WN Mechanics seek mediation

[Go Figure]

Amfa has showed there power and strategy of bringing a big player in the industry to cba conclusion. They are waiting to see if the company will cave in and give up. Those days have never been gone playing with the big carriers. Playing with the big boys now and I repeat- Amfa has never had a cba that stood up to time playin with the big carriers. Their philosophy is failed. I wish well on my friends in this mess but long bumpy ride ahead digging out of the gopher hole Seham is in. Maybe swamt was able to extract him with backhoe and get his advice going forward. Good luck.

 

[B737 driver]

My train of thought isn't off. You are confusing yourself with status quo and self help. In self help you have no contract. The company can impose its will on you. That's why they call it at will employee. They can lock you out, they can no longer recognize seniority, they can pay you what they want. They can impose anything they want on you. And most certainly can get rid of you and hire replacement workers. The contract is put in the trash.

Well to Answer Wn and Swamt, I don't know what local you are in, but the one I am in , and I don't want to know which one you are in, we only hear from the local rep during our T. V. meetings, we never see him, he never comes and visit the station, so the only info we get is through the updates and the meetings , we got a visit from the AMFA guy from the negotiating committee, at least he is doing his job, that is I honestly feel and a lot of my coworkers feel this is no different from any other industrial union, and that is what we experience from AMFA !

 

[sendmeupacrowsfoot]

Sub lineal hint. There are Federal Lawsuits filed from both sides. swamt says they are not part of issue. Shows his knowledge on negotiations. I got an idea. Have Seham and his merry band of minions file another lawsuit! Per swamt that will not affect CBA negotiations. His group needs to bill some more hours this month!

 

[Go Figure]

View attachment 11943

Finally swamt dug Seham out of his gopher hole and got picture of him in his office with strategic planning with the committee. Good job swamt. You are to be commended. Hourly billing commenced!!!!!

 

[B737 driver]

View attachment 11943

That's funny, I am sure the law suits will be dealt with when we reach a T/ A the ones I am talking about are the AMFA vs SWA and SWA vs AMFA, the A.I.R. 21 lawsuits are between the company and the individuals, AMFA 11 will want to have their part resolved but I don't see why the membership should be held hostage by what these individuals decided to do on their own by the self help violations , to me the union should be held harmless because they decided to act on their own !

 

[I'll have another]

Well to Answer Wn and Swamt, I don't know what local you are in, but the one I am in , and I don't want to know which one you are in, we only hear from the local rep during our T. V. meetings, we never see him, he never comes and visit the station, so the only info we get is through the updates and the meetings , we got a visit from the AMFA guy from the negotiating committee, at least he is doing his job, that is I honestly feel and a lot of my coworkers feel this is no different from any other industrial union, and that is what we experience from AMFA !

For years at the station I'm at, it was like the union never existed. Now we at least get updates from meetings. Too many company a-wipes where I'm at. They will sell you down the river for a quarter raise. A union rep where I'm out means you have a bullseye on your back.

 

[I'll have another]

My train of thought isn't off. You are confusing yourself with status quo and self help. In self help you have no contract. The company can impose its will on you. That's why they call it at will employee. They can lock you out, they can no longer recognize seniority, they can pay you what they want. They can impose anything they want on you. And most certainly can get rid of you and hire replacement workers. The contract is put in the trash.

Let me add a little bit more to my statement. If we went to just arbitration, it would be impossible to get to self help. Arbitration would decide the contract, we don't get a vote, contract is set. With med/arb which the company is pushing, we vote on a t/a. If the t/a does not pass, back to mediation and still on the road to self help. That's why I say if the company wants med/arb so bad, sign an loa stating they will not hire replacement workers if this gets to self help. Now the playing field is level.

 

[B737 driver]

For years at the station I'm at, it was like the union never existed. Now we at least get updates from meetings. Too many company a-wipes where I'm at. They will sell you down the river for a quarter raise. A union rep where I'm out means you have a bullseye on your back.

