2015 Pilot Discussion.

[FWAAA]

So why all the concessions then? Why ANY concessions at all? If this is supposedly "industry leading", then where's the profit sharing, just for starters? "industry leading" my arse! This thing's a recipe for quickly becoming the lowest both compensated and quality of life pilots in the big 3 airlines for at least a decade. How do people not see that? Why accept anything with language that leaves the door wide open to hose everyone on future medical expenses? If this is supposedly a show of "Strength" well, I'd rather commune with jellyfish.

Profit-sharing? That's a good one!!

I had to pick myself up off the floor after reading that one. I do hope that every US Airways pilot asks their new colleagues, the legacy AA pilots, why they were so stupid as to voluntarily relinquish the 15% first dollar profit-sharing that they had in the bag in 2012. Old AA management offered it up in the 1113 term sheets and the AA pilots gave it up for reduced concessions. They traded away a newly-hatched gosling that is now turning out to lay golden eggs and they sold it on the cheap. And even morons saw those profits coming.

"Buying" back profit-sharing now would be expensive, so that would be a perfect example of "sell low and buy high." That's why many people lose their ass in the stock market. They buy when the price is high.

Parker's on record as being sorta "anti-profit-sharing" for the common worker bee and is unlikely to sell it back to you for cheap. Thank Capt Wilson and Laura "Doug is my soulmate" Glading for that one.

Every other airline that had been thru bankruptcy in the past decade provided profit sharing to its workers, and they gave it away. Brilliant!

 

[Piedmont1984]

Why are we dissecting the JCBA now? Just a few weeks ago the BOD was ready to accept the company LBFO provided the company included min calendar day. For everyone who said let the BOD decide, they would have if only the min day was included.
 
Well the company said no and here we are, so when you think of it we are voting to accept or reject based on min calendar day - that's it.
 
I don't see min day as being important enough to nix the deal.
 
All these base blasts decrying the lack of profit sharing, 321 pay, excise tax, etc. is nothing more than buyer's remorse. They already bought it three weeks ago.

 

[Res Judicata]

 
So why all the concessions then? Why ANY concessions at all? If this is supposedly "industry leading", then where's the profit sharing, just for starters? "industry leading" my arse! This thing's a recipe for quickly becoming the lowest both compensated and quality of life pilots in the big 3 airlines for at least a decade. How do people not see that? Why accept anything with language that leaves the door wide open to hose everyone on future medical expenses? If this is supposedly a show of "Strength" well, I'd rather commune with jellyfish.

A concessionary deal would be zero improvements and concessions. 1.8 Billion dollars for some give backs is called negotiations, not concessions. Give and Take. See...you idiots only see the home run...which is why you've never had one. Quite the opposite actually. Where is your Pension? LOA93+5 years? Look in the Mirror...this is you fking up your career again. Is it some kind of compulsion to be attracted to self destruction? The Facts are staring you in the face. There is no Leverage, and to be honest, the APA blew it before you ever heard about this deal. They just had to teach Horton a "lesson". I'm sure that 19 Million dollar package really hurt his feelings. Talk about tunnel vision....Anyway, You are where you are. Do you think Parkirby is wringing their collective hands praying for you to take their 1.8 billion dollars? They aren't. You'd make their week if you didn't.

 

[Res Judicata]

 
Then Wilson, you're a pathetic excuse for a union "leader" and should find another job..Period.

Your fake union leadership was so pathetic, Parker and Kirby didn't even feel the need to inform them that this merger was happening. Why should they, they didn't need USTUPID at all. Not even a little bit. THAT'S Pathetic.

 

[EastUS1]

 Look in the Mirror...this is you fking up your career again.

 
My career's virtually over. Any purely selfish interests would be best served by enthusiastically applauding pathetically stupid little twits like yourself, as you toss me some added chump change towards the finish line I'd otherwise miss....in exchange for your future quality of life, as well as ANY potential for otherwise soon-to-come, already established raisies and defineably ACTUAL NEGOTIATIONS,...Oh well. By having not the slightest patience or foresight, you're setting yourselves up to continue "careers" as the mindless, spineless and unbelievably gullible village idiots "you'se" truly are. I can now understand why the likes of Kirby laugh at "you'se" whilst attired in very respectful, pink wigs and purple tutus. Truly is it spoken that one "just can't fix stupid"...
 
Have fun..."So long, and thanks for all the fish"...

 

[Metroyet]

My career's virtually over. Any purely selfish interests would be best served by enthusiastically applauding pathetically stupid little twits like yourself, as you toss me some added chump change towards the finish line I'd otherwise miss...and, by having not the slightest patience or foresight, set yourselves up to continue "careers" as the mindless, spineless and unbelievably gullible village idiots "you'se" truly are. I can now understand why the likes of Kirby laugh at "you'se" whilst attired in very respectful, purple tutus. Truly is it spoken that one "just can't fix stupid"...
 
