2015 Fleet Service Discussion
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La Li Lu Le Lo
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- May 29, 2010
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Like a lot of people I have mixed feeling about it.WeAAsles said:
My father fought to get the UNION in his workplace. He is an avid UNION supporter and was a UNION officer for part of his career. He has told me how the UNION improved working conditions and allowed for an increased standard of living. He is retired now with both he and his wife drawing pension and the benefit of a 401k. I can't deny that the UNION benefited the workforce where HE works.
The other side of the coin is my own experience working under a UNION. What I saw was senior people throwing junior people under the bus for a payoff (buyouts and Junior Fleet Service come to mind). I saw lazy incompetent people drawing a paycheck that could not hold a job outside of a UNION. I saw the UNION pushing political agendas that had nothing to do with American Airlines, its workforce, or labor in general. I have seen the living standard decline as the company pulled record profits.
Basically I feel the TWU has become absolutely complacent and they have no motivation to try to earn their keep. Given the decline of the standard of living for the workforce of American Airlines what the hell are we paying them for? It seems to me they are more interested in pushing their political agendas than they are representing their workforce, all on the backs of their so called "membership".
If you do not pay the fees you should not expect to benefit from it. The flip side of that is if I pay fees I expect something from my investment, and all TWU has done is LOSE ground.WeAAsles said:
If you ask me they pay what they want anyway. Let me give you some examples, Junior Fleet and Mechanic programs, a 9 year top out, a gutted retirement program, and 2 concessionary contracts over my 12 years of employment.WeAAsles said:
I had the privilege to pay for all of those "services".
The company dictates the terms of employment regardless of rather you are UNION or not.
Good luck getting the company to agree with that. More than likely seniority would be honored but it would be based off of hire date and apply to everyone.WeAAsles said:
I totally agree with you.WeAAsles said:
I will also say I have NEVER seen an employee dragged into the offices at any job and terminated unless they were a constant problem or did something REALLY stupid. Not one time.
Do you want to work with employees that are constantly causing problems or making poor decisions?
Just like I don't think someone should be FORCED to compensate an entity for unsatisfactory services.WeAAsles said:
Now it is my turn.
Justify me having to pay the TWU for their services (as a condition of employment) when I lost year after year after year after year.
If UNIONS are so great explain to me how I accomplished more in 1 year (pay and benefits) than I did 10 working under the TWU contract.
WeAAsles
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- Oct 20, 2007
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La Li Lu Le Lo said:
For me personally this tells me all I need to know.
53-7062 Laborers and Freight, Stock, and Material Movers, Hand detail 2,284,650 0.6% 17.231 $11.52 $12.83 $26,690 0.3%
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#53-0000
Kev3188
Veteran
Lali-- I think you are conflating your experience with the TWU ATD with organized labor as a whole.
My own time as a union member much more closely resembles your father's story than it does yours...
My own time as a union member much more closely resembles your father's story than it does yours...
Kev3188
Veteran
"Jim Little."La Li Lu Le Lo said:
Solidarity
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- Aug 26, 2005
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L/L/L/L/L.......Rome was not built in a day. You need to give Harry and his team an opportunity to forge their own way. From all that I can gather the TWU and IAM are working together to better Labor on the AA/US properties. Once the NMB rules, there should be movement within the Association and you must give this venture time to show us what they can do. I understand your frustration but as WeAAsles, Kev, 700 and others have stated this is an opportunity to have two labor groups work together in the same classes and crafts on the same property for the betterment of its membership. At what cost seems to be your biggest concern. Very understandable concern. If it wasn't for unions in the early 20th century my family would probably not have the opportunity to learn a trade or be part of making a difference rather that being exploited by corporate greed. Also, in a union it doesn't matter about race, religion, creed, etc. what a person is going to make as they put their time in (you get that, I understand)Kev3188 said:
My whole point is to help to be a part of the solution and before you point fingers at your leadership or the combined new leadership get to know their philosophies and ask the hard questions (most people are). I make phone calls to both the TWU and IAM whenever I have a concern and although it may take a couple of day to get back to me......they have. That is your union dues at work. Not only does local leadership help to make sure that employees are being treated fairly they also have the thankless task of being out there making sure that stuff does not materialize out of thin air by management to single out people because they are vocal. Everyone has that right of expression and you are employing that on this forum. I read this page as much as possible and it is refreshing that many individuals contribute to its long running debates.
If you really want to help out then get off this page and become active by becoming a steward. Visibility is the key and management at the stations just thinks that they can bully. We, as line workers, have the opportunity to show a presence and make a difference so long as our solidarity is strong.
La Li Lu Le Lo
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- May 29, 2010
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Maybe. I will say all the bad things I have ever heard about UNIONs were present in the TWU.Kev3188 said:
Then I come on here and see things like this.
