2015 Pilot Discussion.

[luvthe9]

Pilots comments to the BOD about the Kirby 2 proposal

I want to go to Arbitration
Insulting. Move scope from one area to another and tell us they pulled scope off the table.
Insulting. Pay proposal that doesn't include profit sharing. Insulting. qol issues go unresolved.
THE LARGEST AIRLINE IN THE WORLD AND THEY PUT THIS ACROSS THE TABLE?
This is an insult from the company. Along with the pay there has to be quality of life improvements.
Send this back to them and tell them to come up with a real proposal.
Please reject this proposal and accept no concessions on SCOPE.
Unless there is something behind the curtain to all of this in our "quality of life" then I support this being rejected at the board level.
I hope that you are as insulted as I am. I am ready for arbitration
Clearly, IMO, the BOD will need to flatly reject and counter this slap in the face. No need to involve the membership
Please, no more extensions, no more delays. Proceed with the agreed to cost-neutral Arbitration.
Just say no! Hand them back their sheet of paper and tell them to try again when they truly value our service. The raise is 16 months away and that is fine.
No QOL Improvements = No Vote
Delta Book rates plus 3 compounded...
NO QUID (they already have that... THE AIRLINE)
NO contract DURATION extension
No Extension!
No Give on SCOPE!
No concessions! We already gave - TWICE
NO Middle of the night landings! That is just another Quality of Life give away.
NO NO NO!
Please do NOT send this piece of garbage proposal to a vote
I will vote no on anything that even resembles this POS.
the company offer is not adequate to even consider for a five year contract. Return that piece of paper to the sender.
Please do not negotiate from this insult.
Industry Leading Contract NOW!!
Absolutely not. Go to arbitration
The company's proposal is not only NOT comprehensive, it is NOT "industry leading."
No to Parker.
The "comprehensive non-proposal" from Kirby/Parker is DOA.
What Kirby put on the table is a joke
Not only was the "offer" insulting; the manner in which it was delivered (talking points with little specifics) was disgusting.
We pilots do an A+ job for a company that makes A+ profits. This "proposal" is a D-
A total slap in the face! Pay rates would have to go up another 15% if they refuse profit sharing.
They blew it. Only going to do my job & no one else's. So much for a new day.
Industry lagging W2 with industry lagging work rules and neglected QOL issues is an insult to every pilot here
Please vote no on the company proposal.
It's an insult and I for one would rather wait another year to attain already agreed upon pay rates without all of the give backs
Disgusted. Disrespectful. A class of 5th graders could have came up with a more "comprehensive" proposal!
To be clear - AAs offer is wholly unacceptable.
does not take into account what Delta is really making or going to make with profit sharing
Make an Industry leading counter and put the ball back in their court.
This is at least 20-25% behind Delta. Our best leverage is to terminate all cooperation if we do not receive a Delta contract
Tell them to go to hell, never expect anybody to do more than their job, and we will see you in arbitration.
Hope they like a United/Continental outcome versus a Delta/Northwest!
The membership pilots just got a swift kick in the nuts. I think we are all on the same page going forward that this "offer" is DOA.
Please vote NO and AAG management will have to live with the consequences!
Doug Parker was quoted as saying that we'll get a Delta contract when we make Delta profits. Well, we've exceeded Delta's profits, and virtually all analysts agree that AA will continue to make profits of at least $4 billion per year into the foreseeable future.
"DAL + 3%" is industry lagging even without considering profit sharing. We need to get DAL's "new 2015" pay rates plus profit sharing.
You granted an extension for this proposal! Pathetic! Time to act like a union! Nothing has changed
Ask them if they want a DAL merger or a United operation.
After seeing the pathetic offer by management, I realized this management team is only different in name
You have got to be kidding me?!!!
In light of the totally unacceptable proposal from management, and in light of the staggering profits currently being made by this company, it is clear that the tactics of APA have to change.
No Way!
2015 pay rates below 2001 rates!
No profit sharing!
Please send the management "comprehensive" proposal back to them with a big red NO scribbled on it.
If you chose to negotiate with them again please let them know that the honeymoon is definitely over with the pilots of APA and that they have wasted a golden opportunity to get cooperation and more productivity from the pilots.
falls way short of delta... No thx
The proposal is unacceptable. Please do not send this POS to the membership. The new management is the same as the old. It's obvious they do not require our goodwill, just send it to arbitration and be done with it. Maybe Delta will get a raise? We might be better off....
The company offer is solely inadequate. I am prepared to wait till 2016 for my raise as contractually agreed upon
To sum up……F&%# THEM!!!
The company trumpeted their carefully worded "industry leading pay" (not contract) DAL+3% to make us look like the bad guys when we turn it down.
INSULTING.
In light of the Comprehensive Proposal grab, I am asking the BoDs to NOT vote on the proposal. Just send it back
APA needs to officially make LOS a prerequisite to negotiations.
No Extension and Industry leading Contract. I vote to go to arbitration/cost neutral contract if need be instead of accepting this company proposal
Not even anywhere close to actual "Delta +3%". Send it back. I'll take arbitration.
The Proposal is DOA.
No Arbitration
NO CHANGES TO SCOPE
a LIMITED EXTENSION only IF there is basis for Negotiation
This is a complete NON STARTER!!!!! No mention or movement on any of the critical issue the pilots absolutely REQUIRE!!
Please send this junk back to Parker, don't vote on it and certainly please do not send to us.
Please strongly consider this deal and send it to the members.
We have been played...... You are forgiven.....Now let's get REAL with the Membership about HERE AND NOW!
Spin it any way you want, I have a right to vote. Send it to the membership.
I would rather make less money than give up scope or work rules!
Send the proposal to the membership for a vote.
Not one seat. No amount of $ justifies an increase in scope
Enough is enough! No more extensions. The company has had plenty of time to do the right thing. If we do not have an honest proposal by the deadline, I'm okay with arbitration.
I simply want to add my name to the long list of pilots that ask you to stand firm and insist on an ILC
We need an Industry Leading Contract NOW!
Refuse to counter nor meet with management. (especially this "son of Brundreg" dude). A three word response sends a huge message to all parties: " not good enough".
The 3% a year is not even joke level. We need ISC!!
please turn down this proposal, it is insulting to our profession.
You will need to get much higher pay rates without profit sharing as part of the deal.
Otherwise I see no reason to vote for the "Economic Package"
Please don't even bother voting on the company proposal. Just send it back. It only showed that the company has no respect for us. This proposal looks as if it was thrown together in a meeting that couldn't have taken more than 2 hours. It's a joke.
Put it a paper bag, poop on it, light it on fire and leave on the CP doorstep
Totally lacking any meaningful contract advancements, it was far short of adequately addressing our concerns.
All 8 are not even a consideration for me to compromise. We are the most profitable airline. Please act accordingly
To quote The Who… Meet the new boss, same as the old boss


