WN Mechanics seek mediation

[I'll have another]

On a serious note, no wonder our AMFA locals have no money, I really don't see this different from what we complained about with the Teamsters, I think this should answer your question on why there wouldn't be a strike vote, and why we don't have any power. In reality we spend most of our money on legal fees, so we are basically at whatever the company wants to present when they decide they want to come to a T/ A, and if it gets into next year, or beyond it will pass because people will be totally disgusted by then!

We have a relatively new director and I know the officers have good intentions. But are the strategies going forward to solve this contract negotiations correct. That's why I brought up a strike authorization vote. It should put a blow torch up every members "tailpipe"(that made me laugh crowsfoot) to realize how serious this is. If we end up having to swallow a dirty Sammy, there's gonna be hell to pay. AMFA must know this. This isn' the church of AMFA. They are a for profit organization. The LM-2 shows this.

 

[B737 driver]

We have a relatively new director and I know the officers have good intentions. But are the strategies going forward to solve this contract negotiations correct. That's why I brought up a strike authorization vote. It should put a blow torch up every members "tailpipe"(that made me laugh crowsfoot) to realize how serious this is. If we end up having to swallow a dirty Sammy, there's gonna be hell to pay. AMFA must know this. This isn' the church of AMFA. They are a for profit organization. The LM-2 shows this.

I always said they were a business, I just hope the national director knows what he is getting into, and it is serious, we need to get our stuff done and in order, before AMFA worries about trying to organize another airline. We will see how this next negotiations goes, if we can get close to what we as a group can all live with, within the next 3 months, then maybe we can persue the med/ arb if it is fair to us to get a T/ A !

 

[I'll have another]

I always said they were a business, I just hope the national director knows what he is getting into, and it is serious, we need to get our stuff done and in order, before AMFA worries about trying to organize another airline. We will see how this next negotiations goes, if we can get close to what we as a group can all live with, within the next 3 months, then maybe we can persue the med/ arb if it is fair to us to get a T/ A !

Med/Arb is not the normal process per the RLA. The only way I would consider Med/Arb would be if the company signs a letter of agreement forbidding them from hiring replacement workers if the t/a fails, mediation continues, impasse,etc... to self help. Then it would be game on for me, let's have a Med/Arb.

 

[swamt]

Most of us wanted the Airtran guys stapled to the bottom, AMFA used the company to put the fear of God in them, the ones Airtran if you talk to them said the AMFA area rep and he is still a rep won't use his name, told them they need to take this deal, and they were lucky they weren't on the bottom of list unquote !

Sorry, but wrong again. I will not allow the lies. AMFA did not use the co. to put the fear of God in A/T. It was the company and the company alone that did that in their private meetings with A/T's cmte. (this is where the co. and A/T cmte would meet and discuss what was expected to occur). The co. were the ones in a big rush to get the seniority agreements done, AMFA had no reason to rush anything, the co. approached AMFA to speed things up and AMFA told the co. that they had no control to speed things up as the teamsters international was holding everything up. AMFA told the co. it was their side that was the hold up and that's when the co. had a meeting with them. After said meeting the A/T nego. cmte pressured the teamsters to bring it out. You are correct about one thing, they did have a choice it was tke the 4 year deal or go to the bottom of the list and I think the co. did tell them that that is what we all originally wanted so they wanted to vote on what they had. Just wanted to clear that up, it was not AMFA that put or even requested that the co. put the fear of God in them. AMFA simply told the co. that the resistance was from their side and above the nego cmte's heads with the teamsters. The teamsters were so butt hurt from being fired they wanted to do anything to beat down on AMFA and they were once again sent with their tails between their legs. And that's when the teamsters attorney just lost it in front of everyone including the company. It was really embarrassing for the A/T guys at the table.

