2015 Fleet Service Discussion

[AANOTOK]

Ok Guy's, I will apologize now for the hijack...but I figured this thread could answer it and I didn't want to start a new one or go back pages and try to find a related topic.
 
Anyway, I just listed my wife on a US metal and have printed the confirmation info. What do I do next or what does she do. Does she just show up at the gate before departure with id??? Or anything else need to be done before she goes? I'm assuming it's by seniority (after US employees)? Thanks in advance.

I guess no one flies US metal...
 
Thanks New England, no Sherman or Lynch for another year!

 

[WeAAsles]

I guess no one flies US metal...
 
Thanks New England, no Sherman or Lynch for another year!

Super Bowl Sunday. Social media very quiet.

 

[NYer]

The TWU was invited to start negotiations prep last November.
 
In a now famous October letter they decided to not attend those meetings but instead wanted to go over some "issues" they had with the Association agreement.
 
November went into December and the APFA ratified their JCBA. The APA continued their work towards a JCBA and the agents started their process with their JCBA negotiations.
 
December went into January. The APA ratified their JCBA and the agents continued work towards their own JCBA. During January word spread the TWU would begin their prep in February.
 
January has gone into February and now we hear their meetings may not begin until March.
 
SHMS

 

[robbedagain]

theyre still awaiting from the NMB on the joint union deal then after that the JCBA  not sure how much longer itll be before the NMB word comes out..

 

[WeAAsles]

The TWU was invited to start negotiations prep last November.
 
In a now famous October letter they decided to not attend those meetings but instead wanted to go over some "issues" they had with the Association agreement.
 
November went into December and the APFA ratified their JCBA. The APA continued their work towards a JCBA and the agents started their process with their JCBA negotiations.
 
December went into January. The APA ratified their JCBA and the agents continued work towards their own JCBA. During January word spread the TWU would begin their prep in February.
 
January has gone into February and now we hear their meetings may not begin until March.
 
SHMS

Have you heard any reason as to why the TWU is possibly now pushing back negotiations prep till March?

"Hopefully" there are now plans in motion to have negotiations prep be a joint affair with our IAM partners? I'd love to hear a new offer extended for both groups to get together at the Wippinger center so they can now discuss the items and strategies that yes could have been discussed months ago.

But I do also believe that having seen how the FA's and Pilots talks progressed and were ultimately agreed to gave our negotiators maybe a better bead on what the company may be thinking in regards to our talks?

We know the intentions are no Profit Sharing in exchange for a 7% premium over the Delta airlines top BASE rate. We also know that the company did implement some changes to the middle of each of the ratified contracts that did contain items not popular. What those "Asks" in Fleet may be is the question?

 

[NYer]

But I do also believe that having seen how the FA's and Pilots talks progressed and were ultimately agreed to gave our negotiators maybe a better bead on what the company may be thinking in regards to our talks?
 
--They seemed too busy to notice anything since they were concentrating on making modifications to those 3 pesky little items they wanted changed in the Association agreement. This further setback also shows those "hopeful" phone calls and get-togethers didn't happen and they now need even more time to get to the starting blocks.
 
October, gone....November, gone....December, gone....January, gone....February, ?
 

 

[WeAAsles]

 

But I do also believe that having seen how the FA's and Pilots talks progressed and were ultimately agreed to gave our negotiators maybe a better bead on what the company may be thinking in regards to our talks?
 
--They seemed too busy to notice anything since they were concentrating on making modifications to those 3 pesky little items they wanted changed in the Association agreement. This further setback also shows those "hopeful" phone calls and get-togethers didn't happen and they now need even more time to get to the starting blocks.
 
October, gone....November, gone....December, gone....January, gone....February, ?
 

 

Haven't heard if any of those "pesky items" were ever finally discussed or agreed to if any changes might be made? You know that pesky item where somewhere down the line a station may be transferred over to another Union to maintain the "System Ratio" 

I guess if you work maybe in a massive hub that wouldn't be any bother since the status quo that people are used to will never likely change?

But anyway I digress. Since a letter was put out signed by both union representatives in authority to do so, it's time to start moving on. Any further pesky items can be concerned about down the road I guess as they pop up. h34r:

 

[NYer]

Haven't heard if any of those "pesky items" were ever finally discussed or agreed to if any changes might be made? You know that pesky item where somewhere down the line a station may be transferred over to another Union to maintain the "System Ratio" 

I guess if you work maybe in a massive hub that wouldn't be any bother since the status quo that people are used to will never likely change?

But anyway I digress. Since a letter was put out signed by both union representatives in authority to do so, it's time to start moving on. Any further pesky items can be concerned about down the road I guess as they pop up. h34r:

 
You haven't heard, huh?
 
That means we wasted 4 months in "tough guy" antics and those issues are going to be addressed by arbitration, if they even file. What is happening now is EXACTLY what could of happened 4 months ago. What is happening now is EXACTLY what was suggested happened.
 
It took some 4 months to figure it out and it takes others even more time to figure it out. =/
 
And BTW, I guess those in big hubs can wait and wait since they're not affected by a prolonged negotiations like those that have been on the street, commuting or in a Preferential Hire situation. According to you, we all just need to be patient.

