2014 maintenance talks

[bigjets]

You have been in negotiations so you should step down as you failed your membership but you will never take blame and you blame everyone else.
And by the way I have never been and never will be a supporter of management and if you knew me you would know that.

No argument that bob didn't deliver on his rhetoric, even riding into negotiations on his unicorn Ulysses, it's odd how the FAs did much better in BK then us, and now bob has all sorts of advice after the fact for the apfa TA. but to say the IAM or the alliance is going to be our salvation is complete nonsense. AMFA or NO Union is the clear choice for us, but to be locked into these two industrial unions the twu and iam will definitely not benefit mechanics industry wide. The iam contract is a slap in the face while the FAs get offered industry leading contract (arguably).

 

[Bob Owens]

No argument that bob didn't deliver on his rhetoric, even riding into negotiations on his unicorn Ulysses, it's odd how the FAs did much better in BK then us, and now bob has all sorts of advice after the fact for the apfa TA. but to say the IAM or the alliance is going to be our salvation is complete nonsense. AMFA or NO Union is the clear choice for us, but to be locked into these two industrial unions the twu and iam will definitely not benefit mechanics industry wide. The iam contract is a slap in the face while the FAs get offered industry leading contract (arguably).

Unicorn? 
 
Never said the FAs didn't do better than us, just said I wouldn't vote for a five year deal with no profit sharing after seeing all the "oh the no voters are idiots" posts I decided to jump into the discussion.  I see them making the same mistake we made in 1995 tying themselves to a long term deal after a long period of lowered expectations and felt they should have sought a shorter term because we all know that the more money the carrier makes the more dissatisfied we get about being left out, especially when we were forced to "share the pain". And you are correct I stayed out of it till after it was done. In part because I simply didn't have the time to look at it, and in part because generally the APFA does pretty well.
 
What I see is a 9% increase(good, but not as good as we got in 2001), followed by all 2% increases, that means in real terms one raise followed by four years where inflation and Medical takes more than they get in raises. So by the end of the contract they will be right about where they are now. Over the same period of time AA will likely see its best profits ever. Remember 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000? Then what, the next cycle started, but the expectations had already been raised, then 9-11. I suspect that profits will have been substantially reduced by their next negotiating cycle.
 
 
Glad to see you see the light as far as the Association. No Union, well, not too glad to see that because it does kind of validate WeAAsles concerns, however I think you are a minority on that. 
 
We need to avoid another long term contract, and another long negotiations period, they do not protect us from downturns and lock us out of making gains when times are good. The shorter the better, and if there is no movement no jerking around, get to the next step of the process. The fact is that the only real pressure a Union can put on the company is stuff like we saw in the industry prior to the deals set in 2000. (Summer of Hell) If they are getting what they want they have no reason to move, if dissatisfaction manifests into service disruptions then there is an interest in making deals. 

 

[700UW]

And what happens to profit sharing when they are no profits?

How many profit sharing checks did you receive from AA when it was on your CBA?

 

[MetalMover]

And what happens to profit sharing when they are no profits?

How many profit sharing checks did you receive from AA when it was on your CBA?

We did quite well in the 90s with PS... 
The profit sharing formula that we originally had in the BK contract was chump change compared to what it was back then.

 

[bigjets]

I prefer AMFA, but no Union would be better then the association or either iam or twu.

I have a couple of concerns:

The association negotiates a subpar contract because mechs couldn't get that high of a percentage pay raise in contract more then ramp or in order to save what OH that remains, the association had to sacrifice pay. Not picking on tul it's just the excuses we heard on the past.

Our negotiation team demands unattainable contract improvements that AA puts us on the back burner and then the mediator puts on back burner for years. 5% above delta in pay 13% contribution to 401k ( no reason to settle for less then FAs, or demand more then pilots) and all other contract improvements restored, 12 sk days, shift diff based a % of pay, 10 holidays, x2 past 12 hrs of work etc etc etc. our contract should not be less then FAs but we shouldn't expect more then pilots.