 

[swamt]

I'm right. When a air train mech goes ahead of a SWA mech it is a loss of seniority. More than half lost seniority on this a/t deal even with a four year bump. How it went down doesn't matter. That's why 86% of the a/c mechs voted it in plus a huge pay raise. That means you could have got them for a six year bump and it probably would have still passed of course by a smaller percentage. AMFA screwed the pooch on this one. For myself I never liked the idea of mechanics negotiating. I would rather have ruthless al Capone types doing my bargaining for me. Backdoor deals made I could careless as long as we benefit. Backdoor deals are made all the time at the highest levels of government and business. Look at the present contract, basically a teamster negotiated deal. Most would vote it in again if the pay was adjusted. I hear it all the time that we should have kept the teamsters. Swamt - your good with numbers and history. We pay Seham @ $20,000 per negotiation session, a couple times over $40,000. Are they over charging for what we're getting? Ref: 2016 LM-2 annual report. Gosh one time on 4/26/2016 we paid The Dallas Morning News a payout of $31,941. Who's brainstorm was that? Talk about a suitcase full of money. Oh here's one, Hilton New Orleans for $25,890 paid on 6/30/2016. There's a lot more...

That is a fact but they won't pay attention to you, the super AMFA supporters will never admit our negotiating tactics may be flawed! On the Airtran guys all I know is they were afraid they wouldn't have a job! You are right back door deals are done all the time in business if you don't play ball you are not in business very long, AMFA will realize they will need to deal the excuses will start to run thin the longer this goes on, and they can say all these guys are patient but human nature will take it's course !

Silence from the ra ra peanut gallary how you think AMFA is being so accountable with our hard earned dues money !

From what I looked up it is a financial consultant group based in Washington D. C., wonder what that was about, maybe Wn, or Swamt can enlighten us, they seem to have the pulse of everything!

On a serious note, no wonder our AMFA locals have no money, I really don't see this different from what we complained about with the Teamsters, I think this should answer your question on why there wouldn't be a strike vote, and why we don't have any power. In reality we spend most of our money on legal fees, so we are basically at whatever the company wants to present when they decide they want to come to a T/ A, and if it gets into next year, or beyond it will pass because people will be totally disgusted by then!

Don't take offence but by your postings you two need to attend our monthly meetings where each and every single one of your questions of what was this spent on? Is addressed. I know of why and who is getting paid each and every month. Also, if you guys would attend any monthly meetings you would know that our sec. always states if you want to personally go over any and all transactions to feel free to contact him and set an appointment and he will let you see the books, why don't you two take the step? Call the Local Sec. and set an appointment, the books and ALL the numbers are there for you to see. Again if you guys attended meetings you would know what the money was spent for to the financial group in DC. That has been and still is (I believe) an ongoing charges to help with economics reasoning while nego a contract.
Driver you are once again wrong. AMFA's locals are not broke. Even after all the monies that have been and are being spent during these extensive section 6 nego's there are still plenty of money in the accounts. Now when we were teamsters local 19 was a negative 15K for 3 months in a row, and they were never positive anytime I attended the meetings. AMFA is well over a million and some change after all bills paid, contract cost paid, terminations fees paid, and that's after spending the monies you guys listed above.
Even sendmeupacrowsfoot caught on to what you two are doing. It won't work so you guys can take the money and run.

 

[swamt]

BTW: Don't be so convinced that this Med-Arb option is really in our favor. After all it's the co. trying to get into it, it's the co. offering the names to choose from, and it's now the co. wanting to try and get something done all of a sudden. You too should be asking yourself, "why is it all of a sudden the company is in a hurry to get this done?" Where was their anxiousness for the last 6 years? And just because they are in a hurry should be telling you that we maybe in a good spot now...

