2015 Pilot Discussion.

[EastUS1]

Ashame this pilot group does not have the backbone or unity the Spirt pilots did when they walked.

 
That's not the half of it. One must also factor in a tribe of drooling idiot "spartans", so used to having their tongues glued to management's shoe soles, always looking for ways to "turn in" their fellows, and of course actively campaigning in favor of management injunctions against not only their "fellows" but themselves in the process....well....just suffice it to say that a clique of worse-than-dead-weight lurks out in PHX.
 
Eastcheats: "The sooner jerks like you retire the better." Indeed Eastcheats, keep up with that noble "It's ALL about MEEEE!" philosophy. Honestly; can anyone even possibly imagine such fine people to be anything other than eagerly wannabe picket line crossers at their earliest opportunity?

 

[Res Judicata]

That's not the half of it. One must also factor in a tribe of drooling idiot "spartans", so used to having their tongues glued to management's shoe soles, always looking for ways to "turn in" their fellows, and of course actively campaigning in favor of management injunctions against not only their "fellows" but themselves in the process....well....just suffice it to say that a clique of worse-than-dead-weight lurks out in PHX.

You're confused. Scabs get no mercy A-hole. You earned the "fellows" you have in PHX and it will never end.

 

[EastUS1]

....keep up with that noble "It's ALL about MEEEE!" philosophy. Honestly; can anyone even possibly imagine such fine people to be anything other than eagerly wannabe picket line crossers at their earliest opportunity?

....You earned the "fellows" you have in PHX and it will never end.

 
I rest my case folks.
 
Per your BS about: "You're confused. Scabs get no mercy A-hole."...? Nice try son, but why then, was/is there wholesale support for those in "you'se" fine ranks that scabbed the Ansett pilots? Even among your "army's" proud list of top contributors, some of those fine "people" are proudly and "honorably" listed. Why's that?
 
I fully believe that you would be among the very first to eagerly cross any picket line yourself kid. Why should I or anyone else believe otherwise?
 
P.S. Actually Principled behavior for any cause or purpose larger than one's self isn't EVER based on "What's in it for me?", or any issues of childish anger, hurt feelings...or even just some angry little babies' self-righteous, crocodile tears.

 

[Claxon]

"After carefully considering the arguments of the parties, the Board finds
that the proper issue before it, therefore, is as follows: “Whether the APA has the
discretion to designate a West Pilots Merger Committee to participate in the
seniority Integration List (SLI) process and, if so, whether it should do so?”
 
 
"The West Pilots deny that the issue before the Board is whether or not West Pilots have an independent legal right to participate in the SLI proceedings.
Any attempt to reframe the issue in this manner should be dismissed by the
Board, the West Pilots insist. Whether the West Pilots have a separate and
independent legal right to engage in SLI negotiations and arbitration is irrelevant,
as APA has already decided as a matter of its discretion to appoint a West
Merger Committee."
 
According to the West Pilots, USAPA is merely attempting to confuse the
issue before the Board by recrafting the issue to be decided. The only issue to
be resolved, the West Pilots maintain, is whether APA has properly exercised its
discretion to appoint a West Merger Committee to ensure that the interests of
West Pilots are fully represented in the SLI process."
 
West, APA and American Pilots will listen and respond to your concerns, about as well as the AA Flight Management pilots listened and responded to david braids slide show presentation.

 

[Claxon]

You're confused. Scabs get no mercy A-hole. You earned the "fellows" you have in PHX and it will never end.

The eternal offer of non stop entertainment is appreciated.

 

[usfliboi]

The FAs did not even ask for it and Parker paid it, did he not?  The point is he has more money but is telling fibs that he doesn't.  The money he gifted the FAs is more than it would cost him to give us Calendar Day.  
 
He said he always does what he says... He said negotiations were over.. He found more money to give to the employees.  Some one's pants are on fire.  
 
I am having a hard time trusting Parker/Kirby/Glass when they say there is no way they can give us even a single item we are asking for, but he can still demand all 7 of his concession he wants from us..
 
 
He is negotiating with us while he is lying about not negotiating.   
 
Its time for them to pay Industry Standard total compensation.  They want it for cheap, and some will take the bait.  I get it.

Denial...you vote it down it will not be retro active...you will not get more monies... You wanted someone to trust...now you got it...folks this contract is above and beyond what most expected...please look beyond your childish games and vote smart...