To view this email on the APA Website,

 

[Metroyet]

Had a Delta guy on the jumpseat the other day, We will need at least a 40% raise to come close to the contract that they will get.

Ah. There it is. The hallmark of a true East pilot...jealousey and spite. You were hopelessly unemployed a few years ago with more time on furlough than active. Now america west saved you, your pay has doubled in the last year and you're still a miserable bitter person feeling entitled to more. Again, a true East pilot.

 

[EastUS1]

..... Now america west saved you, ....

 
Have "you'se" made that perfectly clear to the folks at APA as well? Especially as they're now confronting AWA's esteemed management, well, I'm sure they could use some laughs too.
 
"and you're still a miserable bitter person feeling entitled to more."...? One must reasonably assume that you avoid reflective surfaces in much the same way as do cinematic vampires.

 

[EastUS1]

Ferguson made it very clear that he was not going to be strong-armed. Wye River was a cram-down and not a compromise. ....

 
Good for "you'se" for taking such a both brilliantly thought out and highly principled approach to business there. Had you not explained it in your post, well, one might almost have otherwise imagined that your lot was simply too greed-soaked, short sighted and essentially stupid at Wye. After all, why would your accepting even the disgusting offer of the nic abomination with fences (that would have expired by now) have been even at all in your best interests, especially when PHX folks could, over 7 years post nic now, otherwise find themselves in the enviable positions you do?
 
Please DO send the very same geniuses to represent your interests in the upcoming SLI.  First tell 'em all how truly tough "you'se" are and that you certainly won't be "strong-armed" by anyone ever. Aw heck; throw in a few rousing rounds of "this is sparta!" while you're at it. If none of that nonsense much impresses them, well, there's always the fantasy that AWA "saved" everyone concerned to offer.

 

[CactusPilot1]

Ferguson made it very clear that he was not going to be strong-armed. Wye River was a cram-down and not a compromise. ....

Yup

 

[luvthe9]

Ah. There it is. The hallmark of a true East pilot...jealousey and spite. You were hopelessly unemployed a few years ago with more time on furlough than active. Now america west saved you, your pay has doubled in the last year and you're still a miserable bitter person feeling entitled to more. Again, a true East pilot.

Not at all son your to stupid to understand I guess, Parker told us we could have a Delta contract when we make Delta profits, that time has come. You know we saved you scabs from "Projrct Zanzibar" you have been riding our coat tails for quite some time.


PS my has not doubled, you westies are really clueless.

 

[CactusPilot1]

Good for "you'se" for taking such a both brilliantly thought out and highly principled approach to business there. Had you not explained it in your post, well, one might almost have otherwise imagined that your lot was simply too greed-soaked, short sighted and essentially stupid at Wye. After all, why would you accepting even the disgusting offer of the nic abomination with fences (that would have expired by now) have been even at all in your best interests, especially when PHX folks could, over 7 years later, otherwise find themselves in the enviable positions you now do?
 
