2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[ograc]

I agree with you Jester. I have witnessed clerks putting bags on a belt where each bag was touching each other (because the belt was so slow) and then putting only three or four bags on the belt at a time (because the belt was to fast) and the supervisor question was there a slowdown and why. On more than one occasion I have witnessed a supervisor consider it a slowdown when actually it was working safe. We have all heard "work by the book" or "work safe" and it is almost always construed as a "slowdown". Having said that, at times we are our on worst enemy because we do cut corners and work unsafe just to play cards, get on the laptop, or enjoy a longer break.
Always work safe and management won't have a leg to stand on if both the clerk and the UNION are doing their respective jobs.

 
My point exactly AANOTOK. There will never be standards set as to how many bags or cargo can be loaded by one individual. The company's own policies allow individual discretion. With that being said... it doesn't really matter if supervisors interpret, following company safety guidelines, as a slowdown. A direction and a reminder to work safe should never be construed as a union endorsed "slowdown". If working within company safety guidelines, disrupts the operation, then maybe additional staffing is required. If Jester is waiting for the union to tell him to slow down, with an endorsed job action, I hope he is not holding his breath. As you said... "Always work safe and management won't have a leg to stand on if both the clerk and the UNION are doing their respective jobs." Work Safe! Know your limitations! Use common sense! It's not brain surgery.

 

[Jester]

 
If working within company safety guidelines, disrupts the operation, then maybe additional staffing is required.

 
Ograc, 
 
Please show me the written Company "guidelines" as to safe bin loading?  Are there any? When a Manager can question any injury based upon some subjective, ever-changing, so-called "standard", then I question any alleged "guidelines".
 
Seriously, I wish you weren't so effing obtuse about this matter!

 

[WeAAsles]

Ograc, 
 
Please show me the written Company "guidelines" as to safe bin loading?  Are there any? When a Manager can question any injury based upon some subjective, ever-changing, so-called "standard", then I question any alleged "guidelines".
 
Seriously, I wish you weren't so effing obtuse about this matter!

Jester there are guidelines that at least on our side and I'm sure yours as well. The company calls that "Rate of Exchange" I did the math on it once and it amounts to about 6 seconds a bag. You are required to be able to lift 50 lbs and maneuver 70 lbs. The HEAVY tags are what alert you that upon your discretion you can ask for assistance if needed.

CARGO is correct that we all have different abilities and strength levels and we each should know best how to judge that. I don't believe in the term "Quick Turn" because that implies to me that I'm expected to rush. I never compromise my body or safety by rushing.

 

[Jester]

Jester there are guidelines that at least on our side and I'm sure yours as well. The company calls that "Rate of Exchange" I did the math on it once and it amounts to about 6 seconds a bag. You are required to be able to lift 50 lbs and maneuver 70 lbs. The HEAVY tags are what alert you that upon your discretion you can ask for assistance if needed.

CARGO is correct that we all have different abilities and strength levels and we each should know best how to judge that. I don't believe in the term "Quick Turn" because that implies to me that I'm expected to rush. I never compromise my body or safety by rushing.

 
I would be completely stunned if we had any written standards akin to "Rate of Exchange" or 6 seconds a bag... usually, I just try to figure no more than 4 bags on a belt on the upload on a moderately paced belt leaving about 5-6 feet between bags.  I have never heard of any standards besides "If It is Too Fast Then Stop the Belt" method, which wasn't so bad if we could short stack, but that's all changing using AA's loading system where short-stacking has all but been eliminated.
 
Now, how does AA handle bag scanners?  Management has no objections to leaving some poor schlub to scan and toss bags out the door alone in the bin.  Nothing like the one hand pull on a pile of bags to dislocate an elbow or shoulder.  We are working like the 3rd rate America West Airlines in its disregard for safety in PHX.

 

[700UW]

Question.
 
Isnt the NFL Charters suppose to be worked by US Fleet?
 
In CLT tonight, Wilson marshaled and used their stair trucks on the Steelers charter.
 