 

[EastUS1]

Denial...you vote it down it will not be retro active...you will not get more monies... You wanted someone to trust...now you got it...folks this contract is above and beyond what most expected...please look beyond your childish games and vote smart...

 
So then, by your own estimation, your own group must've voted very stupidly, and yet saw considerable gains nonetheless? Seriously; are you merely some management shill, or just someone with an overly prounounced fondess for submissive surrender at the first chance?

 

[luvthe9]

You're confused. Scabs get no mercy A-hole. You earned the "fellows" you have in PHX and it will never end.

Huh? West pilot are the scabs, APA is well aware of your anti Union history.

 

[luvthe9]

Geez, nobody even knows the details yet, another MOU cram down, pay no attention to those details, just the small raise you are getting, our short sightedness will doom us again.


JCBA Vote

Voting opens Friday, Jan. 16 at 9 a.m. CST in the joint collective bargaining agreement ballot.
Voting ends Friday, Jan. 30 at 9 a.m. CST.
Voter packets will be mailed Jan. 16; however, if you have a VIN and PIN from a prior APA BallotPoint ballot, you may use that VIN and PIN in this ballot.
Change vote is authorized, with your last vote prior to the tally being the vote that counts.
For help, call the APA election coordinator at 817-302-2175 Monday–Friday between 9 a.m. and 4:30 p.m. CST after the vote opens.
Casting an informed vote on any matter before you is one of the most important things you can do as a union member.

Voting Rights

Per the APA Constitution and Bylaws, all "active members in good standing" have the right to vote. APA's elections department actually takes a broader approach and adds any status in which the pilot might have an opportunity to change to MBR status by the time of the tally. That includes furlough, medical disability inactive, military leave inactive and members in bad standing. A vote cast by a pilot in one of these other categories will not be counted unless the pilot becomes an "active member in good standing" prior to the tally.

Please review these sections of the C&B for specifics:

Article III "Membership"
Section 2.C "Classes of Membership"
Section 7.A–D "Membership Rights and Obligations"
Probationary Pilots

Probationary pilots are apprentice members. They will be sent voter packets; however, their votes will not be counted unless they have completed probation by the date of the tally. A pilot is on probation until he or she reaches 12 months of service or 400 hours of flying, whichever comes first. If you have a question about your probationary status, please contact the APA Membership Committee at 1-800-323-1470, ext. 2259, or [email protected].

 

[EastUS1]

Geez, nobody even knows the details yet, another MOU cram down, pay no attention to those details, just the small raise you are getting, our short sightedness will doom us again.

 
Indeed. While as a fairly "short timer" now; I'd personally benefit from seeing this insult from management pass, but must vote against it on principle regardless, and out of my very reasonable concern for how it would shape the future for pilots at the world's largest airline, and the industry overall, for that matter. I can't get myself overly excited by disrespectfully contrived "deadlines" and purely insulting, BS hucksterism and "shell games" in general. If management had even the least sincerity about establishing a new "culture", they should rise to the opportunity to at least supposedly "do the right thing" now.  The truth is that they wan't to make of the once properly proud American Airlines just a larger version of Mesa/America West, and instead of EVER willingly doing "the right thing"...All the pilot group's being shown, as always, is their fullest and utmost contempt. "But wait! If you order in the next ten minutes, you'll also receive a free set of crushed gummy bear juicers to go with your retro lollipop maker!" (Subject to just a slight additional fee for shipping and handling, of course). "We'd just love to give you deeply and sincerely respected professionals more time to consider our great offer, but then, well, you might actually read the fine print, so just order now while supplies last! You only have 9 minutes left now!" The "new culture", if this is accurately observed evidence of such, would and should be properly thrown out in disgust if ever discovered in a long neglected Petri dish.
 
I'd ask all with just short term $ signs in their eyes, especially those with many years to go, to take all the time needed to examine this "offer" in fullest detail, since it very much would shape your future for many years to come. "A year passes like nuthin" but your career conditions won't.

 

[Phoenix]

Denial...you vote it down it will not be retro active...you will not get more monies... You wanted someone to trust...now you got it...folks this contract is above and beyond what most expected...please look beyond your childish games and vote smart...

 
 
Denial?  The FAs received TWO pay raises AFTER arbitration.  If you deny that, you can send the extra pay this way.  