 

[Bob Owens]

That is true Bob. The ones who work for Delta will not post on a forum like this for fear of being "Kipped".

I am friends with many. Two laid off (original Delta) I know turned down recall many years ago saying that they had enough. Several ex-DFW who like Delta as much as a Vietnam Vet likes Jane Fonda.

A couple of ex-CVG who make the commute to ATL after being forced to go there with no assistance or options of going anywhere else (no bumping and no severance. I know of some CVG who just quit, like the DFW guys did). They hate their job but are now in their late 50's and have 28+ years in. Knew several who were at MCO...key word were. Same thing at Tampa.

I know a few who like what they do, but they have moved into other Tech Ops functions like planners, Maint Control, etc., but they also want to live in ATL. It seems that most outside of ATL are the ones who got shafted.

This says a lot about Delta. 
 
https://www.coworker.org/petitions/tell-delta-our-voices-will-not-be-silenced-1

 

[Bob Owens]

And what happens to profit sharing when they are no profits?

How many profit sharing checks did you receive from AA when it was on your CBA?

Company suck doing Parkers bidding, whats the matter Segal doesn't let you shine his shoes anymore? Lock us in at Bankruptcy rates of pay and no Profit Sharing but then he claims he is a Union Man. Maybe if the IAM had negotiated something close to WN or UPS we wouldn't want profit sharing, but then again doesnt WN get profit sharing as well? But what does the IAM get with a company earning Billions, AA bankruptcy wages. 

 

[N617P]

Are you kidding me?  You settle for this alliance for a SWA contract?  No freakin way!  If you are willing to settle for the alliance you should be saying that you would settle for "best in the industry" that includes UPS.  A greater contract than UPS is what it would take to get a vote to pass for this BS alliance.  We all know that this alliance can in any way shape or form get better than UPS contracts, it just simply is not going to happen.  
I have said it from the beginning,  "something is up" with how long all this is taking and not a single peep from anyone, I still think some kind of "screwing" is gonna end up coming out of all this.  There are secret meetings going on and it will all come out in the long run.  Next Wed will mark 20 weeks...

You Think UPS has the Best contract??? Really???
Go Read it!!!! Your Cherry picking from it! You get to spend two weeks on the road right before Christmas... One of many things in their contract!!

 

[700UW]

Go ask the PMUS fleet and CSA what happened to them when they were non-union.

And it wasn't pretty.

 

[TWU informer]

You have been in negotiations so you should step down as you failed your membership but you will never take blame and you blame everyone else.

And by the way I have never been and never will be a supporter of management and if you knew me you would know that.

 
Wow Dude, if that is the way it works and since you admit to being in IAM negotiations on a regular basis, and you have failed the membership so horribly, then you should go to the roof top of the nearest and tallest building and jump off.

 

[Bob Owens]

You Think UPS has the Best contract??? Really???
Go Read it!!!! Your Cherry picking from it! You get to spend two weeks on the road right before Christmas... One of many things in their contract!!

Sadly Yes, most of us think so. Know of a better one?
 
How about working Christmas for Four hours pay?
 
Have a link to your contract? All I have is an old contract and I don't remember anything about two weeks on the road. 

 

[700UW]

I was involved in the first bankruptcy negotiations and it's quite apparent you don't undetsta the section 1113 process.

I always fought for my members and you can ask any of them.

I was on the 2004/05 negotiating committee.

 

[MetalMover]

You Think UPS has the Best contract??? Really???
Go Read it!!!! Your Cherry picking from it! You get to spend two weeks on the road right before Christmas... One of many things in their contract!!

EVERYONE spends two weeks on the road right before Christmas? EVERYONE? 

 

[scorpion 2]

I was involved in the first bankruptcy negotiations and it's quite apparent you don't undetsta the section 1113 process.

I always fought for my members and you can ask any of them.

I was on the 2004/05 negotiating committee.

Please dont fight for M+R. PLease mr. please.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[AA767JET]

Sorry for shifting gears off the topic but is there any truth that AA is looking to cut 150 line AMT's at DFW ??