WN Mechanics seek mediation

[Go Figure]

The only thing that will get this group to get rid of Seham is a lack of results, and a realization of how much we have paid with very little to show for it, and only then will they want change!

Wow. I thought the amfa members controlled everything. It's there Union and they tell leaders what to do. Maybe memberships happy with his counsel. If so- good luck. I wish the membership well.

 

[swamt]

I will my opinion is this I know we have bent on some scope based on the economics numbers, I think where AMFA went wrong is they have spoon fed alot of guys that we can get you a raise and not have any work rule changes and the company from the beginning has had their must haves we all know that, and the reason they don't want to meet more than they have is that very reason! We need to be honest with membership, because every group that has come to a T/ A with SWA has had work rule changes, so now we are trying to get more economics to make it more acceptable to the membership ! And again thanks for your help !

No prob. But, we are not going to fall for the games being played. Yes the co. wants rule changes, and YES they will come at a cost, that's called negotiations. We will see what we have to vote on when it comes.

Just because you file an air21 doesn't mean you were fired. We have folks that have filed air21's and have their jobs. I believe the company could careless about this group. The attitude of the company is, my way or the highway. They are gonna get there maintenance program and rules even if it has to go to self help. We are dealing with a ruthless group that has been hired to get it done. Why do you think it's taking so long? Through the grapevine mechanics are being fired for things SWA would not have before.

Why in the hell are you soooo bent on "self help?" You just cannot leave it alone, WHY? Self help is not even close to being in the picture. Please explain yourself...

The only thing that will get this group to get rid of Seham is a lack of results, and a realization of how much we have paid with very little to show for it, and only then will they want change!

Why are you so stuck on Seham? The GD teamsters would never fight, with lawyers, for our contract, you really need to get a clue on the comparisons between the teamsters and AMFA. Huge difference.

Here's what Seham has made off our dues the last 5 years we haven't had a pay raise. 2016-$311,056 , 2015-$239,703, 2014-$185,911, 2013-$371,187, 2012-$445,706. May or may not be worth I don't know. I feel one thing, is that I never made a nickel off it.

Look up what the Pilots have paid. Look up what the F/A's have paid. Look up what the mechanics have paid. Do a comparo. and get back to us. It's all very simple, we, as mechanics have paid the less, period, get a clue brother, then post your findings. Stop trying to slam the attorney's group, not gonna work.

 

[B737 driver]

No prob. But, we are not going to fall for the games being played. Yes the co. wants rule changes, and YES they will come at a cost, that's called negotiations. We will see what we have to vote on when it comes.


Why in the hell are you soooo bent on "self help?" You just cannot leave it alone, WHY? Self help is not even close to being in the picture. Please explain yourself...


Why are you so stuck on Seham? The GD teamsters would never fight, with lawyers, for our contract, you really need to get a clue on the comparisons between the teamsters and AMFA. Huge difference.


Look up what the Pilots have paid. Look up what the F/A's have paid. Look up what the mechanics have paid. Do a comparo. and get back to us. It's all very simple, we, as mechanics have paid the less, period, get a clue brother, then post your findings. Stop trying to slam the attorney's group, not gonna work.

Be honest on this lawyer we have, was the same lawyer that AMFA has always used, the same lawyer that walked away from Northwest after that fiasco. I don't care what the f/a pay nor do I care what the pilots paid, they fired the guy, why doesn't the AMFA national director go talk to SWAPA and ask why they fired the law firm! This guy will promise you the moon , paint a great picture and take your money! A perfect example is filing the lawsuit after we lost to a federal arbitrator, now he wants to set us up on the air21 lawsuits, how come we will not audit them or entertain bids to see if we can save the membership some money , is this guy someone's family member or is it because AMFA grew out of his Dad's lawfirm in the 1960's and it's against code to break with tradition. You ask why Seham please remove your rose colored glasses and see that this guy is just a shark that will take us for all he can !