What I took away from this is someone who is too damn lazy to do a perimeter check around the aircraft caused 7 Million dollars worth of damage and got 2 days suspension.700UW said:
There is making a mistake and then there is just being stupid, lazy, and careless.
He should have been fired.
What am I supposed to think when I see things like this posted on these forums?
Or how about this post from NewHampshire Black Bears......
http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/57053-thank-god-almightyim-a-union-man/#entry1080245
Today was (how shall I say) an interesting day at Amtrak, at Union Station in CHI, at my new position as a UNION ticket clerk.
It was like virtually every other day at 2pm with long lines. Ahhh, but today was special. Today was Election day for the Top Dogs in the IAM. (We're TCU-IAM) Our manager was in her usual position directing 'traffic' towards our positions BEFORE the last passenger BARELY vacated our individual positions. (Amtrak is very strict about our 30 min. lunches.) (Thirty minutes means 30 mins, not 30.5 minutes) The local president reminded us PM shift crew, to VOTE before the 6pm deadline, AND that we DO NOT have to use lunch time to vote.
Soooooo, a few of us, Locked up our Cash drawers, removed our keys, left the loooong passenger line standing, and stood in the looong line waiting to vote. (Ate a plate of food the UNION brought in, while standing in line).......... NOT a peep was heard from our CS Manager, who mysteriously DISSAPEARED, wearing a Looooong Puss !
"MY", I said to myself. She Never said a F'n word about us 'Walking Off' in the middle of a very busy time. ????
(Maybe it was because of that Lovely young Spanish Girl from the DEPARTMENT of LABOR, who was OBSERVING all facets of the Election)
Ahhh. The aroma of UNIONISM, in the early Afternoon. It sure can't be beat !
He is actually bragging about abusing Amtrak customers........
Reading things like this on this forum just reinforces the negative feelings I have about UNIONS.
These are not things I brought to this forum. These are comments made by some of the most vocal UNION supporters on here.
If you had witnessed all the negative stereotypes you hear about UNION employees in your own work place and that was your only UNION experience then came on here and read these comments what would you think?
It is worth noting I worked on the "white collar" side at American Airlines as well and did not have the problems with lazy, incompetent coworkers I did under the TWU umbrella.
I have to say it was a lot more productive and relaxing atmosphere.
Solidarity
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- Aug 26, 2005
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L/L/L/L/LLa Li Lu Le Lo said:
I am not going to get into a pissing match with you but your points are valid. Unions, in general, have a due diligence to represent ALL who have the possibility of discipline coming their way. Is there negligence at time? YES. Is it the Union's job to soften the blow, if possible? YES. The company has an investment in it's workforce also. Can some accidents be prevented. YES.
There are numerous analogies to deflect blame by both management and the Union, but at times it is also a grey area when administering discipline. You give a person a second chance to come back from a preventable accident they then, in most instances, become a sound piece for both the company and the union in making sure that safety is paramount in the workplace. I find that to be a win-win. And it builds solidarity amongst the workforce.
My last post for at least 6 month. I will be monitoring all the excellent points and counter-points until then.
La Li Lu Le Lo
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- May 29, 2010
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Where I work is non UNION as well and I make a good living.BLUTO said:
In fact I made more in one year than 10 working for American Airlines and have superior benefits. I did not have to pay a UNION for it either. I negotiated my own salary.
Just because Wal-Mart is sub par does not mean all non UNION jobs are.
You also have to consider that the employees of Wal-Mart are government subsidized. If they were cut off from Uncle Sam picking up the tab do you think Wal-Mart could get away with their compensation levels?
Come back when you actually have something to say with some merit.
La Li Lu Le Lo
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Nice post. +1.Solidarity said:
La Li Lu Le Lo
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- May 29, 2010
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I don't wish to rehash all the reasons I have for wanting to see TWU off property.BLUTO said:
I would like you to consider how much buying power you have lost in the last 15 years and how the concessions are going to impact your future.
I don't see any signs of the membership doing anything but losing every year for the foreseeable future.
You are paying for a service. Don't you think you deserve better than that?
I do.
By the way this is not a BLOG it is a forum.
ChockJockey
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- Dec 18, 2008
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La Li Lu Le Lo said:
I would like to hear them. I'd also like to know how you intend to influence people with your consistently confrontational and antagonistic tone and arguments based on hyperbole and name-calling.
La Li Lu Le Lo said:
But how again is it any of your business? You're not in any UNION. Do you work for AA? What is your basis of participation besides apparent bitterness and who are you that any of us should care what you have to say?
There have been a good number of people with a tenuous connection to events or none at all in the past that have come through these forums simply because they're a convenient soapbox for self-righteous and mean-spirited bloviating, who otherwise live emotionally-unfulfilled lives and fill the void by yelling at people on the internet. I'm wondering if you're not just another in a long line.
Have a great day!
:^)
