2015 Pilot Discussion.

[nycbusdriver]

 
 
 
...If we go to arbitration and simply take the current Green Book, for only
11 more months, then what is Delta’s becomes ours….think about it.
Haste makes waste...
 

 
Ok, Woody.  Tell us exactly how that works.
 
"What is Delta's"  (pay rate, working conditions, profit sharing, in short, the Delta pilot contract)  "becomes ours."
 
I am just dying to hear how you can say that, and really believe it.
 
And just 11 months from now.

 

[nycbusdriver]

It's OK to be the lowest paid, somebody has to be at the bottom, There's more than just money..

 
Well, while it is true that somebody has to be at the bottom, I find it disingenuous to hear you post as a reasonable thing something the east pilots had been taunting the west pilots over.  While it was terrible for AWA to "drag down" the rest of the industry as bottom feeders, all of the sudden it becomes acceptable here?
 
And, weren't the east pilots in that uneviable position long enough to suit you?
 
"Thank you, sir, may I have another?"

 

[Phoenix]

Regardless of how you vote this is your contract....minus retro active pay...if you didn't learn fro us...apfa...then maybe reality isn't something many are interested in. I do agree with Kirby...to allow a 24% increase to become a negative thing is sad ....for those complaining about this contract is even more sad. But everyone has a right to vote how they wish...in this case it actually doesn't matter...

 
You are right.  We can learn from the FAs.  They voted down their contract and went to arbitration.. then Parker gave you back the $80M that you turned down and then gave you another 4% pay raise that you didn't even ask for... AFTER negotiations were  over and arbitration was over...
 
So to maximize our pay and get another two pay raises, we need to vote this POS down.  

 

[nycbusdriver]

 
You are right.  We can learn from the FAs.  They voted down their contract and went to arbitration.. then Parker gave you back the $80M that you turned down and then gave you another 4% pay raise that you didn't even ask for... AFTER negotiations were  over and arbitration was over...
 
So to maximize our pay and get another two pay raises, we need to vote this POS down.  

 
More spin.  
 
The 4% was applicable for many more employee groups than the flight attendants, and it had nothing at all to do with their particular process.  But, if twisting the facts suits your fancy, have at it.  But don't expect people to buy the BS.

 

[Phoenix]

 
Well, while it is true that somebody has to be at the bottom, I find it disingenuous to hear you post as a reasonable thing something the east pilots had been taunting the west pilots over.  While it was terrible for AWA to "drag down" the rest of the industry as bottom feeders, all of the sudden it becomes acceptable here?
 
And, weren't the east pilots in that uneviable position long enough to suit you?
 
"Thank you, sir, may I have another?"

 
 
Negotiations are over.  Didn't you hear?  Negotiations are over... Really!  They really are.  Kirby always means what he says.  
 
 

 
Kirby is spouting off about trust issues....    

 

[Phoenix]

 
More spin.  
 
The 4% was applicable for many more employee groups than the flight attendants, and it had nothing at all to do with their particular process.  But, if twisting the facts suits your fancy, have at it.  But don't expect people to buy the BS.

 
 
The FAs did not even ask for it and Parker paid it, did he not?  The point is he has more money but is telling fibs that he doesn't.  The money he gifted the FAs is more than it would cost him to give us Calendar Day.  
 
He said he always does what he says... He said negotiations were over.. He found more money to give to the employees.  Some one's pants are on fire.  
 
I am having a hard time trusting Parker/Kirby/Glass when they say there is no way they can give us even a single item we are asking for, but he can still demand all 7 of his concession he wants from us..
 
 
He is negotiating with us while he is lying about not negotiating.   
 
Its time for them to pay Industry Standard total compensation.  They want it for cheap, and some will take the bait.  I get it.  

 

[nycbusdriver]

 
 
 
Its time for them to pay Industry Standard total compensation.  They want it for cheap, and some will take the bait.  I get it.  

 
I do agree that while the Tempe Brain Trust is still basically a bastion of deception and lies, the fact is that we agreed to a neutral arbitration.  
 
So, really, the bottom line is not that: "It's time for them to pay Industry Standard total compensation."
 
It's time for us to understand what we signed on for, and be ready to be on the Green Book, modified by arbtirators to align the pilot groups, at MTA agreed rates until the amendable date (2018?....then a few years of negotiation without any pay raises.)  They do not owe us anything more than that, because that is what the entire pilot group ratified to get the deal done.
 
