2015 Pilot Discussion.

[Claxon]

I thought the arbitrators were doing the arbitration.
Once again..
You're getting the Nic. Not your getting the Nic.
I'm laughing at your, (notice the lack of an apostrophe) stupidity.

No, nobody is getting the NIC. The Nic is something that was never implemented in a JCBA.
We will take the word of Scott Kirby over an angry 2004 hire.

 

[EastCheats]

No, nobody is getting the NIC. The Nic is something that was never implemented in a JCBA.
We will take the word of Scott Kirby over an angry 2004 hire.

Go ahead take Scott Kirby's word. We know what that's worth.

It's not going to influence the outcome of SLI.

 

[Claxon]

ovember 11, 2008 (Q&A in Phoenix with Doug Parker)

Pilot: . . . . My question though is I was at the hearing for the furloughed guys and one of the possibilities they were discussing is moving 190s to the west and cant do that. You know why.

Parker: Why

Pilot: Binding arbitration. So the company believes in binding arbitration. We have a binding arbitration for seniority. Does the company believe in binding arbitration or not?

Parker: The binding arbitration youre talking about I think Im pretty sure what you are talking about that was an ALPA process that resulted in binding arbitration. That wasnt a company process. Thats ALPA to ALPA seniority integration that says if you cant get it resolved we go to binding arbitration is ALPA policy not company policy. If the companys in binding arbitration, yea we believe in binding arbitration.



Here is Doug Parker, the CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER OF AMERICAN AIRLINES
Denial is a sad attribute of America west 2004 hires.....

 

[nycbusdriver]

Legacy AA pilots, whom do you believe? The angry 2004 hires of america west, or Scott Kirby?

 
Geez!  On its face, that seems to be a real lose-lose choice.  But, in this case, Kirby actually spoke the truth of the situation.

 

[Claxon]

SPINTHIS/Eastcheats/SNAPTHIS is cornered. Legacy AA pilots- ask yourself this one question: do you have any binding arbitrated decisions that are approaching 8 yrs after the decision that are not yet implemented? Then why is the Nicolau Award of 2007 not in place?
Answer: it was an ALPA arbitration Award that was never ratified in a JCBA between America west pilots and east pilots. ALPA was removed from the property. A JCBA never happened between east and west. Then came the AA merger which forever erased the chance of a stand alone east- west JCBA. SAYONARA NICOLAU AWARD.

 

[Claxon]

Wye River: ALPAs Last Stand

The hunkering down at Wye River this past February was ALPAs last ditch effort to reach a consensual agreement and hopefully save the Mother Ship in the process. Wye River failed, and heres our take on why.

We all know what happened. Both sides claimed to be right, and that the other side was wrong. They couldnt find any common ground. This was despite all of ALPAs resources and Garland Jones Elephants in the Room speech. Not much more to say.

We believe Wye River was doomed by an ALPA miscalculation, not just the resolve of the West to hold the line on the NIC. ALPA shot itself in the foot. We at U-Turn cant hold the West MEC entirely responsible for what we believe was bad information that led to their decision. We believe ALPAs misinterpretation of the Wilson Polling was their fatal mistake. ALPA thought the vote was going to be a near tie. The Wilson Poll presented both sides with the same polling information (Source: 3 West pilots and 2 East pilots who were actually there).

The West MEC approval rating was over 70%, with 90% firmly committed to vote for ALPA, 9% voting other and only 1% voting for USAPA.

The East MEC approval rating was >20%, with 40% firmly committed to vote for USAPA and 11% for ALPA. 20% were undecided. Add the two sides proportionally and you get close to a tie.

But East responses only added up to 71%, because 29% refused to take the poll. That 29% is the key to an obvious ALPA mistake. ALPA never understood their voting power. That polling was before Wye River and a month before ALPAs February 29th Friday Night Massacre fired the elected PHL Reps and put them into trusteeship.