 

[luvthe9]

Pilots comments to the BOD about the Kirby 2 proposal

I want to go to Arbitration
Insulting. Move scope from one area to another and tell us they pulled scope off the table.
Insulting. Pay proposal that doesn't include profit sharing. Insulting. qol issues go unresolved.
THE LARGEST AIRLINE IN THE WORLD AND THEY PUT THIS ACROSS THE TABLE?
This is an insult from the company. Along with the pay there has to be quality of life improvements.
Send this back to them and tell them to come up with a real proposal.
Please reject this proposal and accept no concessions on SCOPE.
Unless there is something behind the curtain to all of this in our "quality of life" then I support this being rejected at the board level.
I hope that you are as insulted as I am. I am ready for arbitration
Clearly, IMO, the BOD will need to flatly reject and counter this slap in the face. No need to involve the membership
Please, no more extensions, no more delays. Proceed with the agreed to cost-neutral Arbitration.
Just say no! Hand them back their sheet of paper and tell them to try again when they truly value our service. The raise is 16 months away and that is fine.
No QOL Improvements = No Vote
Delta Book rates plus 3 compounded...
NO QUID (they already have that... THE AIRLINE)
NO contract DURATION extension
No Extension!
No Give on SCOPE!
No concessions! We already gave - TWICE
NO Middle of the night landings! That is just another Quality of Life give away.
NO NO NO!
Please do NOT send this piece of garbage proposal to a vote
I will vote no on anything that even resembles this POS.
the company offer is not adequate to even consider for a five year contract. Return that piece of paper to the sender.
Please do not negotiate from this insult.
Industry Leading Contract NOW!!
Absolutely not. Go to arbitration
The company's proposal is not only NOT comprehensive, it is NOT "industry leading."
No to Parker.
The "comprehensive non-proposal" from Kirby/Parker is DOA.
What Kirby put on the table is a joke
Not only was the "offer" insulting; the manner in which it was delivered (talking points with little specifics) was disgusting.
We pilots do an A+ job for a company that makes A+ profits. This "proposal" is a D-
A total slap in the face! Pay rates would have to go up another 15% if they refuse profit sharing.
They blew it. Only going to do my job & no one else's. So much for a new day.
Industry lagging W2 with industry lagging work rules and neglected QOL issues is an insult to every pilot here
Please vote no on the company proposal.
It's an insult and I for one would rather wait another year to attain already agreed upon pay rates without all of the give backs
Disgusted. Disrespectful. A class of 5th graders could have came up with a more "comprehensive" proposal!
To be clear - AAs offer is wholly unacceptable.
does not take into account what Delta is really making or going to make with profit sharing
Make an Industry leading counter and put the ball back in their court.
This is at least 20-25% behind Delta. Our best leverage is to terminate all cooperation if we do not receive a Delta contract
Tell them to go to hell, never expect anybody to do more than their job, and we will see you in arbitration.
Hope they like a United/Continental outcome versus a Delta/Northwest!
The membership pilots just got a swift kick in the nuts. I think we are all on the same page going forward that this "offer" is DOA.
Please vote NO and AAG management will have to live with the consequences!
Doug Parker was quoted as saying that we'll get a Delta contract when we make Delta profits. Well, we've exceeded Delta's profits, and virtually all analysts agree that AA will continue to make profits of at least $4 billion per year into the foreseeable future.
"DAL + 3%" is industry lagging even without considering profit sharing. We need to get DAL's "new 2015" pay rates plus profit sharing.
You granted an extension for this proposal! Pathetic! Time to act like a union! Nothing has changed
Ask them if they want a DAL merger or a United operation.
After seeing the pathetic offer by management, I realized this management team is only different in name
You have got to be kidding me?!!!
In light of the totally unacceptable proposal from management, and in light of the staggering profits currently being made by this company, it is clear that the tactics of APA have to change.
No Way!
2015 pay rates below 2001 rates!
No profit sharing!
Please send the management "comprehensive" proposal back to them with a big red NO scribbled on it.
If you chose to negotiate with them again please let them know that the honeymoon is definitely over with the pilots of APA and that they have wasted a golden opportunity to get cooperation and more productivity from the pilots.
falls way short of delta... No thx
The proposal is unacceptable. Please do not send this POS to the membership. The new management is the same as the old. It's obvious they do not require our goodwill, just send it to arbitration and be done with it. Maybe Delta will get a raise? We might be better off....
The company offer is solely inadequate. I am prepared to wait till 2016 for my raise as contractually agreed upon
To sum up……F&%# THEM!!!
The company trumpeted their carefully worded "industry leading pay" (not contract) DAL+3% to make us look like the bad guys when we turn it down.
INSULTING.
In light of the Comprehensive Proposal grab, I am asking the BoDs to NOT vote on the proposal. Just send it back
APA needs to officially make LOS a prerequisite to negotiations.
No Extension and Industry leading Contract. I vote to go to arbitration/cost neutral contract if need be instead of accepting this company proposal
Not even anywhere close to actual "Delta +3%". Send it back. I'll take arbitration.
The Proposal is DOA.
No Arbitration
NO CHANGES TO SCOPE
a LIMITED EXTENSION only IF there is basis for Negotiation
This is a complete NON STARTER!!!!! No mention or movement on any of the critical issue the pilots absolutely REQUIRE!!
Please send this junk back to Parker, don't vote on it and certainly please do not send to us.
Please strongly consider this deal and send it to the members.
We have been played...... You are forgiven.....Now let's get REAL with the Membership about HERE AND NOW!
Spin it any way you want, I have a right to vote. Send it to the membership.
I would rather make less money than give up scope or work rules!
Send the proposal to the membership for a vote.
Not one seat. No amount of $ justifies an increase in scope
Enough is enough! No more extensions. The company has had plenty of time to do the right thing. If we do not have an honest proposal by the deadline, I'm okay with arbitration.
I simply want to add my name to the long list of pilots that ask you to stand firm and insist on an ILC
We need an Industry Leading Contract NOW!
Refuse to counter nor meet with management. (especially this "son of Brundreg" dude). A three word response sends a huge message to all parties: " not good enough".
The 3% a year is not even joke level. We need ISC!!
please turn down this proposal, it is insulting to our profession.
You will need to get much higher pay rates without profit sharing as part of the deal.
Otherwise I see no reason to vote for the "Economic Package"
Please don't even bother voting on the company proposal. Just send it back. It only showed that the company has no respect for us. This proposal looks as if it was thrown together in a meeting that couldn't have taken more than 2 hours. It's a joke.
Put it a paper bag, poop on it, light it on fire and leave on the CP doorstep
Totally lacking any meaningful contract advancements, it was far short of adequately addressing our concerns.
All 8 are not even a consideration for me to compromise. We are the most profitable airline. Please act accordingly
To quote The Who… Meet the new boss, same as the old boss