True I think outside of Meca Dallas we are really taken for granted, that is why where I am at they don't care, sad!

 

[B737 driver]

Let me add a little bit more to my statement. If we went to just arbitration, it would be impossible to get to self help. Arbitration would decide the contract, we don't get a vote, contract is set. With med/arb which the company is pushing, we vote on a t/a. If the t/a does not pass, back to mediation and still on the road to self help. That's why I say if the company wants med/arb so bad, sign an loa stating they will not hire replacement workers if this gets to self help. Now the playing field is level.

We would probably have to agree to drop our lawsuit, and they would have to drop ours to get them to sign that agreement! But after the Northwest situation I am not saying it is impossible, but I don't see this ever getting to self help, uou say the word Strike, especially the ex Northwest guys and they tell you to shove it up your ass, and the rest of the guys treat you like you have the plague !

 

[B737 driver]

We would probably have to agree to drop our lawsuit, and they would have to drop ours to get them to sign that agreement! But after the Northwest situation I am not saying it is impossible, but I don't see this ever getting to self help, uou say the word Strike, especially the ex Northwest guys and they tell you to shove it up your ass, and the rest of the guys treat you like you have the plague !

Drop theirs I met to say, sorry !

 

[swamt]

Thanks for the info, sorry for being grouchy, let me ask you a question we know where the company is, where do you think we went wrong, and what will be the sentiment if we are still here next year in the same situation ?

No prob. Driver. I really do understand the frustration of not having a new contract for the last 5 years. I am very frustrated too and extremely disappointed with our company on how they are now treating all the work groups and now especially us (mechanics group) at the table.
I don't think AMFA has gone wrong. AMFA has been very reasonable, AMFA has moved, AMFA has negotiated in good faith, AMFA has shown up for and asked for many, many more dates of negotiations each and every month, it IS the company that is doing all the opposite. They are not negotiating in good faith, they are not setting more than 2-3 days per month again, they are not being reasonable, they are not moving (although they did start) in scope, they are the ones stalling these negotiations until recently and all of a sudden they are ready to "get-er-done". The company has always stated at the table and away from the table that they will meet anytime, anywhere, over weekends whatever it takes to get this done. AMFA has asked company to meet more often even outside of mediation to work out the remaining issues and the company has flat out refused every offer by AMFA to do more than the pathetic 1-3 days per month. Which the company even said after finishing up with Pilots and F/A's they would make more dates available for us. That too wa a flat out lie. When our Lead Negotiator confronted the company on this they simply replied, "those are the only dates we are available." You see, the company is now (after 4 years and 11 months) saying let's get this thru Med-Arb, trying to make it look as if they are ready and or making moves to get this done. That's a false front from the company for the membership and the mediators. If the company was serious, they would be setting 3 day meetings every week 4 times per month. They have the option to do so, but will not take the time and make the move so it is obvious they are not ready to get something done yet.
Now I will retract a little. What has AMFA done wrong? Well, I have not a clue if it was wrong, but, pretty sure they used the financial company's suggestions on the new numbers in economics that the company just fell apart at. Well, they deserved that as they are the ones dragging this out for 5-6 years. And for what they are asking for and not moving the numbers were changed accordingly. Was it a little too much? Well some think so, but , this financial group simply re-ran the numbers after several other airlines came to agreements, including other groups here at SWA, all the while the company was stalling our contract nego's. I mentioned somewhere around the 2-3 year mark that the longer they drag this out the more it's gonna cost them and this is exactly what I was referring to, all the other groups coming to agreements with in our industry. Now let's see just how serious the company is in these next nego's and see if they are willing to move on scope, if they do maybe the NC will draw back a little, not sure, but it would make sense. I hate to tell ya this but if the company is not willing to move at all with scope still at these next nego's I see this going into next year.
Don't worry about being grouchy, we all do time to time. If you have research the pages you will see from time to time we all will let it fly every now and then. The key is to shake it off and come back with cooler heads and thoughts just as you did and I thank you for that.