 

[ograc]

 
I would be completely stunned if we had any written standards akin to "Rate of Exchange" or 6 seconds a bag... usually, I just try to figure no more than 4 bags on a belt on the upload on a moderately paced belt leaving about 5-6 feet between bags.  I have never heard of any standards besides "If It is Too Fast Then Stop the Belt" method, which wasn't so bad if we could short stack, but that's all changing using AA's loading system where short-stacking has all but been eliminated.
 
Now, how does AA handle bag scanners?  Management has no objections to leaving some poor schlub to scan and toss bags out the door alone in the bin.  Nothing like the one hand pull on a pile of bags to dislocate an elbow or shoulder.  We are working like the 3rd rate America West Airlines in its disregard for safety in PHX.

 
if management told you to jump from the nearest bridge would you choose to do so? You and your fellow workers are working like 3rd rate America West Airlines with a disregard for safety in PHX by choice. With the safety policies in place I would ask who's fault is that? Be careful when you point a finger; because many times, when you do, three fingers point back at yourself. Maybe it's time to grow a set and look out for your collective selves instead of waiting for management to give you standards. If you feel a practice is a risk to your safety you have every right to seek assistance.

 

[Jester]

 
if management told you to jump from the nearest bridge would you choose to do so? You and your fellow workers are working like 3rd rate America West Airlines with a disregard for safety in PHX by choice. With the safety policies in place I would ask who's fault is that? Be careful when you point a finger; because many times, when you do, three fingers point back at yourself. Maybe it's time to grow a set and look out for your collective selves instead of waiting for management to give you standards. If you feel a practice is a risk to your safety you have every right to seek assistance.

 
Yeah, it's okay absolve yourself from any responsibility when a union brother brings a problem to your attention... you aren't the first union "leader" to whom I have had this discussion, and the result to date has been placation and platitudes.  I have even offered a reasonable solution... how many do that?  I swear, there times I cannot tell the difference between our union representatives and our Management.

 

[robbedagain]

700 sounds like a grievance is in order.     We handled the Ravens charter Friday afternoon  it was an AA 763  but yesterday bec mgmt. could not get anyone to work the inbound Ravens charter  AA's Envoy to handle the inbound....

 

[Kev3188]

I would be completely stunned if we had any written standards akin to "Rate of Exchange" or 6 seconds a bag...

Have you looked? Not being a jerk, just asking...

Also, why can't you guys short stack anymore?
 
 

Now, how does AA handle bag scanners?  Management has no objections to leaving some poor schlub to scan and toss bags out the door alone in the bin.  Nothing like the one hand pull on a pile of bags to dislocate an elbow or shoulder.  We are working like the 3rd rate America West Airlines in its disregard for safety in PHX.

I've mentioned this before, but ergonomic nightmares aside, who thought scanning in the bin was a good thing? It makes no sense no matter how you look at it...

 
 

Maybe it's time to grow a set and look out for your collective selves instead of waiting for management to give you standards. If you feel a practice is a risk to your safety you have every right to seek assistance.

We're often our own worst enemies...

People are quick to rattle off the rights under a CBA. Ask what they think they're responsibilities might be, and it's often met with silence...


 
 

 
 

700 sounds like a grievance is in order.

Absolutely.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
I would be completely stunned if we had any written standards akin to "Rate of Exchange" or 6 seconds a bag... usually, I just try to figure no more than 4 bags on a belt on the upload on a moderately paced belt leaving about 5-6 feet between bags.  I have never heard of any standards besides "If It is Too Fast Then Stop the Belt" method, which wasn't so bad if we could short stack, but that's all changing using AA's loading system where short-stacking has all but been eliminated.
 
Now, how does AA handle bag scanners?  Management has no objections to leaving some poor schlub to scan and toss bags out the door alone in the bin.  Nothing like the one hand pull on a pile of bags to dislocate an elbow or shoulder.  We are working like the 3rd rate America West Airlines in its disregard for safety in PHX.

