WN Mechanics seek mediation

[B737 driver]

Man you hit the nail on the head here. When is the last time anyone of you have been called out by a Flight Att or Flt crew for a missing row number and called Duty Control to take that aircraft out of service for that. I'll tell you when, NEVER. They would Mel that crap and move the jet, for the Fn idiot that is putting that PR out for SW and filing a law suit is only to garner public support. That is not why SW aircraft are out of service. I still can't wrap my head around how they think they can get a judge to tell me, that because I'm told or I find a row number missing, (it is a defect), that I better not write it up because it's not a Safety of Flight issue. The FAA will have a hay day with that. Basically put on your blinders and don't look at anything not deemed major, is what they are trying to say? Wow, just wow.

My second part of this is, I think the March negotiations are going to be very important, if the company does not have some high power going to that meeting, as in people that can make decisions without having to go back to Daddy to ask for approval, that is going to show if they are truly motivated on getting a deal done or if they are intent on sinking SWA and destroying AMFA and all it's mechanics.

They wouldn't destroy SWA just AMFA, they could bankrupt AMFA with the lawsuits, where in desperation not to lose our jobs, kick them out, and bring someone in to replace them. If SWA chose that route. If you piss them off enough. They just might do that!

 

[sendmeupacrowsfoot]

They wouldn't destroy SWA just AMFA, they could bankrupt AMFA with the lawsuits, where in desperation not to lose our jobs, kick them out, and bring someone in to replace them. If SWA chose that route. If you piss them off enough. They just might do that!

You can only dream of that outcome.

 

[B737 driver]

You can only dream of that outcome.

Never say Never, foot . Remember when we started all this AMFA told us 3 years in 2012. We are more than double that. You guys said they didn't have anything to sue us on. Company sued AMFA right after they got ETOPS. You tell me if you were faced losing your job, because of AMFA or never getting a contract, because AMFA, had no money you wouldn't kick them to the curb? If you say no I call B.S. If SWA really wants them gone and have us abandon them, it wouldn't be hard. Maybe they won't.

 

[B737 driver]

I am referring to the contract that you said to vote for without reading yet.
SWA hates all the unions now. That's a no brainer.
And trust me everyone is woke up. The problem we talk about at work is IF there is decent offer coming with good changes as we are being told by the new guy (forgive me but his name is escaping me) and our NC refuses to bring it out there will be a problem. This is where I keep posting that both sides need to keep the personalization out of it and come to an agreement and ALLOW the membership to have a say in it if it comes out for a vote. This is what the co wants, the mechanics to have another vote according to Kelly and this new guy coming in, so maybe we will get something to vote on.
People are frustrated, people are exhausted, and people are sick and tired of how long this has dragged out. It is really sad when all the mechanics that came from other airlines are second guessing their decisions to coming here. They are saying they are seeing the exact same management here now that they did at their old airline.
For God's sake, just get it done so we can move forward. And I am talking to BOTH sides. Take two to nego...

Actually they don't hate all their unions just AMFA, Sim Techs negotiated contract early , ratified , Teamsters. Stores 3 T/As Teamsters. Pilots SWAPA, two T/As ratified second with big improvements. F/As TWU two T/As, did two year deal. Gate Agents first T/As successfully ratified IAM, opened negotiations early last year.Dispatchers TWU, Flight Instructor TWU ratified in 2016.Meteorologists TWU , ratified in 2015. Ramp TWU successfully ratified first contract. Do you see a pattern here?

 

[swamt]

Never say Never, foot . Remember when we started all this AMFA told us 3 years in 2012. We are more than double that. You guys said they didn't have anything to sue us on. Company sued AMFA right after they got ETOPS. You tell me if you were faced losing your job, because of AMFA or never getting a contract, because AMFA, had no money you wouldn't kick them to the curb? If you say no I call B.S. If SWA really wants them gone and have us abandon them, it wouldn't be hard. Maybe they won't.