 

[B737 driver]

Don't take offence but by your postings you two need to attend our monthly meetings where each and every single one of your questions of what was this spent on? Is addressed. I know of why and who is getting paid each and every month. Also, if you guys would attend any monthly meetings you would know that our sec. always states if you want to personally go over any and all transactions to feel free to contact him and set an appointment and he will let you see the books, why don't you two take the step? Call the Local Sec. and set an appointment, the books and ALL the numbers are there for you to see. Again if you guys attended meetings you would know what the money was spent for to the financial group in DC. That has been and still is (I believe) an ongoing charges to help with economics reasoning while nego a contract.
Driver you are once again wrong. AMFA's locals are not broke. Even after all the monies that have been and are being spent during these extensive section 6 nego's there are still plenty of money in the accounts. Now when we were teamsters local 19 was a negative 15K for 3 months in a row, and they were never positive anytime I attended the meetings. AMFA is well over a million and some change after all bills paid, contract cost paid, terminations fees paid, and that's after spending the monies you guys listed above.
Even sendmeupacrowsfoot caught on to what you two are doing. It won't work so you guys can take the money and run.

Take the money and run, what money there are maybe a total of 10 people that post on this forum, I don't know how many people read it, we need to shop for another law firm, you go to the meetings and it's the same thing for the last 5 years we are working on it, the company won't move on this. There is no money to take and run, there is no T/A, and God knows when there will be one! If we get our back pay it won't make up for probably over $140,000 we have lost in overtime, profit sharing, 401k match, that is time we will never get back in our lifetime! You keep saying we want to take the money there is no money! The committee will not sign off on anything to look at, when you start making senior mechanics not caring anymore you have lost the war !

 

[I'll have another]

BTW: Don't be so convinced that this Med-Arb option is really in our favor. After all it's the co. trying to get into it, it's the co. offering the names to choose from, and it's now the co. wanting to try and get something done all of a sudden. You too should be asking yourself, "why is it all of a sudden the company is in a hurry to get this done?" Where was their anxiousness for the last 6 years? And just because they are in a hurry should be telling you that we maybe in a good spot now...

Nobody is saying med/arb is in are favor. If the company signs an loa to not hire replacements then the playing field becomes even.

 

[B737 driver]

Don't take offence but by your postings you two need to attend our monthly meetings where each and every single one of your questions of what was this spent on? Is addressed. I know of why and who is getting paid each and every month. Also, if you guys would attend any monthly meetings you would know that our sec. always states if you want to personally go over any and all transactions to feel free to contact him and set an appointment and he will let you see the books, why don't you two take the step? Call the Local Sec. and set an appointment, the books and ALL the numbers are there for you to see. Again if you guys attended meetings you would know what the money was spent for to the financial group in DC. That has been and still is (I believe) an ongoing charges to help with economics reasoning while nego a contract.
Driver you are once again wrong. AMFA's locals are not broke. Even after all the monies that have been and are being spent during these extensive section 6 nego's there are still plenty of money in the accounts. Now when we were teamsters local 19 was a negative 15K for 3 months in a row, and they were never positive anytime I attended the meetings. AMFA is well over a million and some change after all bills paid, contract cost paid, terminations fees paid, and that's after spending the monies you guys listed above.
Even sendmeupacrowsfoot caught on to what you two are doing. It won't work so you guys can take the money and run.

Also when your meeting are by t.v. Feed it is a little hard to see any books, plus if you can't make the first meeting you can not bring up any business!

 

[B737 driver]

BTW: Don't be so convinced that this Med-Arb option is really in our favor. After all it's the co. trying to get into it, it's the co. offering the names to choose from, and it's now the co. wanting to try and get something done all of a sudden. You too should be asking yourself, "why is it all of a sudden the company is in a hurry to get this done?" Where was their anxiousness for the last 6 years? And just because they are in a hurry should be telling you that we maybe in a good spot now...

We haven't been in a good spot in 5 years, what puts us in one now?

 

[swamt]

Take the money and run, what money there are maybe a total of 10 people that post on this forum, I don't know how many people read it, we need to shop for another law firm, you go to the meetings and it's the same thing for the last 5 years we are working on it, the company won't move on this. There is no money to take and run, there is no T/A, and God knows when there will be one! If we get our back pay it won't make up for probably over $140,000 we have lost in overtime, profit sharing, 401k match, that is time we will never get back in our lifetime! You keep saying we want to take the money there is no money! The committee will not sign off on anything to look at, when you start making senior mechanics not caring anymore you have lost the war !