On a side note: If you feel your rep is not doing his job there are processes you guys can take to repair it. Now I will say, if your rep is one of the guys that are tied up in nego's as well as being your rep, pls,pls,pls, give him a little rope. I say this because the company is acting so head strong at the table that these guys are working on their own time a lot to try and get this done. The nego. cmte. still has meetings, conference calls, gatherings with financial groups about the numbers etc... They really are a very busy group. Driver, reach out to your rep, tell him how you feel and ask for a station visit so you and others can sit with him and get all your questions answered. This week may not be a good week as I believe they are prepping for the upcoming nego's starting next week. Pretty sure we won't have anything at this next meeting (at least not expecting anything, as usual) so maybe set something up after this week and get all your guys rounded up with all their questions in hand to make it a very efficient station meeting. Again if your rep is not on the NC then there should be almost no excuses. Good luck with that, and pls let me know how it goes.

 

[swamt]

My train of thought isn't off. You are confusing yourself with status quo and self help. In self help you have no contract. The company can impose its will on you. That's why they call it at will employee. They can lock you out, they can no longer recognize seniority, they can pay you what they want. They can impose anything they want on you. And most certainly can get rid of you and hire replacement workers. The contract is put in the trash.

Explain to me in Med-Arb how we get to self help? Am I missing something? As I stated, it would have to be put in writing for the union to agree with Med-Arb, and as long as everything is covered in writing then the company would not be able to seek self help, as well as the union would not be able to strike or seek self help as well.

 

[swamt]

My train of thought isn't off. You are confusing yourself with status quo and self help. In self help you have no contract. The company can impose its will on you. That's why they call it at will employee. They can lock you out, they can no longer recognize seniority, they can pay you what they want. They can impose anything they want on you. And most certainly can get rid of you and hire replacement workers. The contract is put in the trash.

That's funny, I am sure the law suits will be dealt with when we reach a T/ A the ones I am talking about are the AMFA vs SWA and SWA vs AMFA, the A.I.R. 21 lawsuits are between the company and the individuals, AMFA 11 will want to have their part resolved but I don't see why the membership should be held hostage by what these individuals decided to do on their own by the self help violations , to me the union should be held harmless because they decided to act on their own !

Let me add a little bit more to my statement. If we went to just arbitration, it would be impossible to get to self help. Arbitration would decide the contract, we don't get a vote, contract is set. With med/arb which the company is pushing, we vote on a t/a. If the t/a does not pass, back to mediation and still on the road to self help. That's why I say if the company wants med/arb so bad, sign an loa stating they will not hire replacement workers if this gets to self help. Now the playing field is level.

I'll have another;
Ok I think you and I are on the same page as far as the Med-Arb and what needs to be in writing.

Driver, The only reason I am not answering crowfoot, is because I already have about these Air 21 suits. You are correct that they are suits between the company and the individuals that filed them with the union's help to get it done right, the union still has to represent these guys, but it is solely up to the individuals on rather the suits can be retracted or not. It has nothing to do with the membership agreeing to pull them. It has nothing to do with the union agreeing to pull them (as the union could be sued for FTR) it is totally up to the individual that filed it as it all happened to these individuals not us, the union or the company. Like I told him several times already, and he just keeps posting the elephant in the room, he needs to contact the ALR handling each of the Air 21's to find out where they are and where they stand and where they are going. No one knows anything about them but the attorney's, the individual's, the union, and the company and their attorneys. No one, I repeat, No One can do anything about the Air 21's except for the individuals involved, which is not us as members in a vote, no way no how.

 

[I'll have another]

Many of us can file air21 whistleblower complaints. Have you all watched Seham's video? Google Seham air21. It's about 15 minutes. He's fixing to make a bundle.

 

[Go Figure]

There are other lawsuits in the works filed besides the AIR 21 suits. Both the union and the company filed Federal Suits over the negotiations. Those are the "Big White Elephant" in the room. Per swamt those lawsuits don't mean anything with CBA conclusion??????? Ok.