ALPA had plenty of clues that they were in deep trouble last fall. USAPA got 3,000 signatures in two months. The West propaganda machine pooh-poohed the card campaign, saying it would fall flat on its face. It didnt.

Then ALPA misread an accidental event which occurred while Wye River was being planned, USAPAs chopped up ballots. While the West MEC ridiculed the error with a cartoon in their February 5th MEC Update (If you cant trust USAPA with a pair of scissors, how can we trust them with our careers?), USAPA put out a notice through their communications network to resubmit cards. They got 3,100 returns in ten days. If ALPA even noticed, they certainly didnt react.

Back to Wye River. Did West Merger Attorney and West MEC advisor Jeff Freund really walk out of talks because the MEC refused to give on the NIC or did West MC Chairman Ken Stravers chase him out? Did the West MEC shut their MC out? Did the West LCC members ever get down to nitty-gritty negotiations, which included throwing the West FOs under the bus? Did the East MEC ever come off DOH? And were there really five elephants in the meeting room? Or were there six?

NOW YOU KNOW THE STORY OF THE " YOU WON'T GET 200 CARDS".

 

[Claxon]

Merger Committee Update
February 3, 2009

The Merger Committee was in PHX this week with attorney Lee Seham for the purpose of deposing the six named plaintiffs in the Addington Federal Court Case. Deposed were Don Addington, John Bostic, Mark Burman, Afshin Iranpour, Steve Wargocki and Roger Velez.

Some of the key developments:

The troubling inability of the plaintiffs to clearly identify their fiduciary responsibility to the class they are seeking to represent;

For the judge to grant class certification, he must be convinced the plaintiffs understand their duties to the class. If they don’t, then we have to wonder about their pre-deposition preparation.

Their collective inability to coherently describe the federal complaint filed on their behalf, with several of the deponents unable to even identify the number of counts therein;

One despondent thought there were 5 counts, others could not name the actual three counts. Didn’t anyone do their homework?

The admission by plaintiffs that ALPA National was pressuring the West MEC to modify the Nicolau list;

If the ALPA process was final and binding why was there a Rice committee, a blue ribbon panel and Wye River? But then, our own Merger attorney made it clear in a court filing back in July 2007 that “the proposed pilot seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy that ALPA will adopt as its bargaining position to be presented to the Company, but which (like a union bargaining position in any matter) the Company is not required to accept.”

Notwithstanding ALPA National’s posture, the plaintiffs still refuse to consider any settlement that modifies this list;
None of the plaintiffs could cogently describe USAPA’s seniority proposal, and most of them had not even read it;
A Leonidas LLC “control group” composed of non-plaintiffs exercising substantial control of litigation strategy;

This violates the fiduciary standard. We have to ask: Who is controlling the class? Who is pulling the strings? And do they fairly represent the class?

One of the four Leonidas LLC directors is apparently now employed as an American Airlines pilot;\

Having Kevin Horner associated in any way with this DFR only hurts the effort. How can he adequately meet the fiduciary requirements to fairly represent the class? Our sources have told us that Kevin Horner’s current union, the APA, is furious with him for his participation in a DFR suit against another union.

Several of the deponents were ignorant of the fact that their attorneys had declined USAPA’s invitation to participate in the TA-9 arbitration hearing, which effectively left in USAPA’s hands the defense of the West pilots’ asserted right not to be furloughed until the prior furloughing of all pilots on the New Hire seniority list. The plaintiffs did concede that they “had heard” ! that USAPA had done a good job defending the West pilots’ interests in that case.

Count one, improper furloughs from the third list also known as TA-9 was handled without any input from the plaintiffs attorneys. They no-showed the event, despite being requested to participate.