You just confirmed what I said before. Each member has a different amount owed to them as retro. It will be difficult to get all that number, but they did for the pilots didn't they? Even dead pilots, pilots that moved onto other companies, as well as x-pilots family. They can no longer say they cannot get us retro. The money is there driver, it's going to be in the form of a bonus as the company has already offered as they will not call it a bonus. It's not just you senior mechanics any more. The majority is between 10-20 years. Be careful you are starting to resemble an IGM poster.

Nobody is saying med/arb is in are favor. If the company signs an loa to not hire replacements then the playing field becomes even.

I read another one of your postings and I think your train of thought is a little off. If we do go with Med-Arb the way I was told and the way the company has stated (which does need to be put in writing) is that the company will be binded to the final outcome and the NC would have to allow it to come out for a vote and the membership would still have the option of voting it in or down. If the membership voted it down the 2 sides would return to the table to work out the differences and come to a deal. There would not be any cooling down period or self help as there is with full blown Arbitration. Again this is what I am told, but I to agree that the binding for the co. and that we could still vote no as a membership would have to be in writing as well as we would return to the table to finalize it out. Besides, it's in our contract that we cannot strike and the co. cannot self help or replace workers.

Also when your meeting are by t.v. Feed it is a little hard to see any books, plus if you can't make the first meeting you can not bring up any business!

TV feed? You can E-mail your sec. he will come to you if he has to. At least try to set an appointment he is wide open to options.
Yes you can bring up business, it's called a motion and it would be voted on in the next meeting, just like if you were at the first meeting, you would make a motion and everyone would vote on it at next meeting, simple as that. There really is no excuse for not seeing the books. They are there to be viewed by any member in good standing you just need to make the effort. the sec. or the union will not reach out and spoon feed the membership. They made it very, very much easier for some to attend as it was just a minute down the road from work. But I do understand some people are very busy with kids and life in general and still is sometimes hard to get there. Anytime you need to get info from AMFA they are just a phone call, text, or e-mail away from all the answers you need. They are extremely easy to reach. Pls feel free to reach out to any of them including our ND, if he is busy he will call you back and/or respond to you personally. I would encourage you to do so to get the answers you seek from the union. Good luck.

 

[swamt]

We haven't been in a good spot in 5 years, what puts us in one now?

A couple of items helps us a bit. Record upon record profits (this actually helps our industry as a whole), and the maint that will come due on our new models of a/c coming within this 5 year contract, and on a third note, you will more than likely start seeing pressure being applied by the investors to get this out of the way, it has lingered for far too long. Another reason is our ceo made good on his promise to all the investors and the board of directors of a 5 year pay freeze while all along awarding them big time. Now is the time for us.

 

[B737 driver]

You just confirmed what I said before. Each member has a different amount owed to them as retro. It will be difficult to get all that number, but they did for the pilots didn't they? Even dead pilots, pilots that moved onto other companies, as well as x-pilots family. They can no longer say they cannot get us retro. The money is there driver, it's going to be in the form of a bonus as the company has already offered as they will not call it a bonus. It's not just you senior mechanics any more. The majority is between 10-20 years. Be careful you are starting to resemble an IGM poster.


I read another one of your postings and I think your train of thought is a little off. If we do go with Med-Arb the way I was told and the way the company has stated (which does need to be put in writing) is that the company will be binded to the final outcome and the NC would have to allow it to come out for a vote and the membership would still have the option of voting it in or down. If the membership voted it down the 2 sides would return to the table to work out the differences and come to a deal. There would not be any cooling down period or self help as there is with full blown Arbitration. Again this is what I am told, but I to agree that the binding for the co. and that we could still vote no as a membership would have to be in writing as well as we would return to the table to finalize it out. Besides, it's in our contract that we cannot strike and the co. cannot self help or replace workers.