 

[B737 driver]

No prob. But, we are not going to fall for the games being played. Yes the co. wants rule changes, and YES they will come at a cost, that's called negotiations. We will see what we have to vote on when it comes.


Why in the hell are you soooo bent on "self help?" You just cannot leave it alone, WHY? Self help is not even close to being in the picture. Please explain yourself...


Why are you so stuck on Seham? The GD teamsters would never fight, with lawyers, for our contract, you really need to get a clue on the comparisons between the teamsters and AMFA. Huge difference.


Look up what the Pilots have paid. Look up what the F/A's have paid. Look up what the mechanics have paid. Do a comparo. and get back to us. It's all very simple, we, as mechanics have paid the less, period, get a clue brother, then post your findings. Stop trying to slam the attorney's group, not gonna work.

Oh and one big difference the elephant in the room the pilots and the F/ A s have new contracts, we do not, yet we continue to pay this law firm with no results !

 

[I'll have another]

No prob. But, we are not going to fall for the games being played. Yes the co. wants rule changes, and YES they will come at a cost, that's called negotiations. We will see what we have to vote on when it comes.


Why in the hell are you soooo bent on "self help?" You just cannot leave it alone, WHY? Self help is not even close to being in the picture. Please explain yourself...


Why are you so stuck on Seham? The GD teamsters would never fight, with lawyers, for our contract, you really need to get a clue on the comparisons between the teamsters and AMFA. Huge difference.


Look up what the Pilots have paid. Look up what the F/A's have paid. Look up what the mechanics have paid. Do a comparo. and get back to us. It's all very simple, we, as mechanics have paid the less, period, get a clue brother, then post your findings. Stop trying to slam the attorney's group, not gonna work.

Of course we paid less. Our work group is a hell of a lot smaller than the pilots and flight attendants. Self help is part of the RLA process. This will get settled one way or the other. To not talk about it if it comes to that is foolish. A plan maybe. I was told by one mechanic it is best to prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Smart words.

 

[B737 driver]

Of course we paid less. Our work group is a hell of a lot smaller than the pilots and flight attendants. Self help is part of the RLA process. This will get settled one way or the other. To not talk about it if it comes to that is foolish. A plan maybe. I was told by one mechanic it is best to prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Smart words.

This is what should bother us as a group and we need to think about long and hard, all the other groups are done at SWA we have no leverage and we are totally isolated, do you really think the other unions would help us, beyond lip service, nope ! We need to get a deal the best we can and move on!- Look what happened to the Airtran people, except for their ramp !

 

[sendmeupacrowsfoot]

Oh and one big difference the elephant in the room the pilots and the F/ A s have new contracts, we do not, yet we continue to pay this law firm with no results !

I think you are getting a little confused here. Seham & co are our legal counsel. He's not negotiating our contract. That would be our negotiating committee, which only has one lawyer present on it.

 

[sendmeupacrowsfoot]

On another note. Just an observation but I don't see many mechanics going the extra mile like they used to. I guess the wind has left their sails etc......... imho

 

[swamt]

Pilots are done because they HAD to have an agreement before they would fly the Max, just like they HAD to have an agreement to fly the 800's. The F/A's were the same. I would call that leverage on their side. Now the company needs an agreement with the mechanics in order to have some movement with the 800's and MAX's. This is why they are so bent on getting some give on the scope, they have to have it in order not to spend several years in litigation and expenses if they try to get maint done not in house as we have currently in the contract. It may not be as much leverage as the pilots and such but it is leaning in our favor because they will fall within the timeline of this new contract. The company needs relief for some future maint, just like they needed relief with the pilots and F/A's. They moved with the pilots, they moved with the F/A's it is time for them to move with the mechanics. The NC is not just gonna give the farm away, this is not the teamsters anymore. They are looking out for the best interest of all of us down the road, and in the future. If we gave the company what they are currently asking for, yea, sure, we could all be making better money and even industry leading, however, they only are guaranteeing that the current people that are here are safe, and that no one will get riffed or laid off, they do not say where or what shift they will all be working, or what kind of maint. You do realize with this new maint program they need will be the majority of it on overnight maint don't you? They are gonna need several more headcount on graveyards without adding any headcount to the ranks. They will just do the typical rearrange the mechanics they have now around to fill that. You will start to see premium shop positions go bye-bye, they will start to farm everything out and slowly rearrange the current mechanics where they need them and NOT hire any new hires for those positions. This is why they will not agree with an increase in the ratio of mechanics to A/C. They keep saying all mechanics that are here when this contract is signed are protected, they just won't say where they will all be working or on what shift. And BTW, they also are saying that the current number of mechanics currently employed are protected for the length of this contract (5 years) not saying anything about beyond that. They say it on video in their last update from McCrady I do believe, check it out and pay very close attention to the words he uses. It will set you back a bit.

