2015 Pilot Discussion.

[psa8979]

You did the right thing AAL/LCC Pilots . Congratulations ! to the the APA Leadership for educating their Membership and getting the Membership to vote YES . For real change in the Airline Industry and ALL ! Union Members. VOTE ! in 2016 for a Congress that will amend the RLA in 2016 . SOLIDARITY .

 

[luvthe9]

The age makeup of the Spirit pilot group, and the fact that Spirit is a stepping-stone to the majors, made their decision to strike a no-brainer, and almost a no jeopardy decision.  (Similar to the Com-Air strike.  Oh, and look what that solidarity got them in face of the financial clout of Delta.)
 
Also, due to it's miniscule size, the nature of the clientele and the cities it served, Spirit is well off the radar of the politicians.  Spirit goes on strike?  Who knew?  Who, other than Ma and Pa Kettle, even cares?  Everybody can be reaccommodated on other carriers, so there would never be Presidental or political interference.

They had still had more balls than you, I don't care how small and insignificant you think they are.

 

[EastUS1]

Tom Davis used to tell the Piedmont pilots that our compensation would be great, but he didn't want us to be first. There was a reason for that...one you will never understand. For some of you, it will never be enough. Others just want to pick a fight with the company to see who can win it. For the rest of us, we look at what seems reasonable at the end of the day, we have peace with it, do our jobs and go home.

 
This whole mess was badly fumbled from the onset by the APA's desperate eagerness to just get whatever they could from the bankruptcy, BK drive through window, without at all even attempting pilot group consolidation of any kind. The acceptance of the MOU, as written, was a mistake of monumental import. A stop-gap, short termed agreement to protect basic interests would've been reasonable. A wholesale surrender of otherwise reasonably assumed future gains was not. How it was even remotely possible for all those in the "We're not worthy!..We have no leverage!" camp to even imagine that, especially with the bragging rights of becoming the "leaders" of "the world's largest airline", as well as the untold millions, even tens of millions they could individally profit from making the deal happen, that the sad likes of Parker/Kirby/et all wouldn't have cheerfully sold their wives, mothers and children into ISIS slavery to get it done? Leverage is often, largely a matter of perception. Those that forever believe themselves without any pre-determine that sad outcome to be fact. "Argue for your own limitiations, and sure enough, they're yours." Richard Bach
 
For myself?...Well, guess I'd best get on with the business of figuring out how best to spend the minor stipend of additional chump change I'll now see...Very sadly, at the expense of those who will deal with the wisdom of their recent decision for many, many years to come.
 
No matter anymore, I suppose. Well, whatever else is true; all were able to vote and what's done is done, and I sincerely wish the very best to those with hopefully, many years yet to go.

 

[EastUS1]

You did the right thing AAL/LCC Pilots . Congratulations ! to the the APA Leadership.....

 
Perhaps you could point me to just exactly where any supposed "Leadership" was/is to be anywhere found there? Perhaps within the incredibly divisive and fragmented domicile "leaders" communications, or the very "president" cheerleading for the company's fine "offer", especially with said "offer" being so graciously presented under the false colorization of company contrived, and entirely nosensical "deadlines", et al? "But if you order in the next five minutes, you'll get a whole other 'free' SHAMWOW!"..(additional shipping and handling fees apply), of course.  If there's truly any actual "Leadership" within the APA, well, I've yet to see it evidenced anywhere.
 
"Congratulations ! to the the APA Leadership for educating their Membership and getting the Membership to vote YES ." Umm...er, I really just don't have a printably decent response for that. This whole thing comically reminds of a many decades ago class in undergrad business school, that particular class being management-labor "relations". The whole grade was quite literally based on which of our randomly selected groups, to act as either management or labor, were most successful in advancing their own interests and wholly screwing over their opponents in a simulated negotiation. The likes of Glass are neither brilliant nor at all unpredictable...save to those that are sadly ignorant of even Pavlov's studies...and will eagerly salivate at merely the motions of a metronome or the ringing of any "bells"....
 
Oh well. Being a fairly "short timer", this isn't my personal problem, so again I'll wish all the very best, and good luck....which will most certainly be needed, at least in lieu of good sense of any kind.

 

[FL430]

Dream on kid. I honestly see those ties as little more than a proud badge of any wearer demonstrably being at least 10-20 IQ points below any acceptable norm, and are always good for some chuckles and/or bemused head shakes.
 
"Those ties are bringing Nic Plus to a property near you shortly." Seriously?...I rest my case.

Only 10-20? I think you are being overly generous there East! I think minus 30-40 would get you in the ball park.

 

[nycbusdriver]

They had still had more balls than you, I don't care how small and insignificant you think they are.

 
Are you too old to apply to Spirit?  Sounds like you would rather be associated with them than collecting the 23% raise your colleagues secured for you.
 
Please, post the Spirit compensation package for all of us to give us the balanced picture you deprive us of when you post Delta's compensation.

 

[PullUp]

 VOTE ! in 2016 for a Congress that will amend the RLA in 2016 . 

Be careful what you wish for. Republican political backers want to amend the RLA to abolish 'union shops'.
This would effectively kill unionism in the airline industry.
Cheers.