We haven't started inbound scanning yet but yes the man sitting in the doorway is going to be the one scanning the bags. I did one practice flight a few weeks back and honestly had no problem doing it. Again then SLOW DOWN though. If the guy is throwing the bags too fast for you to scan tell him to stop going so fast. The rate of exchange works on both ends. If the local driver needs to make the clock time then he needs to go and drop the first bags and come back for the rest. Get those Premiums in. I have dumped bags alone before but if it's packed I only dump as far as I can reach and then I will sit and wait till someone comes up to help me. If you guys are dumping full flights by yourself I have no clue what you're doing, Seriously? You do one belly at a time if you have to with 2 men if that's all you have and the Locals are the priority.

As for the outbound. I have many times been at the bottom of the belt, scanned and thrown to the belly guys. The pace of doing that almost makes the 6 second rate of exchange come naturally. And I don't feel like I'm rushing doing that either.

If you guys are cutting corners to get the job done, that's on you. You're shooting yourselves in the foot. If I was management I'm not going to give you any more help if you're getting the job done. Why should I? The numbers show me that you don't need it. Everything to this company is about making the numbers. You can scream at me as loud as you like but the numbers are the only thing I'm going to hear.

If you're rushing because of peer pressure or some manager is standing there with a pad and pencil stop doing it then. Be the leader and take charge of the situation. Get your crew to see that your way is the right way.

Another thing how I do it. Again no quick turns. (Summer) I dump a flight. I get out of the belly. I go inside. I take a drink of water and towel myself down. Then I come out to do the outbound. No compromises there and I'm consistent. In the winter or cooler weather depending on how I feel I may stay in the belly if I feel ok?

I hope this helps? It's all up to you guys. Not your Lead and certainly not management dictate the pace you can handle.





 

 

[robbedagain]

WeAA  you have not been scanning the inbound bags?  out bound?   We have been doing that for a few yrs  but I believe by end of either this yr or next yr new scanners are coming  that's suppose to be more helpful w regards to bin locations....
 
Kev  Ive found that short stacking on an 321 is easier than say 320 or 319    but the load plans typically have a max amt in say A1   then may be A2    and that I say is easier on 321s rather than 320s or 19s bec the wall on 321s is right there in A1  vs the 320s n 19s   Not sure if its like that at the wiget or NWA

 

[WeAAsles]

As for short stacking. I guess that means not going all the way to the wall? We short stack in the back of the 737 depending on how many bags the CC says are going back there? That belly is longer than route 66 so if you don't want to destroy your shoulders you really don't have much of a choice unless you have a third person up there. If the company ever winds up writing us up for it they're going to put themselves in a very bad position because then we will demand a third person.

The front belly you don't need to do that as it's much shorter. If you can't reach the guy at the wall there, you may need to start doing some pushups?

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAA  you have not been scanning the inbound bags?  out bound?   We have been doing that for a few yrs  but I believe by end of either this yr or next yr new scanners are coming  that's suppose to be more helpful w regards to bin locations....
 
Kev  Ive found that short stacking on an 321 is easier than say 320 or 319    but the load plans typically have a max amt in say A1   then may be A2    and that I say is easier on 321s rather than 320s or 19s bec the wall on 321s is right there in A1  vs the 320s n 19s   Not sure if its like that at the wiget or NWA

We've been scanning the outbounds for years now but not the inbounds.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
if management told you to jump from the nearest bridge would you choose to do so? You and your fellow workers are working like 3rd rate America West Airlines with a disregard for safety in PHX by choice. With the safety policies in place I would ask who's fault is that? Be careful when you point a finger; because many times, when you do, three fingers point back at yourself. Maybe it's time to grow a set and look out for your collective selves instead of waiting for management to give you standards. If you feel a practice is a risk to your safety you have every right to seek assistance.

I wanted to come back and touch on this comment. Cargo it's not necessarily about seniority rather than ideology? In DFW which is going to be he most senior station for both airlines when we finally really become one, they have the same problem.  They have daily lineups that can be 6 and one half a day. 6 turns and a terminator. Almost anything that's thrown at them there they make it work. The company will always try to maximize productivity if you let them. The company just loves that Southern "Get the job done" ideology.

 

[AANOTOK]

The company just loves that Southern "Get the job done" ideology.

Born and raised in the South, I will leave that comment alone!