2014 maintenance talks

[Vortilon]

Those numbers are from AA's 10k

 
And, your point is what?  The  "maintenance personnel" numbers on these reports and surveys are too vague.  That's all there is to it.  Obviously, the larger number will serve management or the "one size fits all" union narrative as an excuse to reduce the pay and benefits of the line AMTs.

 

[swamt]

Those numbers are right from the BTS and WN's and US' 10k, refute the numbers.
 
So WN's #s include and relateds also, so bottom line is you will lose 10,000 mechanics.

700, I will refute your numbers.
SWA is more like 685-689 aircraft, no big deal, as it did hit 700 during the AT purchase.
SWA has more than 4 lines of maint.  I think you were refering to our 4 lines of Heavy Maint. in Dal.  We also have numerous "C" check lines thru-out the system, line Ron, Hgr RON, Several Mod Lines operating at several stations as well.
Please don't just state that we, SWA only has 4 lines of maint with 700 A/C as that would be very inaccurate.  You are correct about the Mech to A/C ratio, about 3.26-3.4.  
Everyone knows that SWA has always outsourced alot of maint.  And that % has always been around 70-75% from the very get go when we were not represented, then represented by the IAM, then represented by the teamsters who just continued to let the company outsource like crazy, then it was the teamsters that agreed to allow SWA to go out of the country to Canada first and then Elsolvador. 

 

[700UW]

The PMAA from folks don't understand there would be massive layoffs at the new AA if they were under the sam CBA as WN. Those are facts, it seems you understand the current concept. I am not knocking WN at all and you and your fellow mechanics do a few fine job, the AA mechanics can't seem to grasp what would happen if they had your CBA, since at AA they have always done more In-house.

Then maybe you can tell us how the fourth line was accomplished, I thought that was agreed to by AMFA to let WN outsourve to foreign MROs?

 

[swamt]

The PMAA from folks don't understand there would be massive layoffs at the new AA if they were under the sam CBA as WN. Those are facts, it seems you understand the current concept. I am not knocking WN at all and you and your fellow mechanics do a few fine job, the AA mechanics can't seem to grasp what would happen if they had your CBA, since at AA they have always done more In-house.

Then maybe you can tell us how the fourth line was accomplished, I thought that was agreed to by AMFA to let WN outsourve to foreign MROs?

No prob.  But I still do not think it would take a furlough of more than 75-80% for them to get that pay. If that was the case they should be within 1 or 2 dollars now with more than 65% furloughed or  gone from the hay days of AA with close to 20,000 mechanics.
My bad, I looked back at my previous post, I wrote it out wrong.  teamsters were the first to agree to outsource out of the country with an agreement to allow SWA to go to Canada.  With that in mind and AMFA took over, AMFA could only enforce what the teamsters had agreed to. SWA was going to Elsolvador no matter what due to the teamsters language that AMFA was inherited by the teamsters.  Knowing that SWA was going to do so anyway, AMFA called filed  grievences, and called for nego's with the company on this issue.  AMFA would have loss the grievence due to the toothless teamsters language, therefore AMFA was successful in getting the company to the table to nego something in exchange if AMFA was to allow this current outsourcing to Elsolvador (even though the co had full power by the teamsters to do).  AMFA was successful with adding a fourth line of heavy maint to Dal, bringing in more work for our back shops, adding head count garrentees to several shop groups as well as protecting the 4 lines of heavy maint and headcount.  AMFA was also successful in making an agreement that the Union has to "agree" to or sign-off on any future outsourcing over seas by a membership vote, and AMFA was successful in restricting the Elsolvador outsourcing to 4 lines max as they wanted to be able to do 6-8 eventually, AND these 4 lines were actually removed from a USA vendor and transfered to elsolvador, this was never increased or added outsourcing, as others out here have claimed against AMFA, it was simply transfered maint from one vendor to another. 
Sorry for that confussion, I wrote it wrong.  I meant to mainly point out that it was the language of the teamsters when AMFA took over that allowed SWA to outsource to both Canada first and Elsovador next.  Thx for poiting that out, I wrote as if the teamsters were still representing us at the time of the Elsovador maint started which was not true...

 

[NYer]

700, I will refute your numbers.
SWA is more like 685-689 aircraft, no big deal, as it did hit 700 during the AT purchase.
SWA has more than 4 lines of maint.  I think you were refering to our 4 lines of Heavy Maint. in Dal.  We also have numerous "C" check lines thru-out the system, line Ron, Hgr RON, Several Mod Lines operating at several stations as well.
Please don't just state that we, SWA only has 4 lines of maint with 700 A/C as that would be very inaccurate.  You are correct about the Mech to A/C ratio, about 3.26-3.4.  
Everyone knows that SWA has always outsourced alot of maint.  And that % has always been around 70-75% from the very get go when we were not represented, then represented by the IAM, then represented by the teamsters who just continued to let the company outsource like crazy, then it was the teamsters that agreed to allow SWA to go out of the country to Canada first and then Elsolvador. 

 
When is AMFA going to fix that?

 

[MetalMover]

Average in house Maintenance employees in 2013

AA 18.2
SWA 3.4

http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2013%2012%20Month%20Documents/Employees%20and%20Productivity/MX/Average%20In%20House%20Maintenance%20Employees%20per%20Aircraft.htm


http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/default.html
 

Once again why do you care if we outsource or not? Wouldn't affect fleet service. would it now?
Let them outsource 75- 80% and sive hundreds of millions of dollars a year. Maybe then fleet service can truly be at the top of industry leading wages!