Have fun..."So long, and thanks for all the fish"...

I hope you've enjoyed a satisfying career then. Times change. Living in the past is the real career killer. Maybe things get better. We'll see. I know this: this childish need to believe that being a pilot was ever the Norman Rockwell ideal is just that. Childish fantasy...right along with the ridiculous notion of the mythical "right stuff".

You've seemed to take that bait hook line and sinker. Happy retirement.

 

[EastUS1]

Truly is it spoken that one "just can't fix stupid"...

....Times change. Living in the past is the real career killer. Maybe things get better. We'll see. I know this: this childish need to believe that being a pilot was ever the Norman Rockwell ideal is just that. Childish fantasy...right along with the ridiculous notion of the mythical "right stuff".

 
 I rest my case. "Maybe things get better. We'll see."  So, even in a never before seen or dreamed of era of obscene profits, now isn't the time to work towards things EVER getting better?
 
"I know this: this childish need to believe that being a pilot was ever the Norman Rockwell ideal is just that. Childish fantasy...right along with the ridiculous notion of the mythical "right stuff". What you project there are merely your own sad limitations and that of a desperate need to be somehow, personally "validated" regardless of them.  There, there now, just have a nurturing little hug and a lollipop on me kid, and I'll hope you feel better afterwards. It should at least help reduce the taste from licking management's shoe soles a bit.

 

[Phoenix]

So why all the concessions then? Why ANY concessions at all? If this is supposedly "industry leading", then where's the profit sharing, just for starters? "industry leading" my arse! This thing's a recipe for quickly becoming the lowest both compensated and quality of life pilots in the big 3 airlines for at least a decade. How do people not see that? Why accept anything with language that leaves the door wide open to hose everyone on future medical expenses? If this is supposedly a show of "Strength" well, I'd rather commune with jellyfish.

We are afflicted with negotiation morons.

The company came to us expressing their desire for particular concessions.. If we don't immediately give them what they want, will they suddenly cease to have those desires, or cease to have billions in discretionary income?

And we are afflicted with another "union" "president" that neutered are ability to negotiate and aided mngmnt in low balling us. Hummel is now an amateur.

 

[EastUS1]

Profit-sharing? That's a good one!!

I had to pick myself up off the floor after reading that one. I do hope that every US Airways pilot asks their new colleagues, the legacy AA pilots, why they were so stupid as to voluntarily relinquish the 15% first dollar profit-sharing that they had in the bag in 2012. Old AA management offered it up in the 1113 term sheets and the AA pilots gave it up for reduced concessions. They traded away a newly-hatched gosling that is now turning out to lay golden eggs and they sold it on the cheap. And even morons saw those profits coming.

"Buying" back profit-sharing now would be expensive, so that would be a perfect example of "sell low and buy high." That's why many people lose their ass in the stock market. They buy when the price is high.

Parker's on record as being sorta "anti-profit-sharing" for the common worker bee and is unlikely to sell it back to you for cheap. Thank Capt Wilson and Laura "Doug is my soulmate" Glading for that one.

Every other airline that had been thru bankruptcy in the past decade provided profit sharing to its workers, and they gave it away. Brilliant!

 
Excellent observations, and yeah, as to the inherent brilliance in tossing profit sharing for not even pennies on the dollar...sometimes...words just fail me.

 

[EastUS1]

We are afflicted with negotiation morons.

The company came to us expressing their desire for particular concessions.. If we don't immediately give them what they want, will they suddenly cease to have those desires, or cease to have billions in discretionary income?

And we are afflicted with another "union" "president" that neutered are ability to negotiate and aided mngmnt in low balling us. Hummel is now an amateur.

 
Sadly agreed in full. Per: "If we don't immediately give them what they want, will they suddenly cease to have those desires, or cease to have billions in discretionary income?" Don't dare even try that "logic thing" with some of these complete fools. "But wait! If you don't order in the next ten minutes we can't guarantee to still have any of those prized purple tutus in stock! Call now before time runs out! If you're one the next 500 callers, we'll even give you some nearly 2 billion in bogusly "valued" Fantasyland funny dollars to go with your order! You can't afford to wait even another minute! Call now! This is the one-and-only/very-best-deal we'll ever offer!...Just trust us!"
 
Sigh!..."If He had not want them shorn, He would not have made them sheep."

 

[luvthe9]

Hi Neil, how's the garbage business?

 

[Metroyet]

Truly is it spoken that one "just can't fix stupid"...
 
 I rest my case. "Maybe things get better. We'll see."  So, even in a never before seen or dreamed of era of obscene profits, now isn't the time to work towards things EVER getting better?
 
"I know this: this childish need to believe that being a pilot was ever the Norman Rockwell ideal is just that. Childish fantasy...right along with the ridiculous notion of the mythical "right stuff". What you project there are merely your own sad limitations and that of a desperate need to be somehow, personally "validated" regardless of them.  There, there now, just have a nurturing little hug and a lollipop on me kid, and I'll hope you feel better afterwards. It should at least help reduce the taste from licking management's shoe soles a bit.

