The only reason we got bigger raises in 2001 is that all AMTs at other airlines got huge raises and the bar went up. Of course the TWU gave it all away and then some less than 2 years later and made sure the AMTs took a much bigger hit than anyone else. The end result is higher cuts for AMTs than anyone else. The typical TWU "Negotiating tactic".Bob Owens said:
2014 maintenance talks
- Thread starter dfw gen
- Start date
Yes and back in 1999 company apologists pretending to be Union leaders were telling their guys that they were being unrealistic if they thought we would break $30/hr, that its not possible. After protracted negotiations the IAM at NW brought back a typical weak agreement with raises that barely covered inflation and the mechanics there ousted them for a new union, took aim for $40/hr, the NMB took sides with the company and threatened to put them on Ice forever unless they lowered their demands and they settled for around $35/hr. It was an increase of around 30% right out of the gate. That shifted the whole industry for mechanics, we all saw similar raises. Most other work groups saw raises but only the pilots saw raises proportional to the mechanics.OldGuy@AA said:
Pay had been lagging for nearly 20 years, not including benefits, this jump restored hourly wages pretty close to the buying power we had lost. Other than the pilots other work groups saw less of a recovery. After 9-11, and the Unions assisting the Airlines in getting millions in handouts from the government due to 9-11, our Unions got into bed with management and punished us by hitting us with bigger cuts, and under valuing our concessions compared to any other group. They also worked with management to eliminate and target the NWA mechanics who started the whole thing. And the rest of us just stood by.
Today our deficit is around double what it was in 1999.
Our pay adjusted for inflation, and the pension and other losses needs to be at least $50/hr to bring our buying power back to where it was in the beginning of 2003. We should not think of this as being unrealistic because it isn't any more unrealistic than it was in1999 when we were being told by our Unions that $30/hr was unrealistic. We were told it was unrealistic then because our Unions were looking at this as an across the board expectation and they were not prepared to engage in such a battle had they done that.
The fact is that outside of being stuck in terrible long term agreements we have leverage like we never enjoyed before. Over half the schools that produce A&P mechanics have closed over the last ten years. The average age of airline mechanics is well in excess of the average age of the population, kids are not coming into the industry. I believe that at AA the average age now in excess of 55. Thats why I feel that Little and the company were/are eager to stick us all in the IAMNPF. Currently the average mechanic at AA can retire with a full pension in just five years. My guess is that when you count early retirement at 55 close to 70% of the current mechanic workforce will be eligible to retire before this contract becomes amendable and I'd say that 90% are unhappy with this job and will leave as soon as they are able. I believe we have several stations at present where the entire mechanic workforce is eligible to retire. Our current pension allows mechanics to retire, collect a pension and start working at SWA, JET Blue and UPS, all of whom pay much better than AA. So their plan is to try and make us stay till 65 by rolling us into the IAMNPF, this would also deny us the ability to work for other carriers even after 65, so many would have to stick around even longer, many would be stuck here till they die.
We need to do whatever it takes to prevent this Association, even if the only option is starting a new union from scratch. Then we need to repair the damage of diminished expectations that ten years of Videtich-Little and Richard have inflicted upon us.
So the bottom line is the twu and the iam could not care enough about the membership to negotiate together untill this association crap gets rejected? Record profits and all they care about is self preservation. Screw the membership all they care about are the dues.
You would think they would try to put a good example forward to try and sell the sh*t sandwich of an association. Nope not the case even before the association as a sign of good faith they could TRY and work together.
I do predict that if maintenance does leave the iam/twu association under current management within ten years they will lose the whole ball of wax. Again you would think in the interest of self preservation they woukd make some type of effort to SHOW us something.
Fools all of them!
You would think they would try to put a good example forward to try and sell the sh*t sandwich of an association. Nope not the case even before the association as a sign of good faith they could TRY and work together.
I do predict that if maintenance does leave the iam/twu association under current management within ten years they will lose the whole ball of wax. Again you would think in the interest of self preservation they woukd make some type of effort to SHOW us something.
Fools all of them!
jimntx
Veteran
Ok, what's your secret? 19 posts, two pages to the thread already, and WT hasn't inserted a single comment about how mechanics at Delta are in a Paradise. 
The FAs have their deal, wage rates are above all counterparts.
The pilots have an offer on the table with wage rates that are 3% higher than DL.
Mechanics currently have nothing even remotely close to this, and there is no news of anything happening anytime soon.
Anyone think DP will offer the mechanics DL pay rate plus 3% like he did the pilots?
When we finally do get to the table do we get retroactive pay? Back to when?
Right now the international is hiding behind the NMB decision process, ( thanks J. Little)
which, btw, sets a new world record with every passing day.
Shouldn't there be some pressure put on the NMB from both the union, and the company to resolve this.
