2015 Pilot Discussion.

[FL430]

You're going to be stapled behind every single America West pilot when this is over. You ALREADY ARE Courtney. Nothing will change that. Goodnight.

In the last eight years you have gotten exactly one prediction correct out of hundreds. You have proven yourself an idiot. Remember, sometimes it is best to remain quiet than open your mouth, because in your case it removes all doubt about your idiocy.

 

[Metroyet]

In the last eight years you have gotten exactly one prediction correct out of hundreds. You have proven yourself an idiot. Remember, sometimes it is best to remain quiet than open your mouth, because in your case it removes all doubt about your idiocy.

 
The FACT that NIC stapled all of the late 80's to present day new hired under ALL America West pilots isn't a prediction. It's a fact. A fact that despite the Illegal Hurculean efforts by east pilots, hasn't changed a bit.

 

[A320 Driver]

Blast from the past from our old friend Move2CLT......Sep 2012......tell us how he's doing.
The gift that keeps on giving........
Why - it was Dave Ciabattoni of course! And my take is that Dave is still taking advice from Seham. No, I am NOT kidding. Not only does this sound like the kind of crap that Seham would concoct, but consider the background:
Compass Correction is the creation of Dave Ciabattoni, USAPA's current Grievance Committee Chairman. He has authored nearly all of the Compass Correction updates even though he has his surrogates sign them. Dave is one hell of a politician, but to anybody that has been paying attention – like me – has noticed that he is really a Mike Cleary but without the psychosis or constantly wearing his emotions on his sleeves. In fact, Mike and Dave were VERY good friends for 20+ years right up until they both became USAPA Officers in 2009 and their gigantic egos clashed.
Dave is very good at creating giant messes, but then escaping blame for them, and then positioning himself as a hero.
Dave was the PHL (Council 41) FO Rep on the East MEC, and the “DOH or death” strategy that MEC employed was predominantly led by him. He was the one to convince a majority of the other MEC members that their merger attorney and the arbitrator were WRONG, and he threatened to remove any merger committee members that even THOUGHT about backing away from date of hire.
During that time, Dave made “buddies” with a few West pilots with similar meat-head mentalities. Of course, Dave could really care less about them, but he found that they were naive and gullible enough to trust him. Dave used these “friendships” as a weapon against the West MEC by feeding “information” to them that would end up on U-Turn. In fact, I think Dave even wrote some of the U-Turns himself.
When the Nicolau Award came out, Dave QUICKLY jumped on-board the USAPA bandwagon. He buddied up with Bradford and became USAPA’s #1 spy on the East MEC. While on ALPA flight pay loss, Dave spent his time working with Seham to write the USAPA Constitution. Dave also then positioned himself to become a martyr by intentionally navigating the PHL Council into trusteeship. So even though Dave is the one who really “caused” the Nicolau Award in a sense, he became a HUGE hero for fighting it.
When USAPA won the NMB election, Dave quickly cashed in on his West “friendships” by asking a couple of them to serve as USAPA reps. In exchange, his “friends” provided USAPA with AWAPPA web-board postings that were ultimately used in the RICO suit. One of those “friends” was even on USAPA’s witness lists to testify against the West pilots in the Addington trial. Oh – and by the way – those “friendships” still exist, as Dave apparently was just very recently trying to get two of them to serve as USAPA System Board members.
In 2009, Dave was elected to USAPA national office. Of course, shortly into his term, USAPA lost the Addington trial, and the union was beginning to fail miserably. One more time, Dave was quick to avoid responsibility for any of the mess he had a large part in creating by starting an underground movement to blame all of USAPA’s failings on Mike Cleary. In typical Dave Ciabattoni fashion, he avoided responsibility for the situation and became the martyr by publicly resigning from office, and blaming Mike Cleary for everything wrong with USAPA.
Although Dave’s public resignation was not quite as successful as he hoped initially, it did serve as the impetus for his creation of the Compass Correction. Dave also maintained his friendships with Bradford and King (also clueless, naive idiots) and began plans to put their faction back in charge of the union. First, Dave found a surrogate to run a recall campaign against Cleary. Of course, that effort failed miserably because the West didn’t support it. However, Dave knew that national officer elections were coming up, so he pooled together a few other surrogates to run for office. Dave knew that even despite his “heroics,” that the opposition could and would expose him for what he was – so Dave needed an impressionable “clean slate” candidate to run for president. That’s where Gary Hummel came in.
Gary has no union background at all, and until very recently, had never lifted a finger for the pilot group. He had served many, many years in the training department as a check airman where he earned himself a decent reputation with the pilots. However, Gary was FIRED from the training department early into USAPA’s existence. Although Gary claims that he was fired for his opposition to the “fuel school” issue, I have heard other versions of that story from more reliable sources. Nonetheless, it is undisputed that Gary was FIRED, and Gary’s termination began his “career” in the union world. And Gary’s anger combined with his complete lack of representation experience really made him fit in well with the other knuckle-heads. In fact, one of Gary’s first ideas as the training committee chair was to require that all pilots only communicate with management via certified mail!
So Dave had found himself the right group of puppets to seek national office, and his plan worked. Of course, both Bradford and Hummel, having really no CLUE about union matters, were relying heavily upon Dave for advice and guidance. In fact, for all intents and purposes, Dave has effectively been the USAPA President since April. The decision to appoint Burdick (one of Dave’s West “friends”) to the NAC and Stravers to the MC were all part of Dave’s subtle but evil plan to play West politics again. You have to admit – Dave is a hell of alot smarter than Cleary was. Cleary’s overtly hostile actions did nothing but unify us. Dave – having every bit as much contempt for us as Cleary did – knew that he could divide us by playing a very delicate game of West politics.
Remember that in Cleary’s final weeks, he ran a vilification campaign against Seham, and fired his firm. The Bradford / Hummel crowd – as guided by Dave Ciabattoni - defended Seham and continued to communicate directly with him. Seham too capitalized on Cleary’s failures as a means to clear his firm of any blame, and to try to keep a line in on the money flow from the US Airways pilots.
So – things seemed to be going well for Dave Ciabattoni and his hand-picked USAPA officers, but then came the MOU and it really threw a wrench into things. USAPA’s trusted outside advisors STRONGLY advised Hummel and Bradford to take the deal on the table, for many of the same reasons we have discussed here. But Dave – an obstructionist at heart - didn’t like that plan, and he left Hummel and Bradford high and dry. It is rumored that Dave is the author of the BPR update that helped sink the MOU, as well as the author of the recent Compass Corrections. Once again, Dave is positioning himself to be the guy who saved the US Airways pilots from another “cram down,” and Seham is positioning himself to be the guy who once again tells the US Airways pilots what they want to hear (for a small fee of course). And both Dave and Seham are being very careful to keep their names out of the press until the time is right.
I firmly believe that Dave Ciabattoni and Lee Seham are looking to make a comeback, and are using this MOU as the proper platform to do it. In the meantime, we have a completely clueless officer corps, a BPR that is being heavily influenced by Dave Ciabattoni and Lee Seham, and a disjointed, confused rank and file that really has no choice but to trust management more than the union.

