- Feb 10, 2011
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Since you have all the answers, tell me why with all that experience that you have, why couldn't you keep your own airline out of bankruptcy prior to 2005?EastUS1 said:
US Airways was one looming disaster after another.
2015 Pilot Discussion.
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US Airways was one looming disaster after another.
All east-west/west-east nyaah nyaahs aside; I simply do not understand how anyone with many years yet to work, would willingly choose ANY concessions, especially at this time.
Sigh!...A more well-"reasoned" response for currently voting in favor of accepting management's concessionary table scraps could never be imagined. What was I thinking to even ask?
CactusPilot1 said:
Sigh!...A more well-"reasoned" response for currently voting in favor of accepting management's concessionary table scraps could never be imagined. What was I thinking to even ask?
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I have an interesting read for you, East
Airline Merger Wars
The battle for the soul of an airline
"As with other global industries, the airlines can survive only if they respond to large economic forces, and past decisions to combine fleets and personnel may have helped make it possible for almost anybody to travel almost anywhere today. But remembering my dads experience, I wondered how mergers look from the insidethat is, to the people who report to work every day as their employer changes its identity. In the case of American and US Airways, despite management hopes for unity, the two carriers are still very distinct entities.
The initial skirmishes have already taken place at the union negotiating table, where for pilots and flight attendants in particular, nothing means more than the seniority list, which determines base pay, type of equipment flown, and preferred scheduling. And given the complexity of buying another carrier in todays airline industry, sometimes youre planning a merger with at least one airline that hasnt fully completed a previous merger. Just to make things more confusing, the name the airline chooses to continue operating under doesnt indicate who came out on top. Doug Parker was once the head of America West Airlines; when America West acquired the bankrupt US Airways in 2005, he became the chairman of a new US Airways, which then acquired American Airlines; each time the company assumed the name of the more recognized brand.
A tangled web of union contracts resulted. At some point, all the happy hand-holding is going to go away, said a first officer at American in early 2014, shortly after the integration began. He and many other current airline employees were willing to share their stories, but unwilling to be identified for fear of reprisals from their carriers or unions. Were going to spend months fighting each other, the pilot said. Were going to have a situation [similar to] where US Airways is with America West Airlines. Theres still no seniority list. In March, the US Airways pilot union filed suit against American in U.S. District Court over how their seniority lists would be merged; as of December, the lists remain separate. Were really not at the clash-of-cultures stage yet, he adds. Were operating completely separate airlines.
The tension can spill over into the cockpit. Although the pilot says the incidents are isolated, he recalls hearing about a US Airways captain who refused to allow an American pilot to ride in the jump seata professional courtesy extended thousands of times a day across virtually all airlines all over the world. The snub was widely condemned among the flight crews of both airlines, and the US Airways union reminded their membership that fellow aircrew should be treated with respect."
Read more: http://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/airline-merger-wars-180953942/#ixzz3Pa5oVezv
Airline Merger Wars
The battle for the soul of an airline
"As with other global industries, the airlines can survive only if they respond to large economic forces, and past decisions to combine fleets and personnel may have helped make it possible for almost anybody to travel almost anywhere today. But remembering my dads experience, I wondered how mergers look from the insidethat is, to the people who report to work every day as their employer changes its identity. In the case of American and US Airways, despite management hopes for unity, the two carriers are still very distinct entities.
The initial skirmishes have already taken place at the union negotiating table, where for pilots and flight attendants in particular, nothing means more than the seniority list, which determines base pay, type of equipment flown, and preferred scheduling. And given the complexity of buying another carrier in todays airline industry, sometimes youre planning a merger with at least one airline that hasnt fully completed a previous merger. Just to make things more confusing, the name the airline chooses to continue operating under doesnt indicate who came out on top. Doug Parker was once the head of America West Airlines; when America West acquired the bankrupt US Airways in 2005, he became the chairman of a new US Airways, which then acquired American Airlines; each time the company assumed the name of the more recognized brand.
A tangled web of union contracts resulted. At some point, all the happy hand-holding is going to go away, said a first officer at American in early 2014, shortly after the integration began. He and many other current airline employees were willing to share their stories, but unwilling to be identified for fear of reprisals from their carriers or unions. Were going to spend months fighting each other, the pilot said. Were going to have a situation [similar to] where US Airways is with America West Airlines. Theres still no seniority list. In March, the US Airways pilot union filed suit against American in U.S. District Court over how their seniority lists would be merged; as of December, the lists remain separate. Were really not at the clash-of-cultures stage yet, he adds. Were operating completely separate airlines.