The pilots have an offer on the table with wage rates that are 3% higher than DL.
Mechanics currently have nothing even remotely close to this, and there is no news of anything happening anytime soon.
Anyone think DP will offer the mechanics DL pay rate plus 3% like he did the pilots?
When we finally do get to the table do we get retroactive pay? Back to when?
Right now the international is hiding behind the NMB decision process, ( thanks J. Little)
which, btw, sets a new world record with every passing day.
Shouldn't there be some pressure put on the NMB from both the union, and the company to resolve this.
Because if he did a few Delta mechanics would post how wrong he is. Its not a huge community, we talk, Delta mechanics outside of Atlanta are not happy.jimntx said:Ok, what's your secret? 19 posts, two pages to the thread already, and WT hasn't inserted a single comment about how mechanics at Delta are in a Paradise.
Not sure what the hold up is.dfw gen said:
The Association built their argument to suppress our right to choose our bargaining agent by citing the fact that the IBT and CWA formed such an Association and the NMB approved it. Big difference is those Unions conducted an internal vote first, thats sketchy enough because the ballott could have been presented in a way thats coercive but the NMB accepted it and nobody challenged it. The TWU/IAM Association was never put before the members and we received and forwarded them over 3000 signatures saying they were against the Association and if there is to be any change that they get to vote on it. Clearly should the NMB decide to just dump us in the Association we must defend our rights and challenge that decision. Maybe they are stuck between trying to please the carrier and the Unions and following the law which was designed to protect the members right to choose.
It would be so much simpler if the IAM agreed to back out and the TWU reaffirmed their commitment to negotiate a deal that allows those who want to remain in the IAMNPF to do so. I'm sure the company would agree to keep the extra money and just send the IAMNPF the $4k/year. Instead the IAM is using those poor guys as leverage.
Seems someone is scared of the IAM.
Why don't you step down as you failed your members, oh wait it's everyone else's fault and not yours Bob.
And everyone knows your a closet AMFA supporter,how does Thomas Paine feel about that?
Why don't you step down as you failed your members, oh wait it's everyone else's fault and not yours Bob.
And everyone knows your a closet AMFA supporter,how does Thomas Paine feel about that?
700UW said:
Yes, damn right I'm scared, seeing what they did at US I'm scared of having the IAM in our negotiations. I don't want to end up being a 70 year old mechanic who cant retire like you have over at US or the TWA guys we have here at AA thanks to the IAM and the IAMNPF.
My members had and have the right to remove me whenever they want. If they ask me to step down I will oblige, I've said that from the very beginning, even before we put in recall. So far they have elected me 5 times. Instead of telling me to step down why not try telling them to remove me?
Does the IAM even have recall? Who voted you on to the negotiating committee? Oh thats right you were appointed by people your peers did not elect.
I rather be accused of being a closet AMFA supporter than a closet management supporter like you. As Mike Quill said"I rather be a red to the rats than a rat to the reds".
You have been in negotiations so you should step down as you failed your membership but you will never take blame and you blame everyone else.
And by the way I have never been and never will be a supporter of management and if you knew me you would know that.
And by the way I have never been and never will be a supporter of management and if you knew me you would know that.
I know enough about you to know I don't want to know more.700UW said:
Must have never come across a mirror in your lifetime.
I admit that we failed to get a decent deal out of BK but your IAM sought to get the wage we got while in BK eight years after leaving BK, but instead of admitting failure you claim success. So what I admit to calling a failure you call a success with the IAM so what does that say about you?
When you have a real topic to discuss let me know.
Glenn Quagmire
Veteran
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That is true Bob. The ones who work for Delta will not post on a forum like this for fear of being "Kipped".Bob Owens said:
I am friends with many. Two laid off (original Delta) I know turned down recall many years ago saying that they had enough. Several ex-DFW who like Delta as much as a Vietnam Vet likes Jane Fonda.
A couple of ex-CVG who make the commute to ATL after being forced to go there with no assistance or options of going anywhere else (no bumping and no severance. I know of some CVG who just quit, like the DFW guys did). They hate their job but are now in their late 50's and have 28+ years in. Knew several who were at MCO...key word were. Same thing at Tampa.
I know a few who like what they do, but they have moved into other Tech Ops functions like planners, Maint Control, etc., but they also want to live in ATL. It seems that most outside of ATL are the ones who got shafted.
Kind of like aa mechs outside of Tulsa get shafted,Glenn Quagmire said:
Not surprised that guys that were laid off or forced to move aren't happy with their company, I see a lot of former TUL, AFW, MCI, MSP, DTW, mechs who aren't happy either. So the fact that these mechs aren't happy doesn't mean a whole lot. People's attitudes are subjective, ask a tul mech, he probably thinks the twu is doing a fine job, but when you ask line mech he's not going to be as positive.