The 3 years was a guesstimation PRIOR to SWA announcing that they needed the 5 year pay freeze to wait for all the other airlines catch up. The very same 3 years was given to other airlines in nego's now as well, and they too are over that also. You can stop beating that dead horse, the entire environment changed when the co called for the 5 year freeze as well as all the ridiculous demands they first were asking for. They knew this contract was going nowhere for about 6 years at the very beginning in 2012.
driver, C'mon. They can, as can AMFA, can sue for any reason they want to. They will have to prove this was a job action and NOT legit safety write-ups. The ones that grounded the a/c NOT the ones that always get MEL's or fixed prior to next day of flights. The suit is just a chess move by the company to scare some. IF they even think they will win that suit, then why is it that NONE of the 100 mechanics that they CLAIM are all the cause of these huge number of a/c out of service for bogus write-ups, haven't been wrote up? Disciplined? Suspended? Or even terminated? If they could prove it, they would have taken action.

BTW Here's the unions answer to the suit filed. You watch guys, if the March meetings bring a possible T/A out again it will have the typical language to drop all lawsuits if it were to get voted in, you watch. So that suit really holds no weight driver, see what I mean? They will also say all greiv. will be thrown in the trash, which I do not agree with either...

Memo: Southwest Airlines Files Suit Against AMFA
March 3, 2019 -- On Thursday, February, 28, 2019, Southwest Airlines filed yet another federal lawsuit against AMFA, as well as your elected negotiating representatives individually. This is but one more step in a long-standing campaign aimed at your Union and at you and the very job that you do. his lawsuit comes on the heels of the Company’s self-styled “State of Operational Emergency” at several maintenance locations where it believes too many discrepancies were being generated and resulted in aircraft not being pushed back into service fast enough.
Read More

 

[737MAX7]

Word on the street is LN had a conference call with sups and said the company would withhold more money and try to get us to take a deal.
Not a threat, not bs, not meant to piss off anyone. Just what was heard.
Take it for what it's worth and keep it in the back of your mind.

 

[B737 driver]

The 3 years was a guesstimation PRIOR to SWA announcing that they needed the 5 year pay freeze to wait for all the other airlines catch up. The very same 3 years was given to other airlines in nego's now as well, and they too are over that also. You can stop beating that dead horse, the entire environment changed when the co called for the 5 year freeze as well as all the ridiculous demands they first were asking for. They knew this contract was going nowhere for about 6 years at the very beginning in 2012.
driver, C'mon. They can, as can AMFA, can sue for any reason they want to. They will have to prove this was a job action and NOT legit safety write-ups. The ones that grounded the a/c NOT the ones that always get MEL's or fixed prior to next day of flights. The suit is just a chess move by the company to scare some. IF they even think they will win that suit, then why is it that NONE of the 100 mechanics that they CLAIM are all the cause of these huge number of a/c out of service for bogus write-ups, haven't been wrote up? Disciplined? Suspended? Or even terminated? If they could prove it, they would have taken action.

BTW Here's the unions answer to the suit filed. You watch guys, if the March meetings bring a possible T/A out again it will have the typical language to drop all lawsuits if it were to get voted in, you watch. So that suit really holds no weight driver, see what I mean? They will also say all greiv. will be thrown in the trash, which I do not agree with either...

Memo: Southwest Airlines Files Suit Against AMFA
March 3, 2019 -- On Thursday, February, 28, 2019, Southwest Airlines filed yet another federal lawsuit against AMFA, as well as your elected negotiating representatives individually. This is but one more step in a long-standing campaign aimed at your Union and at you and the very job that you do. his lawsuit comes on the heels of the Company’s self-styled “State of Operational Emergency” at several maintenance locations where it believes too many discrepancies were being generated and resulted in aircraft not being pushed back into service fast enough.
Read More

And you Mark my words, read what Brett, posted to see the demise of AMFA, its not to the other unions, because those unions have the numbers and money to stand . They are not going to piss the pilots or F/A off. They have their ETOPS. When I bring up Northwest, you are either to stubborn or to stupid to see that Northwest is Delta Airlines. My guys on my crew lived the AMFA Northwest fiasco. What will you personally do and your Dallas workers do if we say No to T/A #2, and they financially break our union. Will you continue to support a union, that can't seem to bring a contract , and move into year eight. Oh and here is something for you, when the strike at Northwest was over, all the upper AMFA officers that were Northwest employees got recalled to Delta magically with all their Seniority. The other AMFA members got screwed. Go ask them that question next time in your meetings.

