2015 AMT Discussion

[AMFAinMIAMI]

First of all, dont call me a liar unless you can prove differently, which you can't. Secondly don't ever call me a liar period. And lastly, I can tell you that Mr amfa himself Dave Stewart and a buddy of his in the gearbox shop did EXACTLY what I said. And you are exactly the amfa supporter type I spoke about earlier. It's jerks like you that turn people off about it.

 
Badwlmson
 
Not all of the AMFA organizers that came up from stations around the system were that way were they? How about all the guys who served meals month after month on their own time and dimes? DFW, JFK, ORD, SAN, guys came to T-town. 
 
Others including myself went to LAX, SFO, DFW, etc..
 
Just Maybe after all the info that was given most,  the T-town guys still guys asked the same questions over and over and came up with the same frustrating reasons why we should stay with the TWU. Was it wrong of them to act that way maybe I was not there to listen to what was said but put yourself in these guys shoes flying around the system on their own time and dimes feeding guys, doing the research that everyone should of been doing and then having it copied and printed. 
 
The AMFA drives were funded for the most part by guys who wanted to make a change and bring something different to AA. Isn't it been one screwing after another since the day you hired in? LQQK back at all that we traded away for what? It's gone now anyway.
 
The IBT guys told you what you wanted to hear, they came to peoples homes, they have a dept. of those guys paid to just that. 
 
Every one of the AMFA GUY's did it on his/her own time/dime. After 18 yrs of trying I have washed my hands of it. Not Because of AMFA organizers failing but because THE Mechanics at AA, LIKE THE TWU WAY, that is my conclusion, I can't think of any other since we lost so much and still guys who to this day follow blindly the TWU officers. 
 
This association is going to do the same thing to all that remain once a JCBA is signed.
The funny part is that even then guys will be $itchin about the union and won't do a thing to effect change.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

At the IAM, Transportation is the largest department.

 
And still the IAM
 
Failed at CAL, UAL, TWA, AS, NWA, USAir, and more......

 

[Buck]

At the IAM, Transportation is the largest department.

Exactly, but I noticed that you failed to ( perhaps on purpose ) to indicate that Transportation at the TWU is broken up into their respective catagories, Air. Transit and Rail.

 

[Buck]

and thats good as this is the industry to be in. The wn contract was great when it was signed, and im currently under the best iam contract ive been under, although the industry passed it up.

That said, my main gripe is that we should be in negotiations prior to January. How long it will take thereafter will be up yo a fair agreement. But the LUS side dont need to rush as we have scope.

regards,

Congratulations, on your sucess. What group do you for at Southwest?

 

[700UW]

He is a PMUS Fleet Service.

 

[conehead777]

I HAVE signed 6 cards and a teamsters card. Was signing a teamsters card wrong? Possibly, but I thought they had a better chance of making than amfa, which had failed several times. Since I obviously lack the "seniority" on this board to be allowed to voice my opinion without attacks I will respectfully bow out of commenting and just quietly observe. But if I may be allowed to voice one more opinion: get used to the twu because that's all we'll ever have because amfa supporters are all loud and obnoxious and only want to talk to the rest of us like we're idiots. Like I said in previous posts, without unity NO representation will change anything and telling everyone who disagrees or is uninformed how stupid we are will never promote unity. Sorry I've wasted everyone's time and my own trying to have constructive conversation.

the lady that came my house from ibt i asked her to leave that i supported and signed  amfa card. the only union that will work for amts is amfa are if all the airlines mechanics get together as one union kinda like alpa are if we in all the airlines mechanics all get amfa. you say that the amfa organizers were rude to osm . if thats true the osm should want to forgive forget sign a card as what the twu has made osm lower pay . you i bet amfa would get rid of osm and the osm there now a chance to get there license if they do not have one. its not good for our industry to have osm and the twu started that to keep dues coming in not for the good of our industry.every mechanic in the airlines should have a license and be compensated for it.you are far from constructive conversation. in one post you told people if you haven't  been to a union meeting to stfu and not post here. i have 30 years of the twu and i know how they work they do not give clear concise updates .plus if the twu/iam had nothing to hide let observers sit in negations and be able to report back to members . theres one union you can do that amfa. plus amfa the members can vote the leaders out . and the leaders do not make 280000 a year there secretary gets payed 150000 at the association .thats the reason iam twu do whats best interest of company to get dues and pay there salaries the association should let the members know whats going on the truth . allow members to sit in negotiations .one day hopefully soon amfa will be our union and the twu koolaid drinkers and fence sitters will be happy when we get our pay and benefits and scope that will be industry leading . if your a fence sitter / koolaid drinker look at the south west airline mechanic on here . the only complaints i here is that swa is dragging there feet. but thats happening to all the unions out there sw mechanics correct me if I'm wrong. but i know some of the people leaving aa to goto sw are happy.

 

[Buck]

He is a PMUS Fleet Service.

You must be a union leader? I ask him a question and you answer for him, because what he cannot do it on his own?