There is a whole lot of truth in that quote regarding Dave. While I don't agree with some of the conclusions, I believe much of it to be accurate. He was marginal as a rep, ineffective as a Grievance Chairmen, and I hold him personally responsible for his threats and treatment of the Merger Committee that ultimately caused us to put on an unwinnable case in front of NIC.

 

[Claxon]

Please know that I never read beyond the first words you ever write. I almost completely ignore you. As soon as a see a post so ridiculously bedazzled by emoticons and "air quotes" I know that it's yours. Which is to say there's zero actual content... aside from some alcohol fueled keyboard masturbation.
You're an angry, bitter, lonely, douche bag void of enough social skill to leave your apartment. I find it impossible to imagine you're capable of living a normal life by generally accepted social norms. IOW you're a nut case. Please do quote this and respond with another 8 paragraph, 30 emoticoned, 50 air quoted, diatribe out of "you'se" poor, abused, dry-humped computer there Ace. Just know I'll never read a word of it.
And yes. All your 1999 "new hires" have already been stapled below ALL america west pilots. That won't ever change.

america west pilots have carved themselves out of another pilot group over which they claim to have seniority superiority. America west pilots mistakenly carved themselves out of a pilot group with WIDEBODY aircraft, multiple bases, and higher pay rates. Former America west pilots have affirmed the reality of the Nicolau list never having been implemented. How can they break into a separate group for the SLI when they simultaneously claim to be merged by Nicolau methodology? They cannot, and they themselves have broadcast their plight to the APA.
Now former america west pilots can be accurately and starkly assessed. A group with one stagnant base, no WIDEBODY jets, lower pay and lower career expectations.
One would scarcely blame east third listers from taking aim at this group. A east third lister can easily hold mainline captain, 330 right seat, 757 right seat. All hold more value than the majority of west pilots hired over a decade ago.
The west strategy in all dealings with the east pilots has been a stumbling blunder. The east third listers should make out exceedingly well against the majority of west first officers unless the west resorts to Date of Hire methodology to save their bacon.
Eric Ferguson will again lead his group over the cliff. Sit back and watch.