It is our view that this week’s depositions further highlight the underlying strength of our defense and the increasingly difficult circumstances in which the plaintiffs find themselves. The Merger Committee remains firmly committed to represent all US Airways pilots’ seniority interests in a fair and equitable manner. There were strong indications throughout the depositions that the plaintiffs in the Addington federal court case are not representative of the former America West pilots as a whole. All pilots are reminded of the importance of understanding USAPA’s seniority proposal. If you have not yet had the opportunity to watch the 10-minute video containing the description of the Conditions and Restrictions, please take the time to do so. Thank you.

USAPA Merger Committee



Again, U-Turn is willing to publish any and all comments, especially from “The Army.”


Expanded quote from Jeff Freund in Stephen Vs McIlvenna, filed 7/24/2007:

Thus, the “arbitration award” Plaintiffs purportedly seek to “vacate” is in actuality the proposed pilot seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy that ALPA will adopt as its bargaining position to be presented to the Company, but which (like a union bargaining position in any matter) the Company is not required to accept. Application, Ex.1 at 2,9 (ALPA will present to the company the merged seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy arbitration procedures, and “ALPA will use all reasonable means at its disposal to compel the company to accept and implement the merged seniority list”). Plaintiffs seek review of this ALPA bargaining position developed through ALPA Merger Policy, and, while couching it in the terms of “vacating” and “arbitration,” the relief they actually seek is a review of the product of ALPA’s Merger Policy, and, ultimately, alteration of ALPA’s bargaining proposal to the company…Plaintiff’s Application to “vacate” an “arbitration award” that does not establish any enforceable seniority rights in a collective bargaining agreement with the Company, but which merely sets out ALPA’s bargaining position to be presented to the company, is not a state law claim at all but rather an artfully pled Federal claim for breech of Duty of Fair Representation.

 

[luvthe9]

I thought the arbitrators were doing the arbitration.
:

Maybe or maybe not, but there will be no NIC, sorry should have taken the NIC when offered.




"Yes, the East offered the NIC. They just wanted to protect their retirement attrition, which stalled by the change in Age-60. Looking back, that offer must look like a home run to any West pilot right now,"



You keep reading this boy!!

 

[Claxon]

Kevin Horner did an abysmal job on the merger committee of AWA as you can read. The AWA Leonidas control group ADMITTED in deposition that the Nicolau was merely a proposal. You read it above......

 

[EastCheats]

Kevin Horner did an abysmal job on the merger committee of AWA as you can read. The AWA Leonidas control group ADMITTED in deposition that the Nicolau was merely a proposal. You read it above......

I sure like the direction you guys are taking. While you are obsessed with Horner, Kirby, Wye River
and whatever, our team is well prepared for arbitration. If recent history is an indicator you'll be equally prepared as you were a few months ago.

 

[traderjake]

What's there to prepare?
 
It's DOH or "We're comfortable with our position".    

 

[Claxon]

I sure like the direction you guys are taking. While you are obsessed with Horner, Kirby, Wye River
and whatever, our team is well prepared for arbitration. If recent history is an indicator you'll be equally prepared as you were a few months ago.

Waiting for you to propose an arbitration which was an ALPA decision, one that was never implemented. On steroids no less. That, will be funny.

 

[Claxon]

What's there to prepare?
 
It's DOH or "We're comfortable with our position".    

It's Nic or nothing for your pals. Look where that ended up. They are locked in PHX with little Airbus aircraft.

 

[EastCheats]

It's Nic or nothing for your pals. Look where that ended up. They are locked in PHX with little Airbus aircraft.

Arbitrators tend to favor the work of other arbitrators and reject the work of non-arbitrators such as Jess Pauley as noted in the mini-arb.

Judges as well as noted in my signature line.

 

[Claxon]

Arbitrators tend to favor the work of other arbitrators and reject the work of non-arbitrators such as Jess Pauley as noted in the mini-arb.
Judges as well as noted in my signature line.

Your opinion. The arbitrators in the CAL/UAL arbitration clearly cited Nicolau as being problematic. Thus the longevity awarded. Ask 767Jetzz. That is why he left and came back to LCC.