 

[Buck]

The OSM's like the Progressive AMT's of the B,C and D scales, were classifications the TWU came up with. Conehead is correct, the TWU is only about dues generation.
 
Why does the TWU need to have a closed shop where a member is forced to pay dues? If the union is doing it's job, the members will pay for the service.

 

[conehead777]

Yes, loud and obnoxious. Here in Tulsa, the only thing amfa supporters want to do is #### about how the twu is screwing me. I don't need anyone to point that out to me, I'm not blind. Tell me what you're going to do differently and how you plan to accomplish it. Mud slinging doesn't impress me any more in union politics than it does in goverment politics. Pointing out the faults of your competitors doesn't prove anything to me. "He sucks so you should vote for me". And giving me a hamburger or hotdog doesn't impress me either, not does it show any greater commitment to a cause or change. Amfa will never be successful out here as long as they continue to use the same tactics for recruitment. Hell, I can remember when they wouldn't have anything to do with the osm's. Or srp's as they were then. That is until the realized they needed their signatures for the card drive to have a chance. I'm sure there are still plenty of those people left that remember that and would never sign a card. So, instead of telling me how bad twu is, tell me how amfa will be better. And as far as the obnoxious teamsters going door to door? They listened to what I had to say. They presented their case on what they could do to improve things then thanked me for my time. Turns out it was all a big attempt to stop amfa, but at least they listened. Like I said in a previous post, we're NEVER gonna have anything different because we'll NEVER stick together. The twu has created that culture out here over the years pitting us against each other and overbearing people like yourself do nothing to help it. The vocal minority such as yourself on an airline forum that only a few people get on and even fewer of us comment will never impact change. Until EVERYONE can come together for a common cause we'll never accomplish what we all want. Everyone wants basically the same thing, yet we still can't agree. The one group that should be sticking together, the mechanics, can't even do that because the twu has allowed a wedge to be driven between line and O/H.if it were me, I'd start by figuring out how to get those 2 groups together. Just my two cents

the amfa difference no1 we get to write our constitution and vote on it.no2 members vote in who to serve. no3 if the membership wants to remove leaders .the members can vote out the leaders. no4 amfa his held accountable to the member ship so they listen to the majority of member ship and do it.no5 amfa gives great updates plus they allow the membership to observe negotiation .no5 theres no fleet service on the negotiating committee amfa uses lawyers in negotiations since the company has lawyers amfa dose to. un like twu where they have good old boys doing our negotiations . thats just a few you can do the rest of research on google bling are what ever search you use its all out there. ask south west amts also so. remember that those teamsters who visited were sales people they will tell you any thing to make the sell

 

[700UW]

You must be a union leader? I ask him a question and you answer for him, because what he cannot do it on his own?

He doesnt work for WN.  As you stated he did.

 

[Buck]

He doesnt work for WN.  As you stated he did.

Actually he said, The wn contract was great when it was signed, and im currently under the best iam contract ive been under, although the industry passed it up.
 
Congratulations, on your sucess. What group do you for at Southwest?
 
You read what you wanted me to say, I never said Hey Tim how long have you worked for Southwest. I asked HIM, a general question because his comment on IAM at Southwest.
 
 

 

 

[bigjets]

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/11/airplane-maintenance-disturbing-truth
 
 
I find it funny that the AMT's in the southern states who will be most effected by outsourcing,  vote in republicans who are anti union and anti government. 
 
Unfortunately nothing will change because there are $59 dollar tickets. You couldn't possibly expect to have all the pax pay $1000 dollars to fly across the country in a few hours. 

 

[bigjets]

Yes, loud and obnoxious. Here in Tulsa, the only thing amfa supporters want to do is #### about how the twu is screwing me. I don't need anyone to point that out to me, I'm not blind. Tell me what you're going to do differently and how you plan to accomplish it. Mud slinging doesn't impress me any more in union politics than it does in goverment politics. Pointing out the faults of your competitors doesn't prove anything to me. "He sucks so you should vote for me". And giving me a hamburger or hotdog doesn't impress me either, not does it show any greater commitment to a cause or change. Amfa will never be successful out here as long as they continue to use the same tactics for recruitment. Hell, I can remember when they wouldn't have anything to do with the osm's. Or srp's as they were then. That is until the realized they needed their signatures for the card drive to have a chance. I'm sure there are still plenty of those people left that remember that and would never sign a card. So, instead of telling me how bad twu is, tell me how amfa will be better. And as far as the obnoxious teamsters going door to door? They listened to what I had to say. They presented their case on what they could do to improve things then thanked me for my time. Turns out it was all a big attempt to stop amfa, but at least they listened. Like I said in a previous post, we're NEVER gonna have anything different because we'll NEVER stick together. The twu has created that culture out here over the years pitting us against each other and overbearing people like yourself do nothing to help it. The vocal minority such as yourself on an airline forum that only a few people get on and even fewer of us comment will never impact change. Until EVERYONE can come together for a common cause we'll never accomplish what we all want. Everyone wants basically the same thing, yet we still can't agree. The one group that should be sticking together, the mechanics, can't even do that because the twu has allowed a wedge to be driven between line and O/H.if it were me, I'd start by figuring out how to get those 2 groups together. Just my two cents

 
 
It's funny how you say the TWU drove a wedge between line and OH, but in reality the twu pandered to the tulsa mechs because they were the biggest group and could be easily satisfied, don't forget the roll call vote or if you don't like it move to tulsa.  So the tulsa mechs VOTED IN the contracts we all had to work under. Don't worry we will all have the same common goal when we are all line mechs.
 