Please DO send the very same geniuses to represent your interests in the upcoming SLI.

Greed soaked..thanks for the chuckle, Mr integrity challenged. I'll bet you cheated on the AFOQT to get in the AF. Let me guess, the next arbitration will be an abomination. Right?

 

[EastUS1]

I'll bet you cheated on the AFOQT to get in the AF.

 
What, might one now ask "Mr integrity challenged", were your scores? Why does the idea of cheating on an examination come so quickly to you, and just how might you imagine that to be possible on the AFOQT? No matter son. I've no doubt your service to "sparta" more than compensates, at least in what can only laughably pass for your, umm, "mind".

 

[CactusPilot1]

Not at all son your to stupid to understand I guess, Parker told us we could have a Delta contract when we make Delta profits, that time has come. You know we saved you scabs from "Projrct Zanzibar" you have been riding our coat tails for quite some time.
PS my has not doubled, you westies are really clueless.

Did you vote yet?
2015 APA - AA Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement Amendment Vote
Vote Receipt
Confirmation Number: xxxxxxxx
I vote as indicated on the JCBA between the Allied Pilots Association and American Airlines.
[ X ] I vote to APPROVE the JCBA between the Allied Pilots Association and American Airlines.

 

[EastUS1]

Not at all son your to stupid to understand I guess, Parker told us we could have a Delta contract when we make Delta profits, that time has come. ...... you westies are really clueless.

[ X ] I vote to APPROVE the JCBA between the Allied Pilots Association and American Airlines.

 
You just made the man's point for him....as well as my earlier about your pathetic lot being management's eagerly drooling little pets and "useful idiots".
 
Hearty congrats to "you'se" for so proudly voting in favor of a concessionary contract in times of record, all-time-high industry profits.

 

[CactusPilot1]

Not at all son your to stupid to understand I guess, Parker told us we could have a Delta contract when we make Delta profits, that time has come. ...... you westies are really clueless.

 
You just made the man's point for him....as well as my earlier about your lot being mangement's eager little pets and "useful idiots".
 
Hearty congrats to "you'se" for proudly voting in favor of a concessionary contract in record, all-time-high industry profits.

1) I've had more dealings with ParKirby well before you came on the property in 2005.

2) USAPA never got a contact, why should I follow your lead to LOA 93, bankruptcy wages? That's your legacy.

Maybe this time we can merge the airline and get on with our lives.

 

[EastUS1]

1) I've had more dealings with ParKirby well before you came on the property in 2005.

 
Indeed, and the "spartans" proven track record of licking "ParKirby" shoe soles must have left you well-trained/fully-conditioned-and-willing for more there, and one can only begin to even imagine the delight brought to the American pilots/employees by the whole "AWA thing"...
 
Oh well; I'm sure you voted as you did to demonstrate how you'll never be "strong-armed" and, instead of blindly diving as a mindless fish after any passing lure made in the Instant Gratification factory in bumfuk China, will remain always steadfast in your "principles"...

 

[CactusPilot1]

Indeed, and the "spartans" proven track record of licking "ParKirby" shoe soles must have left you well-trained/fully-conditioned-and-willing for more there, and one can only begin to even imagine the delight brought to the American pilots/employees by the whole "AWA thing"...
 
Oh well; I'm sure you voted as you did to demonstrate how you'll never be "strong-armed" and, instead of blindly diving as some fish after any passing lure from the Instant Gratification factory in bumfuk China, will remain always steadfast in your "principles"...

Hysterical....emotion, not rational thought is how Usapians like yourself operate. Show me and the APA the industry leading contract USAPA negotiated. Tell them how it's done, living on bankruptcy wages. You showed them.

 

[EastUS1]

Hysterical....emotion, not rational thought is how Usapians like yourself operate. Show me and the APA the industry leading contract USAPA negotiated. Tell them how it's done, living on bankruptcy wages. You showed them.

 
Oh! How foolish of me. I'd not realized that your current vote had anything whatsoever to do with USAPA. What happened to all that derisive pom pom flashing for USAPA's decertification, as well as your faith in the APA...?
 
"Hysterical....emotion, not rational thought.." So, what exactly was your "rational thought" for proudly voting as you just did? It must indeed be very proud moment, since you posted it for the whole world to see. What was your "rational thought" for earlier, and equally proudly voting into being the incredibly constraining MOU?

 

[CactusPilot1]

Oh! How foolish of me. I'd not realized that your current vote had anything whatsoever to do with USAPA. What happened to all that derisive pom pom flashing for USAPA's decertification, as well as your faith in the APA...?
 
"Hysterical....emotion, not rational thought.." So, what exactly was your "rational thought" for proudly voting as you did?

Maybe you are so self-absorbed or soaked in alcohol to notice the previous posts by your USAPIAN buddies. Faith with the APA? I went to the meeting when they were in town and made the obvious choice based on their presentation. I don't listen to Courtney's misinformed opinions or his imaginary Delta jumpseaters.