Res Judicata
Veteran
Better read the ORDER Sybil. USAPA has ZERO power over the west. Completely equal in the eyes of the law. Nic++ is on the way.Claxon said:
2015 Pilot Discussion.
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Good question sir. I happen to have a video of eric ferguson explaining why the west did not take the nic when offered. In the following video link, 2004 date of hire eric ferguson, offers his wisdom on the subject you inquired about in your post above.Hope777 said:
At 2:35 in the following link to a video, eric provides the answer to your question.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty_cyOKzEF4
The ruling, sans dicta;
"X Decision by Court. This action came for consideration before the Court. The
issues have been considered and a decision has been rendered.
IT IS ORDERED AND ADJUDGED that pursuant to the Court’s Order filed March 31,
2014, judgment is hereby entered in favor of Defendant US Airline Pilots Association on Count I and Count IV; judgment in favor of US Airways, Inc. on Count II; and a judgment of dismissal without prejudice on Count III.
This judgment applies to the certified West Pilot Class as defined in the Court’s September 18, 2013, Order:
“All pilots who are on the America West seniority list currently incorporated into the West Pilot’s collective bargaining agreement.” This action is hereby terminated.
BRIAN D. KARTH
District Court Executive/Clerk
March 31, 2014
"X Decision by Court. This action came for consideration before the Court. The
issues have been considered and a decision has been rendered.
IT IS ORDERED AND ADJUDGED that pursuant to the Court’s Order filed March 31,
2014, judgment is hereby entered in favor of Defendant US Airline Pilots Association on Count I and Count IV; judgment in favor of US Airways, Inc. on Count II; and a judgment of dismissal without prejudice on Count III.
This judgment applies to the certified West Pilot Class as defined in the Court’s September 18, 2013, Order:
“All pilots who are on the America West seniority list currently incorporated into the West Pilot’s collective bargaining agreement.” This action is hereby terminated.
BRIAN D. KARTH
District Court Executive/Clerk
March 31, 2014
- Feb 10, 2011
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I think the video in it's entirety, Eric does a good job explaining the decision making process.Claxon said:
Key part of the ruling:Claxon said:
"USAPA has succeeded here but it is a Pyrrhic victory. As contemplated by the MOU,
in the very near future an election will take place and a new representative will be chosen by
all of the post-merger pilots.13 It is almost certain USAPA will lose that election. Once that
happens, USAPA will no longer be entitled to participate in the seniority integration
proceedings.14 The Court has no doubt that as is USAPAs consistent practice USAPA will
change its position when it needs to do so to fit its hard and unyielding view on seniority.
That is, having prevailed in convincing the Court that only certified representatives should
participate in seniority discussions, once USAPA is no longer a certified representative, it
will change its position and argue entities other than certified representatives should be
allowed to participate. The Courts patience with USAPA has run out. USAPA avoided
liability on the DFR claim by the slimmest of margins and the Court has serious doubts that
USAPA will fairly and adequately represent all of its members while it remains a certified
representative. But all the Court can do at this stage is implore USAPA to, in the words of
CAB, make every effort to see that [the West Pilots] are given extensive consideration, and
that their interests are fairly and fully represented during seniority integration. National
Airlines, Acquisition, 84 C.A.B. 408, 477 (1979). And when USAPA is no longer the
certified representative, it must immediately stop participating in the seniority integration."
Claxon, you are celebrating your loss.
Pyrrhic is a victory that inflicts such a devastating toll on the victor that it is tantamount to
defeat.
CactusPilot1 said:
dear angry f/o,
Where where you then and where are you now? Loosen your 675 tie and listen angry f/o. Dicta? Whats in your bid lately?
What do you have to show for your efforts and financial support over the last seven years? The nic was published in 2007. Ask david braid about his career advancement. Ask david braid what amr management told him after watching his side show, yes "side" show.
When you walk around with your 675 dollar tie, it only garners a little pity after many chuckles. Every East pilots down to the last new hire has the ability to bid captain, has the ability to bid wide body. They can not fill the slots.
Your token merger committee will be to provide on a piece of paper what they brought to the merger. This will be compared to other participants. American Pilots and the legal bargaining agent for the US Airways pilots will then agree on fences and a list and it will then become law.
Normally pilot groups in a merger will fence what they have, this time the fence will be around what the west only has, PHX. American pilots and East pilots want to keep what they have, only west pilots want more then they had.
- Feb 10, 2011
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Claxon, you make me laugh. Go ahead and celebrate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFrsR9NByc4&sns=em
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFrsR9NByc4&sns=em
I am only celebrating the ability to discern reality. You west pilots provide no intelligent rebuttal to my or others posts, it does not go unnoticed.CactusPilot1 said:
There is no celebration, most East pilots are too busy to celebrate, they are busy keeping up with their advancement opportunities.
EastCheats
Veteran
- Mar 12, 2012
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It''s obvious that the court smelled a rat..... "Once USAPA is no longer a certified representative, it will change its position and argue entities other than certified representatives should be allowed to participate. The Courts patience with USAPA has run out. USAPA avoided liability on the DFR claim by the slimmest of margins and the Court has serious doubts that USAPA will fairly and adequately represent all of its members while it remains a certified representative."Claxon said:
The court predicted it. Changing positions, argue other entities should participate, etc. You want USTUPID LLC to act as if it were a union and pretend it was going to represent the West's interests, what a bunch of horse manure. Reps of U-decertified want to screw the West. Take your damn seat at the table, we'll take ours. USTUPID LLC will not be speaking for the West pilots. We'll leave those idiots to speak for the idiots who elected them. Be sure you have Jess do most of the talking. He's the gift which keeps on giving.
