2015 AMT Discussion

[chilokie1]

I said it before shut it down and welcome to the line...Forget about weekends off and spending your holidays at home.. welcome aboard and for those that do not have enough seniority to hold a line station happy job hunting. Life is cruel somtimes.

 
Is your life so miserable that you wish suffrage on the people who you blame for your misery ?
If Tulsa does shut down how will that improve your life? Who will you blame for your miserable life then?
It is true that most (not all) guys in Tulsa have weekends off, and that the base shuts down for holidays
but If bad shifts and days off are so horrible why do you stay? What the hell did you expect when you 
took the job? I respect the job you guys on the line do and I agree you do get screwed with the holiday pay in our 
present contract, and you should get C.O.L.A. pay in high cost cities. But you lose my respect when *****
about your work hours, would your life be better if the union and company  in solidarity chose to make all
our schedules 24/7 365 days a year because that would be fair? Should the guys who work in climate controlled 
shops in Tulsa be forced to do time in the hangars in August, because that would be fair? Man up dude.

 

[ATD]

Hey chilokie on this. i like my job i like working holidays i like working period. it is time for people to grow up and grow a pair, life is not fair.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Hey chilokie on this. i like my job i like working holidays i like working period. it is time for people to grow up and grow a pair, life is not fair.

Speaking of growing up.........

 

[Shafted]

hate to say it guys but i were in Tulsa i'd start packing my bags. right before they shut taesl down they had a bright future meeting....

true dat! They said they had enough lined up to last until 2020. Not that thats long term but its is what TAESL peps were told. 

 

[PlayTheOdds]

Oh my goodness. You guys have been talking about getting rid of the TWU for at least ten years now. Probably longer but I know for sure for ten years. What have you been doing? Just coming here complaining and belly aching for the past ten years? Every one of you talk as if you have the answers yet none of you have done anything. Nothing...nothing in ten years. Unreal. Absolutely unreal. The problem is not with your job or your pay its with your democratic ideology that you are miserable with. You sound like them idiots in Washington that demands higher pay then cry about when you get it because now you have to pay taxes and you lost your free housing.

Knock knock,
Who's there?
Reality.
Reality who?
Reality is here for you.

Ten years people, ten years.

 

[700UW]

Go away NW scab

 

[Roadking5560]

I suppose a good analogy would be the common cold.  You can't really do anything about it/him/her, but with time will go away.

 

[WeAAsles]

I thought you guys might be interested in looking this over? This is the latest TA to come out in the industry. Yes I know it's Hawaiian Airlines and the pay won't compare to DL, UAL or SWA, but you guys might find some other items interesting?

I personally like the tiered 401k match and the bridge to retirement medical pre 65.

http://www.iamdl142.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Final-Contract-For-Posting-12-11-2015.pdf

 

[Overspeed]

Torn on the tiered model. It seems like the match is zero when it would mean the most difference. I know younger people think they always have time to save but a dollar invested and matched when you are in your twenties is worth a boat load more thirty years later. The APFA did in their BK CBA and accelerator for those that had less time to save (read people over 50) and they got a higher defined contribution. I would like something that still gives the new hires a defined contribution up front and an accelerator for those who have less time to save before retirement (with a years in service qualifier).
 
My best case scenario would be a restart of the TWU defined benefit plan for those that were in it older than age 50. Those people don't have time to save in a 401(k) and they truly are getting the most screwed. The rest of should get the option of 401(k) with a higher defined contribution with over 50 accelerator, improved match for all ages and years in service, and/or the IAMNPF.

 

[700UW]

Your pension will never be unfrozen, being frozen was part of the POR.

 

[bigjets]

I thought you guys might be interested in looking this over? This is the latest TA to come out in the industry. Yes I know it's Hawaiian Airlines and the pay won't compare to DL, UAL or SWA, but you guys might find some other items interesting?
I personally like the tiered 401k match and the bridge to retirement medical pre 65.
http://www.iamdl142.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Final-Contract-For-Posting-12-11-2015.pdf

Not expecting much from the twu side of the association, but looking forward to what the IAM can do for us at AA. If they can do this with Hawaiian, think what they can do for us at AA, the biggest airline in the world with a CEO who says he wants to compensate employees.

Too bad the IAM didn't want to take a vote for represtation, they probably would have won.

 

[Overspeed]

700UW,
You are wrong. The fund can be unfrozen and that is one of the reasons why the TWU pushed for a freeze versus a termination beyond the PBGC taking it over. You don't know everything. Is it likely to be unfrozen? Not a high probablity but I would rather the Association push for that in some shape or form. The door is not nailed shut on our TWU defined benefit plan
 
We don't want the IAMNPF period. It's way too risky and it a pyramid scheme that needs more participants to keep paying out now and needs more people getting in to pay future benefits. It's a multi-employer plan that could be hurt dramatically by other plan participants leaving. Too many downsides and risks.
 
We would rather take our chances with a 401(k) and a better match and defined contribution than the IAMNPF hands down. Just because US Airways terminated your plan no reason you should force us in to the IAMNPF when there are other options that TWU members prefer.

 

[700UW]

The frozen pension is part of the POR, it can't be unfrozen as it would violate it.

You are the one who was wrong, go look it up.

No one is forcing the IAMNPF on you, and PMAA out numbers PMUS, so you all have the votes, like I said it's not forced on you and negotiations haven't even begun. Guess you didn't read the proposal to the company from the Association.

 

[Overspeed]

The frozen pension is part of the POR, it can't be unfrozen as it would violate it.
You are the one who was wrong, go look it up.
No one is forcing the IAMNPF on you, and PMAA out numbers PMUS, so you all have the votes, like I said it's not forced on you and negotiations haven't even begun. Guess you didn't read the proposal to the company from the Association.

Wrong? From the pension rights website. If it was terminated outright it couldn't be unfrozen. Now did I say it would be unfrozen? No only that I had wanted it to be. Your IAM negotiating tactics seem to be "If I can't have it no else can either." Kind of like when you call mechanics getting laid off of as trimming the fat. Love the IAM style of leadership.

How is a freeze different from a termination?

When a company freezes its pension, employees may stop earning benefits, but the pension plan continues in operation. It continues to be insured by the federal pension insurance corporation, and there is the possibility that the plan could be unfrozen. When a plan terminates, however, it stops completely and ceases all operations. - See more at: http://www.pensionrights.org/publications/fact-sheet/pension-freezes#sthash.52iVvm2O.dpuf

 

[WeAAsles]

POR "Plan of Reorganization" means just that. It's a plan. And plans are subject to changes or modifications. Part of that original plan was the insistence to end retiree medical benefits. As we can now all see it's probably very unlikely that the company is going to be able to accomplish that plan? So the POR faces modification.

Will the secured creditors come back and say that since the new AA is in violation of the POR that now the merger is off? Of course not. With or without the retiree medical being scrapped the value in the enterprise they are seeing is tremendous.

And since when do we as Unions worry about what is written in any documents signed by executives and banks anyway?

Of course it could be unfrozen. Should it be is the question? If it was what safeguards do we have that they won't continue to keep it underfunded? Do we have any legal remedy to make sure AA brings the funding up to 100%? By it being unfrozen could we be placing it again at risk for it to one day be able to be thrown on the PBGC?

I'm not saying it will or won't or can or can't be unfrozen. I just am not sure I want it unfrozen if we don't have the means to monitor it and hold the company's feet to the fire to make sure they put the money in that belongs there.

Otherwise going back to what O/S said. I think there should be an improved retirement formula for those who are over or when they turn 50 so we can comfortably get the hell out of here. Even the junior member walking in the door today is not immune to aging.

"No man escapes time"