No worries I've only seen one OH mech let go for not being able to handle the stress of line maint. If you consistently can't get anything done in a timely manner, there is a manager at ORD who holds mechs accountable, but of course the culture is changing at AA and there are a lot of new supervisors trying to make a name for themselves. 
 
I do agree with you that there are some annoying overly aggressive AMFA organizers, they're just passionate and are probably tired of fighting guys that argue your position. To ALL AMFA organizers thank you!!!!

 

[bigjets]

I do think that we should give AA and the association a chance to come through on a good contract. This is America West management, and a different union negotiating team to go along with a different airline industry, no longer are we dealing with, we have to save OH or our pension. AA is no longer losing money, but making $1 billion plus a quarter!!!!!
 
I'm very optimistic about our future. After all how bad would it look for the association (TWO UNIONS) if it can't beat an IBT contract with 7 weeks VC, pay, holidays, 12 sick days, etc etc .......at an airline that is smaller and doesn't make as much money as AA does. 

 

[Badwlmson]

Ill stick with my original comment LIAR. keyboard warrior.

I'm gonna go ahead and ignore you from now on because I gave you a specific example and you're continuing with accusations of which you have NO knowledge of. And calling me names with the anonymity of this message board and I'M the keyboard warrior? You're priceless. I'll continue to stand by my story. I'll also continue to take the high road and not stoop to name calling

Badwlmson
 
Not all of the AMFA organizers that came up from stations around the system were that way were they? How about all the guys who served meals month after month on their own time and dimes? DFW, JFK, ORD, SAN, guys came to T-town. 
 
Others including myself went to LAX, SFO, DFW, etc..
 
Just Maybe after all the info that was given most,  the T-town guys still guys asked the same questions over and over and came up with the same frustrating reasons why we should stay with the TWU. Was it wrong of them to act that way maybe I was not there to listen to what was said but put yourself in these guys shoes flying around the system on their own time and dimes feeding guys, doing the research that everyone should of been doing and then having it copied and printed. 
 
The AMFA drives were funded for the most part by guys who wanted to make a change and bring something different to AA. Isn't it been one screwing after another since the day you hired in? LQQK back at all that we traded away for what? It's gone now anyway.
 
The IBT guys told you what you wanted to hear, they came to peoples homes, they have a dept. of those guys paid to just that. 
 
Every one of the AMFA GUY's did it on his/her own time/dime. After 18 yrs of trying I have washed my hands of it. Not Because of AMFA organizers failing but because THE Mechanics at AA, LIKE THE TWU WAY, that is my conclusion, I can't think of any other since we lost so much and still guys who to this day follow blindly the TWU officers. 
 
This association is going to do the same thing to all that remain once a JCBA is signed.
The funny part is that even then guys will be $itchin about the union and won't do a thing to effect change.

You are absolutely correct. Not all are like I described. Unfortunately those that I described are generally the ones you see and hear because they are the loudest. If all amfa advocates were like you I bet we would already have amfa here.

Badwlmson,
 
Please explain to me how the mechanics can be united under the tWU unmbrella where Fleet Service holds the majority or at the TWU International where the Air Transport Division is a pimple on the ass of the Bus division and Train division? Explain to me how you would ever conceive that any entity where they are out numbered even in a democracy can achieve anything of value. This is the main reason to leave the TWU. The mechanics here and even the Fence Sitters fell for a mechanics contract, which we lost at the bankruptcy and through the democratic developement of the Association. The TWU is a Socialists regime where even in theory is the same. A utopian union where a mechanic and a fleet service clerk are compensated the same and where even here in TUL the facility mechanic is compensated more than an aircraft mechanic at the base level. The attempt of the mechanics to separate internally from the TWU structure has led to non aircraft mechanics being compensated to overcome the A&P Licensing? Even a machinist who has the contracual ability to displace junior aircraft mechanics and a relatively new skill premium because everyone in any form of maintenance is an AMT. The Stock Clerk having full sick pay on the first day and being for many years being in the highest pay levels in their profession, which I have been informed , in no longer the case. Why don't you start your own union and if it is as democratic as the Pilots and Flight Attendants and even AMFA then I will sign with you. 
 
Above all else please explain how other than solidarity under a union whose entire goal is to fund the Democrats in Washington through the AFL-CIO, to create a representitive is there fro the mechanic?

I'm not saying that in the long run we can be united under the twu. I'm simply saying that if there was ever a time to start mending relationships it would now. I also understand the animosity towards o/h so I realize it's probably unrealistic. I don't think anyone can be united or thrive long term under the twu. In case there's been any misunderstanding, I agree that the twu has to go.