We can play the game that "Kirby is still negotiating while saying he is not."  It appears to be true.  But we need to understand that the game is Russian Roulette, and at some point Parker, Kirby, et al may just decide it is worth their while and just leave the pilots behind.
 
It's okay to say that what Kirby proposed will still keep us at the bottom once Delta and United get their contracts.  That is likely true.  Will the Green Book and MTA pay rates change that "bottom feeder" position?  That is the alternative.

 

[Res Judicata]

I do agree that while the Tempe Brain Trust is still basically a bastion of deception and lies, the fact is that we agreed to a neutral arbitration.  
 
So, really, the bottom line is not that: "It's time for them to pay Industry Standard total compensation."
 
It's time for us to understand what we signed on for, and be ready to be on the Green Book, modified by arbtirators to align the pilot groups, at MTA agreed rates until the amendable date (2018?....then a few years of negotiation without any pay raises.)  They do not owe us anything more than that, because that is what the entire pilot group ratified to get the deal done.
 
We can play the game that "Kirby is still negotiating while saying he is not."  It appears to be true.  But we need to understand that the game is Russian Roulette, and at some point Parker, Kirby, et al may just decide it is worth their while and just leave the pilots behind.
 
It's okay to say that what Kirby proposed will still keep us at the bottom once Delta and United get their contracts.  That is likely true.  Will the Green Book and MTA pay rates change that "bottom feeder" position?  That is the alternative.

You're not suggesting that an east pilot actually needs to be prepared to honor their agreements are you? That's unacceptable!!! The hardliners pissed away their pensions and pay for decades. Why would they quit now?

 

[luvthe9]

 
"What is Delta's"  (pay rate, working conditions, profit sharing, in short, the Delta pilot contract)  "becomes ours."
 
.

We would be very lucky to get a Delta contract, unfortunately we will be bottom feeders when this is all said and done, but yes you will get a nice raise yet need to look at the whole deal.

 

[luvthe9]

  
 
Its time for them to pay Industry Standard total compensation.  They want it for cheap, and some will take the bait.  

Most of the PHL a guys I know some senior some junior are NO votes.

 

[luvthe9]

Oh, and...
 
Goodness, gracious me!  The SKY IS FALLING DOWN!

Your right the LGA update was a little dramactic, Should have read. THE PILOT GROUP IS CAVING.

 

[Phoenix]

 
I do agree that while the Tempe Brain Trust is still basically a bastion of deception and lies, the fact is that we agreed to a neutral arbitration.  
 
..

 
They are the ones negotiating with us.  They are the ones asking us for 7 industry standard concession that they can't get in arbitration.  We don't have to give up more concession to our contract.  They can't have those concessions unless we give them.  
 

 

[EastUS1]

You're not suggesting that an east pilot actually needs to be prepared to honor their agreements are you? That's unacceptable!!! The hardliners pissed away their pensions and pay for decades. Why would they quit now?

 
Oh just stop. There are already countless examples posted of "spartans"/"useful idiots" eagerly wearing management issued knee pads and "worshipping" the likes of parker and kirby. "You'se" really don't need to add any more. Stop slobbering all over management's shoe soles kid.
 
Perhaps your mighty "army" should consider awarding yourselves yet another proud "decoration": Noble Knights of the Purple Tutu...or perhaps Dreaded Dire Wolves of the Diva, whichever "you'se" think best.
Hmm, since you're part of a proud group who's former "leader" saw fit to, on camera and for all the world to see, directly ask the CEO how he "should turn in" your fellow pilots, well, just award yourselves both heroic medals....and per "you'se" subsequent fantasies of "honor"?...Please don't make us all laugh too hard now, ok?

 

[EastUS1]

 
They are the ones negotiating with us.  They are the ones asking us for 7 industry standard concession that they can't get in arbitration.  We don't have to give up more concession to our contract.  They can't have those concessions unless we give them.  
 

 
 
Exactly.

 

[luvthe9]

They are the ones negotiating with us.  They are the ones asking us for 7 industry standard concession that they can't get in arbitration.  We don't have to give up more concession to our contract.  They can't have those concessions unless we give them.  
 

Ashame this pilot group does not have the backbone or unity the Spirt pilots did when they walked.