 

[PullUp]

 
This whole mess was badly fumbled from the onset by the APA's desperate eagerness to just get whatever they could from the bankruptcy, BK drive through window, without at all even attempting pilot group consolidation of any kind. The acceptance of the MOU, as written, was a mistake of monumental import. A stop-gap, short termed agreement to protect basic interests would've been reasonable. A wholesale surrender of otherwise reasonably assumed future gains was not. How it was even remotely possible for all those in the "We're not worthy!..We have no leverage!" camp to even imagine that, especially with the bragging rights of becoming the "leaders" of "the world's largest airline", as well as the untold millions, even tens of millions they could individally profit from making the deal happen, that the sad likes of Parker/Kirby/et all wouldn't have cheerfully sold their wives, mothers and children into ISIS slavery to get it done? Leverage is often, largely a matter of perception. Those that forever believe themselves without any pre-determine that sad outcome to be fact. "Argue for your own limitiations, and sure enough, they're yours." Richard Bach
 
No matter anymore, I suppose. Well, whatever else is true; all were able to vote and what's done is done, and I sincerely wish the very best to those with hopefully, many years yet to go.

When the company hires the best of the best in the labor relations industry, you are going to lose. But, by losing, they'll make you think that you've won.
Congratulations, winners!
Cheers.
(voted no)

 

[luvthe9]

Are you too old to apply to Spirit?  Sounds like you would rather be associated with them.....
 
.

Yes, Would love to be associated with a group that has backbone.

 

[luvthe9]

When the company hires the best of the best in the labor relations industry, you are going to lose. But, by losing, they'll make you think that you've won.
Congratulations, winners!
Cheers.
(voted no)


Don't worry, Wilson and the APA are on it.....



APA will now focus on further engagement with American Airlines management to address ongoing shortcomings in our contract. Our total compensation will still trail industry-leader Delta, while work rules affecting our pilots quality of life need meaningful improvement. Theres a lot of work remaining to achieve the industry-leading contract our pilots deserve, Wilson said.



Hey Keith, that ship has sailed!!

 

[EastUS1]

When the company hires the best of the best in the labor relations industry, you are going to lose. But, by losing, they'll make you think that you've won.
Congratulations, winners!
Cheers.
(voted no)


Don't worry, Wilson and the APA are on it.....



APA will now focus on further engagement with American Airlines management to address ongoing shortcomings in our contract. Our total compensation will still trail industry-leader Delta, while work rules affecting our pilots quality of life need meaningful improvement. Theres a lot of work remaining to achieve the industry-leading contract our pilots deserve, Wilson said.



Hey Keith, that ship has sailed!!

 
"Sailed" and as quickly sunk. That ship's just been torpedoed before it could even get out of the harbor.
 
"APA will now focus on further engagement with American Airlines management to address ongoing shortcomings in our contract."...? Thanks for that one. It's good to at least be able to get some hearty laughs out of this. I can only reasonably assume that the word engagement's meant to announce the coming nuptials, with Wilson as the blushing bride, of course.
 
As but a cynical short-timer, and regardless of my own serious misgivings; I do sincerely hope that things work out as well as is now possible for all the pilots at the "New", but-certainly-not-Improved American Airlines.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Yes, Would love to be associated with a group that has backbone.

 
Get that application in.  I would be happy to offer a letter of reference.

 

[EastUS1]

 
Get that application in.  I would be happy to offer a letter of reference.

 
I've always respected your same stance on never selling out our "young" to the nic obscenity nyc, and at this point; I'm thinking you had/have a better handle on this group's essential dynamics, and can now at least understand your Yes vote, while I'm sadly more of the admittedly Don Quixote sort it seems. Those that will be here for many years yet will have to "fight" their own "battles" as they then see fit.  I guess we're just left with figuring out what to do with the extra coins now passed to us before we exit.
 
Best wishes for a long, healthy life and a fine retirement when that day comes brother.

 

[Phoenix]

Be careful what you wish for. Republican political backers want to amend the RLA to abolish 'union shops'.
This would effectively kill unionism in the airline industry.
Cheers.

 
What would Parker do if he lost his buddies, the APA?  Who would sell the contract concessions for him?  Who would play bad cop good cop with him against the peasants?    Unions employee far too many carpet baggers to ever shut them down.   The perpetual "fight" (as choreographed as it is) provides too many profit opportunities.  There will always be unions.  
 
Who will parrot phrases like "regressive offer", "negotiations are over", "live to fight another day", "the time value of money", "management doesn't trust us", "We asked.  They said, no."  "We wrote another stern letter to management.."  And of course my favorite bobble head quote, form the bobble head in chief...."Now that we voted Yes to accept all of management's concession demands, its time for management and us to work together on making improvements to all of our QOL concerns."   
 
The show must go on, because it makes riches for the "more equal".   

 

[EastUS1]

 
What would Parker do if he lost his buddies, the APA?  Who would sell the contract concessions for him?  Who would play bad cop good cop with him against the peasants?    Unions employee far too many carpet baggers to ever shut them down.   The perpetual "fight" (as choreographed as it is) provides too many profit opportunities.  There will always be unions.  
 
The show must go on, because it makes riches for the "more equal".   

 
"There will always be unions." Indeed, even if nowadays in name only, it sadly seems.