 

[Phoenix]

 
 
Things that make you wonder before ya cast your ballot:  
 
 

The Company will consider feedback from the APA Safety Committee when implementing the elimination of the Domestic and International Divisions.
 
Implementation Steps will require IT changes.  
 

 




 
 

 

[EastUS1]

Pilots comments to the BOD about the Kirby 2 proposal

THE LARGEST AIRLINE IN THE WORLD AND THEY PUT THIS ACROSS THE TABLE?
This is an insult from the company. Along with the pay there has to be quality of life improvements.
Send this back to them and tell them to come up with a real proposal.

NO QUID (they already have that... THE AIRLINE)
NO contract DURATION extension
No Extension!
No Give on SCOPE!
No concessions! We already gave - TWICE
NO Middle of the night landings! That is just another Quality of Life give away.
NO NO NO!
Please do NOT send this piece of garbage proposal to a vote
I will vote no on anything that even resembles this POS.
.................
Totally lacking any meaningful contract advancements, it was far short of adequately addressing our concerns.
All 8 are not even a consideration for me to compromise. We are the most profitable airline. Please act accordingly
To quote The Who… Meet the new boss, same as the old boss

 
Bottom Line: "Doug Parker was quoted as saying that we'll get a Delta contract when we make Delta profits. Well, we've exceeded Delta's profits, and virtually all analysts agree that AA will continue to make profits of at least $4 billion per year into the foreseeable future."  So what's even the possible excuse for the same CEO who said that, and equally said on several occassions that he was all about doing "the right thing"?....?

 

[Phoenix]

 
 

1. 
   [SIZE=11pt]Bid lines will be constructed with a minimum of ten (10) calendar days off,..[/SIZE]
   

 
 

 
 
Hmmm... Allows 21 day lines, and NO CALENDAR day pay..