 

[WeAAsles]

Once again why do you care if we outsource or not? Wouldn't affect fleet service. would it now?
Let them outsource 75- 80% and sive hundreds of millions of dollars a year. Maybe then fleet service can truly be at the top of industry leading wages!

That sounds GREAT!!!! I guess you're saying that AMFA is ready to file then? GO AMFA!!!

 

[WeAAsles]

AMFA is betting that mechanic and related employees do not know its almost 50 year history of failure. AMFA's philosophy is that mechanics should isolate themselves from other workers and that their collective strength is based on the skill and knowledge. Sounds appealing, but the reality is this isolation has led to nothing but disaster for the mechanic and related class and craft in the airline industry.
Please take the time to read the information below, and the other pages, and learn about the many failures of the AMFA.

 
- See more at: http://www.usaamerger.com/amfa-information/#sthash.fb1xAxSA.dpuf

 

[WeAAsles]

We don't want no stinking cleaner's overhaul or parts washers in our club. Thank you very much.
 
The 1,500 Northwest cleaners and custodians represented by AMFA are less enthusiastic about the contract. Cleaners are upset that the percentage of their raise is far below that of mechanics. O.V. Delle-Femine, national director of AMFA, claims that the disparity is natural because skilled mechanics are in short supply but there are plenty of people looking for cleaners' jobs.

 
Actually, the disparity reflects AMFA's craft-union bias. In its successful raid on Northwest mechanics that ousted the International Association of Machinists, AMFA tried to exclude cleaners from the bargaining unit.

http://socialistworker.org/2001/367/367_15_PicketLine.shtml

 

[WeAAsles]

When Northwest sought steep pay cuts in 2005 in an effort to avoid bankruptcy, AMFA led about 4,400 workers out on strike. It was a huge gamble that failed spectacularly. Northwest suffered some operational hiccups but kept flying. Northwest replaced them all by the end of the year with a mix of new hires and union members who crossed the picket line.

http://www.forums.amtcentral.com/showthread.php?t=976

I like some of the comments personally.

 

[WeAAsles]

Layoffs at other carriers have swelled the labor pool with experienced mechanics, said Charles Craver, a labor law expert George Washington University.
 
"The (mechanics) in particular have just had delusions of grandeur," he said. "They think they're irreplaceable, and they're not."

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/travel/news/2005-11-02-northwest-strike_x.htm

 

[WeAAsles]

Job Outlook

 
Employment of aircraft and avionics equipment mechanics and technicians is projected to show little or no change from 2012 to 2022.
 
Air traffic is expected to gradually increase over the coming decade. However, new aircraft are generally expected to require less maintenance than older aircraft. Airlines may continue to outsource maintenance work to specialized maintenance and repair shops both domestically and abroad. Increased specialization will allow maintenance facilities to use their resources more efficiently and therefore limit growth in the number of aircraft and avionics equipment mechanics and technicians.

 
Job Prospects

 
Competition for aircraft and avionics equipment mechanic and technician jobs varies according to the type of job sought. In general, job opportunities will be best for mechanics who hold an A&P certificate and have knowledge about the most cutting edge technologies and composite materials. Familiarity with computers and digital systems will help provide the best opportunities.
Bachelor’s degree holders typically have an advantage when trying to enter the occupation and may find it easier to advance.

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/Installation-Maintenance-and-Repair/Aircraft-and-avionics-equipment-mechanics-and-technicians.htm#tab-6

 

[MetalMover]

 

AMFA is betting that mechanic and related employees do not know its almost 50 year history of failure. AMFA's philosophy is that mechanics should isolate themselves from other workers and that their collective strength is based on the skill and knowledge. Sounds appealing, but the reality is this isolation has led to nothing but disaster for the mechanic and related class and craft in the airline industry.
Please take the time to read the information below, and the other pages, and learn about the many failures of the AMFA.

 
- See more at: http://www.usaamerger.com/amfa-information/#sthash.fb1xAxSA.dpuf
 

Just remember, fleet can be easily replaced. Easier than any other work group.
The real reason you hate AMFA is the same reason the TWU as a whole hates AMFA.....If you lose the mechanics, no more coat tails to ride on.

 

[TWU informer]

 

AMFA is betting that mechanic and related employees do not know its almost 50 year history of failure. AMFA's philosophy is that mechanics should isolate themselves from other workers and that their collective strength is based on the skill and knowledge. Sounds appealing, but the reality is this isolation has led to nothing but disaster for the mechanic and related class and craft in the airline industry.
Please take the time to read the information below, and the other pages, and learn about the many failures of the AMFA.

 
- See more at: http://www.usaamerger.com/amfa-information/#sthash.fb1xAxSA.dpuf
 

 
This is total brainwashed ignorance.
 
The AMFA idea of yes so-called isolation and ALL AMT's in one union has not failed, because it still has yet to be tried, because industrial unskilled labor unions have succeeded in anti-union, unethical political activity to keep the mechanics tied to the unskilled.
 
If you disagree, being the fool that you are, then give me the dates in the 50 year history that ALL AMT's were in one single union. Please tell us?
 
In contrast, the AMT's being divided up amongst several industrial unskilled unions has for more than 50 years, left them the minority within the representation and has failed the craft or class miserably. That's factual history right there, not some brainwashed fear mongering kool-aid that you like to spew.

 

[700UW]

Just remember, fleet can be easily replaced. Easier than any other work group.
The real reason you hate AMFA is the same reason the TWU as a whole hates AMFA.....If you lose the mechanics, no more coat tails to ride on.

How if Fleet has a better CBA than M&R can they be riding coat tails?