 

[swamt]

Word on the street is LN had a conference call with sups and said the company would withhold more money and try to get us to take a deal.
Not a threat, not bs, not meant to piss off anyone. Just what was heard.
Take it for what it's worth and keep it in the back of your mind.

then that would indicate that they do not want a deal, would it not?
Or did I read your post wrong?

 

[B737 driver]

then that would indicate that they do not want a deal, would it not?
Or did I read your post wrong?

Oh both the union and the company want a deal . This is a new regime we are dealing with, unlike when I started 25 years ago. The company always has plan B. If we are smart and we take the deal whatever it is, which I am sure AMFA won't put it out if unless they think it won't pass, because it depends on their very survival as a union. Or they could be stupid, shoot down a good deal, and company says o.k. , plan B. Bankrupting the union, and drive them off the property.

 

[737MAX7]

then that would indicate that they do not want a deal, would it not?
Or did I read your post wrong?

Ask around the hangar. You will hear it for yourself.

 

[737MAX7]

Speaking of the new guy, I've also heard good things about him and he was good for AK, now could be a time for him to shine as someone said, hero or zero. That's a lot of pressure to put on someone new walking in but if he pulled it off, could we give the Northwest guy (you know who) a damned parachute packed by a Jiffy Lube mechanic, and shove him out the door. Please!

Possibly a good cop bad cop situation? Hope i'm wrong.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

These idiots better wake up, why do you think SWA hired ex Northwest management? They think it can't happen to them. That's just what the AMFA represented mechanics thought at Northwest. When they kicked out the IAM.

I have not been on this site in a long time. I've been a member here since 2005. In fact, I think I joined the first day of our strike on NWA. I see a lot of revisionist history with what happened to us back then.

I know exactly what happened. Now that many years have past, I am able to coherently see the mistakes made by AMFA leadership. I still say the main reason for our membership being so willing to strike, was that so many of our members had zero debt at the time. We were so short staffed for a few years leading up to the strike. Everybody was working 12 - 16 hour days, many 7 days a week (double time on 2nd RDO and after 12 hours). Everyone was willing to go out for a month or so with no financial penalty. With my seniority, I was at a small warm wx station working a 4/10 day shift with S/M/T RDO's. My manager was a 40-year lifer. He warned us all that if we went out, we not be coming back (he was a very honest & decent guy). He had been in meetings with senior NWA management, preparing for over a year to replace us. That plan was put into action when OV surprised NWA by calling the strike.

There were a few bumps for the airline right after the strike, but they killed us. When the F/A's and Pilots didn't back us, I knew we were done. Personally, in the year leading up to the strike, I returned to college to finish by bachelors degree. That was the best thing I ever did. Without that degree, I would be lower seniority guy at another airline, much like the broken guys from Eastern that I worked with at NWA. Many of those guys went out on strike with us. After the strike, I was very fortunate to land a great job. I am now making much more than I would ever make as a lead mechanic (or other position) at any airline.

My advice to the SWA mechanics: don't think it cannot happen to you. You are a much smaller group than us at NWA at the time. I know unemployment is low, but you can/will be replaced. Many tough guys who you think will not cross the picket line, will stab you in the back. Instead of work actions from within (we played that game with limited success), convince your leadership to do chaos. It is legal and the F/A's effectively used it in the past.

If I do not respond, yes it is because I am ignoring you. I have no intent on re-litigating our NWA/AMFA strike more than I just did here.

Good luck to the SWA folks.