EastCheats
Veteran
- Mar 12, 2012
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View attachment 10577Claxon said:
ORDER
The Board orders APA to designate the West Pilots Merger Committee as
a full participant in the seniority integration process.
___________________________________ 1/9/15______________
Date
Joshua M. Javits, Chair
Jingle jingle
snapthis
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- Dec 23, 2009
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Keep dogging them, Marty
From: Marty Harper
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 2:17 PM
To: 'Brian O'Dwyer'
Cc: Kelly J. Flood; 'Jeff Freund'
Subject: Your January 12 letter
It arrived today. Thank you. It will be helpful. Your comments on Union Democracy made me smile. Much earlier in the life of USAPA before your involvement, Lee Seeham proclaimed: Democracy is the tyranny of the majority. He was right and that’s exactly what the West Pilots have been fighting ever since.
USAPA is no longer a collective bargaining representative under the RLA, notwithstanding the fact that it continues to act like one. It appears to be acting like nothing has changed, continually spending the excess funds in USAPA’s accounts like they belong exclusively to the former East Pilots. That is not true. Indeed, given the current situation and the now documented separateness of the East and West pilots on the issue of seniority, no USAPA monies at all should be spent on anything other than its dissolution and whatever legitimate obligations need to be satisfied.
I’m sure that it doesn’t need to be restated, but the USAPA Constitution allows dissolution to be deferred only until “the need for collective legal action on behalf of the pilot group” no longer exists. We can argue over exactly when that happened in the past, but all legitimate debate over this point stopped on January 9, 2015 with the Preliminary Arbitration decision. No one can or has reasonably identified any current “collective legal action” for both the East and West pilots combined. For example, the threat in your letter to Siegel to invoke arbitration over the payment of Mr. Javits’ invoice is most certainly not something that benefits both the East and West Pilots uniformly, and therefore cannot qualify as “collective legal action.” USAPA’s singular purpose in pursuing the threatened dispute resolution procedures under the MOU, if it so elects, is to harm the West Pilots, so USAPA funds cannot and should not be used to pay for any portion of that effort including your letter.
Your discussion on the relationship between the East BPR members and the East Officers is informative but beside the point. If the East BPR members have authorized an expenditure that is now not being spent (or has not been spent) on “collective legal action,” then under the Constitution, the Four National Officers need to stop this by ordering dissolution. The Officers can defer that decision but not beyond the point where there is no longer any need for “collective legal action.” That point has arrived. USAPA’s spending habits need to be shut down now. If they are not, the National Officers are breaching their fiduciary duties, along with the East BPR members who, according to you, have and continue to authorize the expenditure of these monies. Collectively, all of the current and future East leadership are responsible for stopping the expenditure of USAPA funds on all items that do not legitimately qualify as “collective legal action.”
Marty
From: Marty Harper
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 2:17 PM
To: 'Brian O'Dwyer'
Cc: Kelly J. Flood; 'Jeff Freund'
Subject: Your January 12 letter
It arrived today. Thank you. It will be helpful. Your comments on Union Democracy made me smile. Much earlier in the life of USAPA before your involvement, Lee Seeham proclaimed: Democracy is the tyranny of the majority. He was right and that’s exactly what the West Pilots have been fighting ever since.
USAPA is no longer a collective bargaining representative under the RLA, notwithstanding the fact that it continues to act like one. It appears to be acting like nothing has changed, continually spending the excess funds in USAPA’s accounts like they belong exclusively to the former East Pilots. That is not true. Indeed, given the current situation and the now documented separateness of the East and West pilots on the issue of seniority, no USAPA monies at all should be spent on anything other than its dissolution and whatever legitimate obligations need to be satisfied.
I’m sure that it doesn’t need to be restated, but the USAPA Constitution allows dissolution to be deferred only until “the need for collective legal action on behalf of the pilot group” no longer exists. We can argue over exactly when that happened in the past, but all legitimate debate over this point stopped on January 9, 2015 with the Preliminary Arbitration decision. No one can or has reasonably identified any current “collective legal action” for both the East and West pilots combined. For example, the threat in your letter to Siegel to invoke arbitration over the payment of Mr. Javits’ invoice is most certainly not something that benefits both the East and West Pilots uniformly, and therefore cannot qualify as “collective legal action.” USAPA’s singular purpose in pursuing the threatened dispute resolution procedures under the MOU, if it so elects, is to harm the West Pilots, so USAPA funds cannot and should not be used to pay for any portion of that effort including your letter.
Your discussion on the relationship between the East BPR members and the East Officers is informative but beside the point. If the East BPR members have authorized an expenditure that is now not being spent (or has not been spent) on “collective legal action,” then under the Constitution, the Four National Officers need to stop this by ordering dissolution. The Officers can defer that decision but not beyond the point where there is no longer any need for “collective legal action.” That point has arrived. USAPA’s spending habits need to be shut down now. If they are not, the National Officers are breaching their fiduciary duties, along with the East BPR members who, according to you, have and continue to authorize the expenditure of these monies. Collectively, all of the current and future East leadership are responsible for stopping the expenditure of USAPA funds on all items that do not legitimately qualify as “collective legal action.”
Marty
luvthe9
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Question of the century. They turned down the Nic, and passed on countless330 spots, little bus upgrades. Big $$$$$$Hope777 said:
Eric is not so smart is he.
Now they sell 675 dollar ties to raise cash for what they could have had.
Go figure.
Res literally losing his mind over what Fergie gave away. Years of venom, blaming East pilots for what they had. Pathetic.
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