 

[cltrat]

patience my ass I'm tired of this pissing and moaning stall crap.
from where I see it leaders on both sides and the TWU in particular are more interested in keeping their 6 figure jobs than doing right by the dues paying members.
 
I can certainly see why most LAA members are not TWU fans

 

[mike33]

 
 
 
And BTW, I guess those in big hubs can wait and wait since they're not affected by a prolonged negotiations like those that have been on the street, commuting or in a Preferential Hire situation. According to you, we all just need to be patient.

 
  Check this out for preferential hiring.   In my station there are 2 LUS P/T lead positions open. I suggested that they pull the furlough list from the TWU for the station and give those from AA a chance to come back to this station. They said they don't have to offer them any PT LEAD positions because PT LEAD is not in the Agreement for PREFERENTIAL Hiring...............F**K that !!!!  Preferential means preferential no matter what it is before you go to the street and hire someone........PERIOD! 
 
 No blame to either union that negotiated that because only HP had p/t leads.... i totally blame the company for not doing the right thing... no skin off their backs. I just think their mindset is " its not in writing so we can do what we want"....

 

[Hope777]

 
You haven't heard, huh?
 
That means we wasted 4 months in "tough guy" antics and those issues are going to be addressed by arbitration, if they even file. What is happening now is EXACTLY what could of happened 4 months ago. What is happening now is EXACTLY what was suggested happened.
 
It took some 4 months to figure it out and it takes others even more time to figure it out. =/
 
And BTW, I guess those in big hubs can wait and wait since they're not affected by a prolonged negotiations like those that have been on the street, commuting or in a Preferential Hire situation. According to you, we all just need to be patient.

Your Learning.  The BIG Hubs and Class I Cities dont care about Anyone or Any Thing except themselves!  Just Ask any PMUS FSA in the Small cities that were paid less for years thanks to our so called Brother/Sisters

 

[WeAAsles]

Your Learning.  The BIG Hubs and Class I Cities dont care about Anyone or Any Thing except themselves!  Just Ask any PMUS FSA in the Small cities that were paid less for years thanks to our so called Brother/Sisters

Unfortunately you are mostly absolutely correct. They don't care because they either don't understand the ramifications of members bumping into their big cities or they have more than enough seniority that it won't affect them badly enough to care.

Similar to something like the "system ratio" agreement. Big hub members won't concern themselves with that because if they like or are used to their Union (Including those who want to run for union offices and have higher ambitions) They have nothing to worry about in the slightest because there will be no changes to affect them (Or those ambitions)

Sad reality that there are plenty out there who don't need to learn what you're preaching because they already know it VERY well.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
You haven't heard, huh?

No I haven't? I'm not in a leadership position to know these thing if they are not published. It seems you may be though if you have the answers?
 
 
That means we wasted 4 months in "tough guy" antics and those issues are going to be addressed by arbitration, if they even file. What is happening now is EXACTLY what could of happened 4 months ago. What is happening now is EXACTLY what was suggested happened.

Wasted? Really, how so? It seems to me that we are still waiting on the NMB to make it's decision on the Association and from there we still have to vote on it which will take at least another month possibly?

 
It took some 4 months to figure it out and it takes others even more time to figure it out. =/

An effort was made to correct some issues while there was time to do so. You personally have stated that you consider those items to only be pesky nuisances. Well maybe not everyone thinks the same way as you do. That's a shame.
 
And BTW, I guess those in big hubs can wait and wait since they're not affected by a prolonged negotiations like those that have been on the street, commuting or in a Preferential Hire situation. According to you, we all just need to be patient.

Boy my patient comment really seems to light up your Christmas Tree?

Well let's see here. It seems that you insist on conveniently omitting, forgetting or ignoring the fact that the Association had to wait 9 months while our IAM Brothers and Sisters secured a very well deserved standalone contract. I'm glad that you have no outrage against that as you do the TWU's issues.

Of course BTW the APFA and APA already secured their JCBA's. They were 9 months ahead of us in the process I need to point out yet again. Let's put this thought in our minds. The APFA members rejected their TA on November 10, 2014 so if we add 9 months to that date being as how we got started after them and our submission to the NMB is a lot more complicated then there's was it put's us at a date of August 10, 2015.

Personally I "think" we'll have a JCBA before August. But that's just my opinion if you're ok with that?   

 

[NYer]

 

 
You haven't heard, huh?

No I haven't? I'm not in a leadership position to know these thing if they are not published. It seems you may be though if you have the answers? --Been telling you for months.
 
 
That means we wasted 4 months in "tough guy" antics and those issues are going to be addressed by arbitration, if they even file. What is happening now is EXACTLY what could of happened 4 months ago. What is happening now is EXACTLY what was suggested happened.

Wasted? Really, how so? It seems to me that we are still waiting on the NMB to make it's decision on the Association and from there we still have to vote on it which will take at least another month possibly? --You keep talking about the NMB. I guess you believe that if the decision comes today we are ready to run towards negotiations? Hardly. This is a DIFFICULT process that will take time to learn and debate each others CBA, language and the airlines tendencies. The IAM has experience with that management team in negotiations, we don't. If the parties do not get together and understand each others point of view, then we will be in limbo for even more time.
 