 

[Birdman]

On another note. Just an observation but I don't see many mechanics going the extra mile like they used to. I guess they have lost their "give a shite", if you know what I mean. The wind has left their sails etc......... imho

That's a shame, if I'm going to ask the company for a raise I need to justify it by being to work on time, cooperative, and productive.
On another note the "Ask Gary" segment featured DAL Engine Shop Inspector Robert Williams asking how we resolve the negotiations impasse.
Gary's response:
-5 years is too long
-We deserve a raise
-Employee's should vote
-Union has to let the members vote
-There is proper pay for proper work
-He hopes it happens this year
-He'll do everything he can to make it happen
Mr. Kelly exemplified why there has been a lack of progress with negotiations, as his negotiators are simply reflecting his attitude. I believe he's committed to everything he said with the exception being his last comment. "Everything" would have to include him being present in negotiations and we all know that will never happen.

 

[B737 driver]

Pilots are done because they HAD to have an agreement before they would fly the Max, just like they HAD to have an agreement to fly the 800's. The F/A's were the same. I would call that leverage on their side. Now the company needs an agreement with the mechanics in order to have some movement with the 800's and MAX's. This is why they are so bent on getting some give on the scope, they have to have it in order not to spend several years in litigation and expenses if they try to get maint done not in house as we have currently in the contract. It may not be as much leverage as the pilots and such but it is leaning in our favor because they will fall within the timeline of this new contract. The company needs relief for some future maint, just like they needed relief with the pilots and F/A's. They moved with the pilots, they moved with the F/A's it is time for them to move with the mechanics. The NC is not just gonna give the farm away, this is not the teamsters anymore. They are looking out for the best interest of all of us down the road, and in the future. If we gave the company what they are currently asking for, yea, sure, we could all be making better money and even industry leading, however, they only are guaranteeing that the current people that are here are safe, and that no one will get riffed or laid off, they do not say where or what shift they will all be working, or what kind of maint. You do realize with this new maint program they need will be the majority of it on overnight maint don't you? They are gonna need several more headcount on graveyards without adding any headcount to the ranks. They will just do the typical rearrange the mechanics they have now around to fill that. You will start to see premium shop positions go bye-bye, they will start to farm everything out and slowly rearrange the current mechanics where they need them and NOT hire any new hires for those positions. This is why they will not agree with an increase in the ratio of mechanics to A/C. They keep saying all mechanics that are here when this contract is signed are protected, they just won't say where they will all be working or on what shift. And BTW, they also are saying that the current number of mechanics currently employed are protected for the length of this contract (5 years) not saying anything about beyond that. They say it on video in their last update from McCrady I do believe, check it out and pay very close attention to the words he uses. It will set you back a bit.

You just answered mine and your question why we really have little to no leverage , if we had any real leverage do you really think they would have met with us more than 2 to 3 days a month for the last five years, they just push us into a corner, until we bend to what they want !I am at a line station and it falls on deaf ears about shops and C checks, and most of the line guys will just take the money and run, the company knows it, therefore no real leverage !