 

[Claxon]

S.T.A.P.L.E.D.
You'll never change that one simple fact.

If east pilots were stapled below you, why do you need a separate merger committee? You claim to already have affirmed your seniority vis a vis Nicolau, yet you want separate status from the group you claim to have already established seniority. Not too bright. Metroyet and Leonidas affirm their status. A pilot group based in one base, no widebodies and stagnant growth.

 

[EastCheats]

america west pilots have carved themselves out of another pilot group over which they claim to have seniority superiority. America west pilots mistakenly carved themselves out of a pilot group with WIDEBODY aircraft, multiple bases, and higher pay rates. Former America west pilots have affirmed the reality of the Nicolau list never having been implemented. How can they break into a separate group for the SLI when they simultaneously claim to be merged by Nicolau methodology? They cannot, and they themselves have broadcast their plight to the APA.
Now former america west pilots can be accurately and starkly assessed. A group with one stagnant base, no WIDEBODY jets, lower pay and lower career expectations.
One would scarcely blame east third listers from taking aim at this group. A east third lister can easily hold mainline captain, 330 right seat, 757 right seat. All hold more value than the majority of west pilots hired over a decade ago.
The west strategy in all dealings with the east pilots has been a stumbling blunder. The east third listers should make out exceedingly well against the majority of west first officers unless the west resorts to Date of Hire methodology to save their bacon.
Eric Ferguson will again lead his group over the cliff. Sit back and watch.

Ferguson did not lead anyone over a cliff. We aren't going to tolerate the bulky tactics. Not then, not now and not in the future. Your side bastardized unionism with your USAPA experiment. A union's power should have never been abused. Take Mike Cleary for example, who should be barred from holding an union position ever again for initiating a failed RICO suit against the very members it claimed to represent.

USAPA and Mike Cleary
A legacy of shame.

 

[EastCheats]

If east pilots were stapled below you, why do you need a separate merger committee? You claim to already have affirmed your seniority vis a vis Nicolau, yet you want separate status from the group you claim to have already established seniority. Not too bright. Metroyet and Leonidas affirm their status. A pilot group based in one base, no widebodies and stagnant growth.

Stagnation may very well be shifted to your side after this is all said and done.

 

[luvthe9]

The FACT that NIC stapled all of the late 80's to present day new hired under ALL America West pilots isn't a prediction. It's a fact. A fact that despite the Illegal Hurculean efforts by east pilots, hasn't changed a bit.

Fact, there is no NIC, fact FL430 is correct above, fact you locked yourself in PHX, fact you were offered the NIC, fact you turned it down, fact you lost out on massive growth, fact your little AFO club has damaged the rest of your pilot group.


The only fact that remains is you are an idiot.

 

[luvthe9]

Stagnation may very well be shifted to your side after this is all said and done.

Should that happen you're going to be REALLY a screwed. PHX is going to be toast.

 

[EastCheats]

Fact, there is no NIC, fact FL430 is correct above, fact you locked yourself in PHX, fact you were offered the NIC, fact you turned it down, fact you lost out on massive growth.
The only fact that remains is you are an idiot.

So what you are trying to say is that you were willing to accept the Nic and the West turned it down?



Thanks for the laugh

 

[Claxon]

The FACT that NIC stapled all of the late 80's to present day new hired under ALL America West pilots isn't a prediction. It's a fact. A fact that despite the Illegal Hurculean efforts by east pilots, hasn't changed a bit.

Answer why your group then has an urgent need to be declared seperate from east pilots in the SLI? If the Nic stapled as you said, you have no need to be seperate. You have made a colossal blunder. Led by the the King of Miscalculation. Eric Ferguson. Now the APA can use this against you to protect their own. Their goal all along.

 

[EastCheats]

Answer why your group then has an urgent need to be declared seperate from east pilots in the SLI? If the Nic stapled as you said, you have no need to be seperate. You have made a colossal blunder. Led by the the King of Miscalculation. Eric Ferguson. Now the APA can use this against you to protect their own. Their goal all along.

Shame

 

[luvthe9]

So what you are trying to say is that you were willing to accept the Nic and the West turned it down?

Thanks for the laugh

Guess you were not on the property at that time.

 

[EastCheats]

Should that happen you're going to be REALLY a screwed. PHX is going to be toast.

Are you sure about that?

 

[EastCheats]

Guess you were not on the property at that time.

Which lie are you going with Courtney? 33 or 34 years? You can't even keep up with your own lies.