If you are correct, then we will not hear the TWU or their leaders talk about being "rushed" into a decision or negotiations. We'll see how that works out. =/

 
It took some 4 months to figure it out and it takes others even more time to figure it out. =/

An effort was made to correct some issues while there was time to do so. You personally have stated that you consider those items to only be pesky nuisances. Well maybe not everyone thinks the same way as you do. That's a shame. --Four months later, those issues haven't been addressed and remain the same as they did dating back to MAY 2013. In the meantime, no negotiations prep has taken place. The shut that door and achieved nothing in doing so.
 
And BTW, I guess those in big hubs can wait and wait since they're not affected by a prolonged negotiations like those that have been on the street, commuting or in a Preferential Hire situation. According to you, we all just need to be patient.

Boy my patient comment really seems to light up your Christmas Tree?

Well let's see here. It seems that you insist on conveniently omitting, forgetting or ignoring the fact that the Association had to wait 9 months while our IAM Brothers and Sisters secured a very well deserved standalone contract. I'm glad that you have no outrage against that as you do the TWU's issues. --We waited for them to negotiate a standalone agreement which I guess is fair since they waited until WE negotiated the terms of the Merger and our MOU's that gave us raises from the company our Brothers & Sisters at the IAM work for. They waited on the sidelines and were ignored by their own management team. Talk about conveniently omitting, but that is what happens when you use other people's talking points.

Of course BTW the APFA and APA already secured their JCBA's. They were 9 months ahead of us in the process I need to point out yet again. Let's put this thought in our minds. The APFA members rejected their TA on November 10, 2014 so if we add 9 months to that date being as how we got started after them and our submission to the NMB is a lot more complicated then there's was it put's us at a date of August 10, 2015.

Personally I "think" we'll have a JCBA before August. But that's just my opinion if you're ok with that?  --You've been consistently wrong to this point. At this pace, no JCBA until 2016. If you believe some published timelines, they won't even meet until March.

 

 

[WeAAsles]

 

 


 
You haven't heard, huh?

No I haven't? I'm not in a leadership position to know these thing if they are not published. It seems you may be though if you have the answers? --Been telling you for months.
 
 
That means we wasted 4 months in "tough guy" antics and those issues are going to be addressed by arbitration, if they even file. What is happening now is EXACTLY what could of happened 4 months ago. What is happening now is EXACTLY what was suggested happened.

Wasted? Really, how so? It seems to me that we are still waiting on the NMB to make it's decision on the Association and from there we still have to vote on it which will take at least another month possibly? --You keep talking about the NMB. I guess you believe that if the decision comes today we are ready to run towards negotiations? Hardly. This is a DIFFICULT process that will take time to learn and debate each others CBA, language and the airlines tendencies. The IAM has experience with that management team in negotiations, we don't. If the parties do not get together and understand each others point of view, then we will be in limbo for even more time.
 
If you are correct, then we will not hear the TWU or their leaders talk about being "rushed" into a decision or negotiations. We'll see how that works out. =/

 
It took some 4 months to figure it out and it takes others even more time to figure it out. =/

An effort was made to correct some issues while there was time to do so. You personally have stated that you consider those items to only be pesky nuisances. Well maybe not everyone thinks the same way as you do. That's a shame. --Four months later, those issues haven't been addressed and remain the same as they did dating back to MAY 2013. In the meantime, no negotiations prep has taken place. The shut that door and achieved nothing in doing so.
 
And BTW, I guess those in big hubs can wait and wait since they're not affected by a prolonged negotiations like those that have been on the street, commuting or in a Preferential Hire situation. According to you, we all just need to be patient.

Boy my patient comment really seems to light up your Christmas Tree?

Well let's see here. It seems that you insist on conveniently omitting, forgetting or ignoring the fact that the Association had to wait 9 months while our IAM Brothers and Sisters secured a very well deserved standalone contract. I'm glad that you have no outrage against that as you do the TWU's issues. --We waited for them to negotiate a standalone agreement which I guess is fair since they waited until WE negotiated the terms of the Merger and our MOU's that gave us raises from the company our Brothers & Sisters at the IAM work for. They waited on the sidelines and were ignored by their own management team. Talk about conveniently omitting, but that is what happens when you use other people's talking points.

Of course BTW the APFA and APA already secured their JCBA's. They were 9 months ahead of us in the process I need to point out yet again. Let's put this thought in our minds. The APFA members rejected their TA on November 10, 2014 so if we add 9 months to that date being as how we got started after them and our submission to the NMB is a lot more complicated then there's was it put's us at a date of August 10, 2015.

Personally I "think" we'll have a JCBA before August. But that's just my opinion if you're ok with that?  --You've been consistently wrong to this point. At this pace, no JCBA until 2016. If you believe some published timelines, they won't even meet until March.

 

 



You had a few good points in your response that I can agree with. I'll expand a little more on my "thoughts" and maybe add in a few questions later on tonight when I get home from work.