TV feed? You can E-mail your sec. he will come to you if he has to. At least try to set an appointment he is wide open to options.
Yes you can bring up business, it's called a motion and it would be voted on in the next meeting, just like if you were at the first meeting, you would make a motion and everyone would vote on it at next meeting, simple as that. There really is no excuse for not seeing the books. They are there to be viewed by any member in good standing you just need to make the effort. the sec. or the union will not reach out and spoon feed the membership. They made it very, very much easier for some to attend as it was just a minute down the road from work. But I do understand some people are very busy with kids and life in general and still is sometimes hard to get there. Anytime you need to get info from AMFA they are just a phone call, text, or e-mail away from all the answers you need. They are extremely easy to reach. Pls feel free to reach out to any of them including our ND, if he is busy he will call you back and/or respond to you personally. I would encourage you to do so to get the answers you seek from the union. Good luck.

Thanks for the info, sorry for being grouchy, let me ask you a question we know where the company is, where do you think we went wrong, and what will be the sentiment if we are still here next year in the same situation ?

 

[Go Figure]

Thanks for the info, sorry for being grouchy, let me ask you a question we know where the company is, where do you think we went wrong, and what will be the sentiment if we are still here next year in the same situation ?

Sub lineal hint. There are Federal Lawsuits filed from both sides. swamt says they are not part of issue. Shows his knowledge on negotiations. I got an idea. Have Seham and his merry band of minions file another lawsuit! Per swamt that will not affect CBA negotiations. His group needs to bill some more hours this month!

 

[I'll have another]

You just confirmed what I said before. Each member has a different amount owed to them as retro. It will be difficult to get all that number, but they did for the pilots didn't they? Even dead pilots, pilots that moved onto other companies, as well as x-pilots family. They can no longer say they cannot get us retro. The money is there driver, it's going to be in the form of a bonus as the company has already offered as they will not call it a bonus. It's not just you senior mechanics any more. The majority is between 10-20 years. Be careful you are starting to resemble an IGM poster.


I read another one of your postings and I think your train of thought is a little off. If we do go with Med-Arb the way I was told and the way the company has stated (which does need to be put in writing) is that the company will be binded to the final outcome and the NC would have to allow it to come out for a vote and the membership would still have the option of voting it in or down. If the membership voted it down the 2 sides would return to the table to work out the differences and come to a deal. There would not be any cooling down period or self help as there is with full blown Arbitration. Again this is what I am told, but I to agree that the binding for the co. and that we could still vote no as a membership would have to be in writing as well as we would return to the table to finalize it out. Besides, it's in our contract that we cannot strike and the co. cannot self help or replace workers.


TV feed? You can E-mail your sec. he will come to you if he has to. At least try to set an appointment he is wide open to options.
Yes you can bring up business, it's called a motion and it would be voted on in the next meeting, just like if you were at the first meeting, you would make a motion and everyone would vote on it at next meeting, simple as that. There really is no excuse for not seeing the books. They are there to be viewed by any member in good standing you just need to make the effort. the sec. or the union will not reach out and spoon feed the membership. They made it very, very much easier for some to attend as it was just a minute down the road from work. But I do understand some people are very busy with kids and life in general and still is sometimes hard to get there. Anytime you need to get info from AMFA they are just a phone call, text, or e-mail away from all the answers you need. They are extremely easy to reach. Pls feel free to reach out to any of them including our ND, if he is busy he will call you back and/or respond to you personally. I would encourage you to do so to get the answers you seek from the union. Good luck.

My train of thought isn't off. You are confusing yourself with status quo and self help. In self help you have no contract. The company can impose its will on you. That's why they call it at will employee. They can lock you out, they can no longer recognize seniority, they can pay you what they want. They can impose anything they want on you. And most certainly can get rid of you and hire replacement workers. The contract is put in the trash.