.
(2) RETROACTIVE APPLICATION- This Act shall apply to a covered employee of an air carrier, or successor air carrier, that received financial assistance before September 22, 2002, pursuant to section 101(a) of the Air Transportation Safety and System Stabilization Act (49 U.S.C. 40101 note).
:wub:
It appears Bill # S.1992 is retroactive. Good news for those out on furlough.
(e) Effective Date-
(1) IN GENERAL- The provisions of this Act shall take effect on the date of the enactment of this Act.
(2) RETROACTIVE APPLICATION- This Act shall apply to a covered employee of an air carrier, or successor air carrier, that received financial assistance before September 22, 2002, pursuant to section 101(a) of the Air Transportation Safety and System Stabilization Act (49 U.S.C. 40101 note).
:wub:
Only "good news" if it is enacted by Congress and signed by the President, no?
Anyone really think that will happen?
FurloughedByAPFA
Member
- Dec 5, 2006
- 92
- 0
AA and it's employees are still flying; TWA is not and most of it's employees have found work elsewhere. So in reality, AA and it's employees survived; TWA and it's employees didn't. You may be back but you are at the bottom of the list.
.................Nice....................................Thanks!