The tension can spill over into the cockpit. Although the pilot says the incidents are isolated, he recalls hearing about a US Airways captain who refused to allow an American pilot to ride in the jump seata professional courtesy extended thousands of times a day across virtually all airlines all over the world. The snub was widely condemned among the flight crews of both airlines, and the US Airways union reminded their membership that fellow aircrew should be treated with respect."
Read more: http://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/airline-merger-wars-180953942/#ixzz3Pa5oVezv
CactusPilot1 said:
Hardly that interesting at all. My one experience seeking a jumpseat ride from "you'se" umm, "spartans" resulted in denial, while I've never sunk so low's to return the "favor," nor should anyone ever, no matter their personal prejudices.
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AgreedEastUS1 said:
Well..that "Spartan" was wrong if the denial was just because you were an East pilot.
CactusPilot1 said:
Agreed, and for that's for either side, east-west-wherever, or anyone who indulges in such infantile nonsense anywhere. Whatever the mutual antagonism, spirited Nyaah, Nyaahs and Yo' Mommas horsecrap; the cockpits' never a proper place for childish games for any of us play...Period.
luvthe9
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http://ir.delta.com/files/4Q/Earnings%20materials/Delta-Air-Lines-Announces-December-Quarter-Results_v001_f67r8q.pdf
DELTA'S NUMBERS
Good thing we gave back profit sharing!!
DELTA'S NUMBERS
Good thing we gave back profit sharing!!
See the very fact you asked that question speaks volumes... Just so you know... pilots don't run the airline. Pilots don't make any decisions on marketing, purchases, slotting, mergers, fare sales, destinations etc.CactusPilot1 said:
I know that might be a blow to your ego, as you think you personally have saved US Air and now AA from bankruptcy, but sometimes you need to base your arguments on reality.
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Pilots, they just fly the airplanes. Not a really important part of the industry I guess. A monkey could do it, right? Did you bother reading the arbitrator's comments and facts from the process that I posted? That's the reality based on facts, not conjecture.fr8tmastr said:
Yes. I read the comments. I do not own your pair of rose colored glasses.CactusPilot1 said:
"After carefully considering the arguments of the parties, the Board finds
that the proper issue before it, therefore, is as follows: “Whether the APA has the
discretion to designate a West Pilots Merger Committee to participate in the
seniority Integration List (SLI) process and, if so, whether it should do so?”
"The West Pilots deny that the issue before the Board is whether or not West Pilots have an independent legal right to participate in the SLI proceedings.
Any attempt to reframe the issue in this manner should be dismissed by the
Board, the West Pilots insist. Whether the West Pilots have a separate and
independent legal right to engage in SLI negotiations and arbitration is irrelevant,
as APA has already decided as a matter of its discretion to appoint
The sli seniority integration of US Airways and American pilots will take many years to settle.
Whats your contribution to the merger? Each merger committee will be asked this very question soon.
Let me help you west pilot your contribution is;
Future meager attempts of law suits.
marty harper law suits.
roger valez law suits.
mitch vasalino fresh out of a 6th tier law school law suits.
many 7th tier legal graduate west pilots suing.
PHX base competing with Southwest Airlines.
Airbus narrow body aircraft at the end of their cycles.
No growth history since 2005.
No wide body aircraft.
Real scabs in the list you are presenting.
Please feel free to elaborate your contributions to add to this list. Very specifically, what do west pilots offer to this merger besides future law suits.
Whats your contribution to the merger? Each merger committee will be asked this very question soon.
Let me help you west pilot your contribution is;
Future meager attempts of law suits.
marty harper law suits.
roger valez law suits.
mitch vasalino fresh out of a 6th tier law school law suits.
many 7th tier legal graduate west pilots suing.
PHX base competing with Southwest Airlines.
Airbus narrow body aircraft at the end of their cycles.
No growth history since 2005.
No wide body aircraft.
Real scabs in the list you are presenting.
Please feel free to elaborate your contributions to add to this list. Very specifically, what do west pilots offer to this merger besides future law suits.
CactusPilot1 said:
Not according to BFF "Doug" you're not. Don't ever forget that all are merely part of "100,000 employess" that make "little difference" to daily ops and corporate profits, at least in his mind. Whenever anyone both tells and shows you just exactly who and what they really are: Believe them. "A monkey could do it, right?" "Doug" clearly thinks so, and his concessionary "offer" fully demonstrates that.
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