 

[Birdman]

Believe me, many of us who have been watching this industry for 25+ years are well aware of how things went down at NW and know WN would go for the jugular like a rabid vampire. Strike is no longer an option and it appears just doing your job and being compliant has become a nightmare for an airline that has gotten away with intimidating its mechanics into pushing aircraft. What they fail to comprehend is taking away day trades, overtime, vacations, and eo's has driven morale from dismal into the abyss. I have never, in my 29 years in this industry, seen so much anger and hatred towards maintenance upper management as I've seen in the last 2 weeks. Cooler heads must prevail for this issue to get resolved.

 

[B737 driver]

Believe me, many of us who have been watching this industry for 25+ years are well aware of how things went down at NW and know WN would go for the jugular like a rabid vampire. Strike is no longer an option and it appears just doing your job and being compliant has become a nightmare for an airline that has gotten away with intimidating its mechanics into pushing aircraft. What they fail to comprehend is taking away day trades, overtime, vacations, and eo's has driven morale from dismal into the abyss. I have never, in my 29 years in this industry, seen so much anger and hatred towards maintenance upper management as I've seen in the last 2 weeks. Cooler heads must prevail for this issue to get resolved.

I personally think before the unthinkable AMFA nuclear lead option, because we know the new SWA, would destroy us birdman. If we don't get a deal this time kick Seham and AMFA to the curb, bring the Teamsters back, and if takes a year, so be it. Better than destroying our 25+ careers for a stupid Law firm, that will bleed us dry.

 

[swamt]

I have not been on this site in a long time. I've been a member here since 2005. In fact, I think I joined the first day of our strike on NWA. I see a lot of revisionist history with what happened to us back then.

I know exactly what happened. Now that many years have past, I am able to coherently see the mistakes made by AMFA leadership. I still say the main reason for our membership being so willing to strike, was that so many of our members had zero debt at the time. We were so short staffed for a few years leading up to the strike. Everybody was working 12 - 16 hour days, many 7 days a week (double time on 2nd RDO and after 12 hours). Everyone was willing to go out for a month or so with no financial penalty. With my seniority, I was at a small warm wx station working a 4/10 day shift with S/M/T RDO's. My manager was a 40-year lifer. He warned us all that if we went out, we not be coming back (he was a very honest & decent guy). He had been in meetings with senior NWA management, preparing for over a year to replace us. That plan was put into action when OV surprised NWA by calling the strike.

There were a few bumps for the airline right after the strike, but they killed us. When the F/A's and Pilots didn't back us, I knew we were done. Personally, in the year leading up to the strike, I returned to college to finish by bachelors degree. That was the best thing I ever did. Without that degree, I would be lower seniority guy at another airline, much like the broken guys from Eastern that I worked with at NWA. Many of those guys went out on strike with us. After the strike, I was very fortunate to land a great job. I am now making much more than I would ever make as a lead mechanic (or other position) at any airline.

My advice to the SWA mechanics: don't think it cannot happen to you. You are a much smaller group than us at NWA at the time. I know unemployment is low, but you can/will be replaced. Many tough guys who you think will not cross the picket line, will stab you in the back. Instead of work actions from within (we played that game with limited success), convince your leadership to do chaos. It is legal and the F/A's effectively used it in the past.

If I do not respond, yes it is because I am ignoring you. I have no intent on re-litigating our NWA/AMFA strike more than I just did here.

Good luck to the SWA folks.

Good to hear from you Glenn. It has been a while.
Thanx so much for the good wishes. Hopefully this new guy from ALK will come in and get something back out for a vote.
Like Bird already said, strike is not an option, and I don't think they would release us anyways.
Both sides need to put all past issues behind them, get the personalizations away and off the table, put the big boy pants on and get back to professionalized negotiations. Think about the co. and the employees as a whole.
If the co., or the union tries any more games or goes backwards, it will not end good.
I think this new guy, with his cooler head, can get it done.
Here is to the hopes that he becomes a hero and not a zero...