 

[I'll have another]

Pilots are done because they HAD to have an agreement before they would fly the Max, just like they HAD to have an agreement to fly the 800's. The F/A's were the same. I would call that leverage on their side. Now the company needs an agreement with the mechanics in order to have some movement with the 800's and MAX's. This is why they are so bent on getting some give on the scope, they have to have it in order not to spend several years in litigation and expenses if they try to get maint done not in house as we have currently in the contract. It may not be as much leverage as the pilots and such but it is leaning in our favor because they will fall within the timeline of this new contract. The company needs relief for some future maint, just like they needed relief with the pilots and F/A's. They moved with the pilots, they moved with the F/A's it is time for them to move with the mechanics. The NC is not just gonna give the farm away, this is not the teamsters anymore. They are looking out for the best interest of all of us down the road, and in the future. If we gave the company what they are currently asking for, yea, sure, we could all be making better money and even industry leading, however, they only are guaranteeing that the current people that are here are safe, and that no one will get riffed or laid off, they do not say where or what shift they will all be working, or what kind of maint. You do realize with this new maint program they need will be the majority of it on overnight maint don't you? They are gonna need several more headcount on graveyards without adding any headcount to the ranks. They will just do the typical rearrange the mechanics they have now around to fill that. You will start to see premium shop positions go bye-bye, they will start to farm everything out and slowly rearrange the current mechanics where they need them and NOT hire any new hires for those positions. This is why they will not agree with an increase in the ratio of mechanics to A/C. They keep saying all mechanics that are here when this contract is signed are protected, they just won't say where they will all be working or on what shift. And BTW, they also are saying that the current number of mechanics currently employed are protected for the length of this contract (5 years) not saying anything about beyond that. They say it on video in their last update from McCrady I do believe, check it out and pay very close attention to the words he uses. It will set you back a bit.

That was your best post yet! Here's the beef with the company's position. This could turn into a huge bumping scenario. I don't just mean a station realignment. I mean chasing jobs throughout the country. We are a very small group compared to the amount of aircraft. Station headcount should stay the same at all stations. Reduction in headcount should be made through attrition. You have many in the mid to late 50's that are gonna pack it in, in the next few years. The company knows you could thin the herd with bumping. All you'll get is a bunch of pissed off mechanics.

 

[WeAAsles]

No prob. But, we are not going to fall for the games being played. Yes the co. wants rule changes, and YES they will come at a cost, that's called negotiations. We will see what we have to vote on when it comes.


Why in the hell are you soooo bent on "self help?" You just cannot leave it alone, WHY? Self help is not even close to being in the picture. Please explain yourself...


Why are you so stuck on Seham? The GD teamsters would never fight, with lawyers, for our contract, you really need to get a clue on the comparisons between the teamsters and AMFA. Huge difference.


Look up what the Pilots have paid. Look up what the F/A's have paid. Look up what the mechanics have paid. Do a comparo. and get back to us. It's all very simple, we, as mechanics have paid the less, period, get a clue brother, then post your findings. Stop trying to slam the attorney's group, not gonna work.

I bet you'd let Lee Seham wine and dine your girlfriend as you sit watching. What a suk azz.

 

[Hackman]

I bet you'd let Lee Seham wine and dine your girlfriend as you sit watching. What a suk azz.

Hey Samsonite Sally, weren't you the putz giving Parker a reach-a-round for the recent purchase of your girly pink V6 mustang recently? Watch who calls who a suk azz Davey, you might look like a base moron .

"Actually I drink Frappachinos on my way into work in this beauty thanks to my friends in the TWU to be quite honest. And of course credit to Parker and Company as well."

 

[B737 driver]

Hey Samsonite Sally, weren't you the putz giving Parker a reach-a-round for the recent purchase of your girly pink V6 mustang recently? Watch who calls who a suk azz Davey, you might look like a base moron .

"Actually I drink Frappachinos on my way into work in this beauty thanks to my friends in the TWU to be quite honest. And of course credit to Parker and Company as well."

Hey Hackman how you been?