Okay. So. Please tell me. What EXACTLY has your "generation" done for this profession? I know that in your mind you're "the greatest generation" but lets see what you and your contemporaries have left behind: Pensions? gone. Work Rules? gone. Influence over the RLA? gone. A level NMB playing field? gone. Please tell me, when EXACTLY did any of you or your contemporaries actually do a God Damned thing to help this profession? WTF do you think you're kidding? You were never a PanAm Captain in 1967. You and Yours left this reletive shitt pile behind. Don't flatter yourself. Nobody is as stupid as you're hoping they are. Don't like the profession? Look in the Mirror.

 

[Phoenix]

Okay. So. Please tell me. What EXACTLY has your "generation" done for this profession? I know that in your mind you're "the greatest generation" but lets see what you and your contemporaries have left behind: Pensions? gone. Work Rules? gone. Influence over the RLA? gone. A level NMB playing field? gone. Please tell me, when EXACTLY did any of you or your contemporaries actually do a God Damned thing to help this profession? WTF do you think you're kidding? You were never a PanAm Captain in 1967. You and Yours left this reletive shitt pile behind. Don't flatter yourself. Nobody is as stupid as you're hoping they are. Don't like the profession? Look in the Mirror.

^^^^^^^^^^^^
Exhibit #1. Negotiating moron.

Never even saw (much less addressed the question) "If we dont immediately give them what they want will they cease to have those desires, or will they cease to have billions in discretionary income?"

P.S. AWA had the $h!ty contract from its beginning. Talk about a glass house. Just sayin'.

 

[EastUS1]

^^^^^^^^^^^^
Exhibit #1. Negotiating moron.

Never even saw (much less addressed the question) "If we dont immediately give them what they want will they cease to have those desires, or will they cease to have billions in discretionary income?"

 
Yeah. You would think that after a nurturing hug and even a lollipop, that the poor kid could've at least brought 2-3 of his/her less hysterical brain cells (if any exist) together to address such a both basic and very reasonable question. Oh well.

 

[luvthe9]

Found on the Internet"..............



Fellow Pilots:

Ultimately it is your decision to make. But make sure you are looking at the facts correctly. The negotiating committee tries to put out the information the best they can but there is one important detail missing in their presentation. When they look at the valuations, they look at the numbers the way the company does. As pilots, we need to realize there is a tax implication on every financial assumption they make.

As a Group 2 Captain the difference in pay and the present MTA between now and the end of 2018 (we can't use 2019 numbers as the Negotiating Committee did if we are doing apples to apples) is $101,633. Throw in DC and you are up to $117,894. Let's say you end up paying about 40% on your last dollar of income in various taxes. That gives you $60,980 in wages and $16,261 in DC for a total of $77,241.

For a Group 2 F/O, the difference in pay and the present MTA between now and the end of 2018 is $72,026. Throw in DC and you are up to $83,550. Let's say you end up paying about 40% on your last dollar of income in various taxes. That gives you $43,215 in wages and $11,524 in DC for a total of $54,740 in your pocket.

In return you have guaranteed that this is a ten year deal and your pay will be stagnate. This is true because you have prematurely sold out your medical early and have not been properly compensated for it. You have also cleared the way for a 200 aircraft E190 fleet to be manned by the most junior pilots in both seats. Management has everything they need well into the future.

While riding jumpseat this Fall from DTW to PHL, the Captain turned out to be a MSP Rep. When he found out I was a former PHL Rep, he opened up about an experience the Board at DAL had with Anderson at a meeting. They relayed to Anderson that if they had a deal before Jan. of 2016 he could influence the pilot cost at AAL. Anderson's response was that he was well aware of that and also that he has never not had a contract before the amendable date.

The point I am trying to make is that DAL will have a contract by 2016 and that will provide substantially more money than the current MTA. Parker knows this and that is why they are offering us enticements such as December pay and extending the deadline. For much less than the afore-mentioned $77,241 or $54,740, by voting yes you are giving up on future medical benefits and handing the company several hundred million dollars in savings in pilot cost on the E190. I actually believe the deal to be concessionary. Your future medical cost will far outweigh what you are receiving in the deal.

It's your vote, but make sure you can live with it for the next ten years because you will have no leverage to do anything. You will also be purchasing your own medical insurance and you have been vastly under compensated for it.

On the other hand, if we turn it down we are backstopped by the MTA and we will get raises in 2016 based on a new Delta pay rate. We also will come out the other side with the Green Book intact and will have negotiating leverage with the company. They still need our help in putting this deal together.

As a former PHL Representative the decision is an easy one. I am voting no!

Respectfully,

Jamie A. Weidner
PHL A330 F/O