WN Mechanics seek mediation

[swamt]

CountUP clock alive and well on the AMFA11 site right below the "Thanks for everything, Herb" memorial.
http://amfa11.com/wp/

No body in our industry has the corner market on quick negotiation timelines. Our pilots and flight attendants set a precedent with their last round of
negotiations that management refuses to follow with ours. There is no question who will fly and sky waitress our metal but there is industry wide fluctuation who maintains them. Rumor has it that Dallas heavy maintenance will perform more 12Y checks because other airlines outbid us for those MRO slots. That has perhaps caused alarm in Kelly's financial team to look for ways to keep maintenance costs in check by outsourcing to foreign MRO's and conning mechanics into believing if you didn't like the AIP/TA you rejected you sure won't like the one we're offering now.
As I reflect on the post-2003 years of turmoil at AA I can only chuckle at the words of a fellow mechanic who always proclaimed "I have two speeds, if you don't like the first one you sure won't like the second".

Was it even taken down? I don't know as I do not look at it or follow it. To me it has the same feeling as watching the clock while waiting to punch out, the longest time of the day, so I just don't pay any attention to it.
Yea the time frame is just ridiculous for us. But hey, the co. sure got their 5 year pay freeze. They did not start nego in good faith until after the 5th year was past. So now that they are actually nego and maybe not stalling like in the past, I still see at least 2 years if not 3 for their average time frame they have done in the past. Don't get me wrong here Birdman, I would love to see an agreement ASAP this year, but I don't expect it as they co. just stalled out nego's yet again by dragging international outsourcing back to the table.
The other asks are not impossible to nego around, but international is a no go for me, always has been and always will be, keep the work in America...

 

[WeAAsles]

Yea the time frame is just ridiculous. I still see at least 2 years if not 3 for their average time frame they have done in the past.

And this is what you want for AA Mechanics? AA Mechanics don’t want this nonsense.

 

[swamt]

And this is what you want for AA Mechanics? AA Mechanics don’t want this nonsense.

View attachment 13808

Don't want it for anyone.
That's cost to trying to save scope instead of just agreeing to give it all away...

 

[sendmeupacrowsfoot]

Regardless of what is going on with our contract negotiations, we need to strive everyday to be 100% compliant, and keep this airline safe.

 

[WeAAsles]

Don't want it for anyone.
That's cost to trying to save scope instead of just agreeing to give it all away...

And you saved your Scope but then voted no anyway.

So now it’s more about money than Scope.

It’s always ultimately about money to people. They just don’t like to admit it.

 

[B737 driver]

And you saved your Scope but then voted no anyway.

So now it’s more about money than Scope.

It’s always ultimately about money to people. They just don’t like to admit it.

The company gave AMFA a choice a little less money keep scope. AMFA and Swampy talked about scope. Then it became money AMFA update 71 ,read it, if you want scope we want $158 million in backpay, interesting isn't it. So back and forth we go.

 

[swamt]

And you saved your Scope but then voted no anyway.

So now it’s more about money than Scope.

It’s always ultimately about money to people. They just don’t like to admit it.

Actually scope and pay were weighed out about the same. As has been mentioned at several monthly meetings these two items were top of list.
Once the scope issues were originally agreed to then the focus was put on getting the retro, snap up and outgoing raises aligned correctly with the now going on 7 years of a pay freeze.
If you actually look at AMFA #'s, they are not being unreasonable or greedy at all, it all basically winds up being what SWA has always dine with the past raises. The only difference I see from past agreements is the added .25% asked for each of the outgoing years. And to me that's nothing while SWA is reaping the rewards of record upon record Q profits as well as the last 2 years of reaping the benefits of the Tax Reform saving billions and hundreds of millions for the last couple years. So not a ridiculous ask and no way is it out of line.
Weez, if you go back and look at my post I always have put scope ahead of $$$. They can pay you all the $$ in the world, but that isn't worth a penny if there's no work coming in in order to earn that hourly $$.

Southwest Airlines rift with mechanics worsens as contract talks drag on

 

[B737 driver]

Actually scope and pay were weighed out about the same. As has been mentioned at several monthly meetings these two items were top of list.
Once the scope issues were originally agreed to then the focus was put on getting the retro, snap up and outgoing raises aligned correctly with the now going on 7 years of a pay freeze.
If you actually look at AMFA #'s, they are not being unreasonable or greedy at all, it all basically winds up being what SWA has always dine with the past raises. The only difference I see from past agreements is the added .25% asked for each of the outgoing years. And to me that's nothing while SWA is reaping the rewards of record upon record Q profits as well as the last 2 years of reaping the benefits of the Tax Reform saving billions and hundreds of millions for the last couple years. So not a ridiculous ask and no way is it out of line.
Weez, if you go back and look at my post I always have put scope ahead of $$$. They can pay you all the $$ in the world, but that isn't worth a penny if there's no work coming in in order to earn that hourly $$.

Southwest Airlines rift with mechanics worsens as contract talks drag on

So basically Swampy they gave what they thought was a fair offer to maintain our scope. AMFA knew this and B.S. all you guys into voting No. SWA respects the pilots, dispatchers, F/A rampers, stores personal, and sim techs, but doesn't fear the mechanics, why is that ?Because they know we don't hold anything, or you would settle quickly. When our original negotiating committee started this they told us three years, in 2012. So now Bret and AMFA have to keep telling the same crap. Face it, we are outgunned, and if they keep telling the guys we can get all this stuff, we will never get a contract, the other Unions at SWA understand that, ours does not. I really question AMFA long term viability the longer this drags on.

 

[swamt]

So basically Swampy they gave what they thought was a fair offer to maintain our scope. AMFA knew this and B.S. all you guys into voting No. SWA respects the pilots, dispatchers, F/A rampers, stores personal, and sim techs, but doesn't fear the mechanics, why is that ?Because they know we don't hold anything, or you would settle quickly. When our original negotiating committee started this they told us three years, in 2012. So now Bret and AMFA have to keep telling the same crap. Face it, we are outgunned, and if they keep telling the guys we can get all this stuff, we will never get a contract, the other Unions at SWA understand that, ours does not. I really question AMFA long term viability the longer this drags on.

Disagree completely. NOBODY B.S.'ed me or others into a no vote. I voted no because I did not agree with the offer the company made and neither did 3/4's of the membership.
Why are you so hell bent on settling quickly? That is exactly what the company wants, to get us as low cost as possible, and as cheap as possible.
AMFA's 3 year guess in 2012 was before the NC was told that the company wanted a 5 year pay freeze. Since the 5 years, they thought this membership would jump all over their low ball offer due to the long dragged out delay's for the pay freeze. We are now going on 7 years and the company throws out the international outsourcing completely stopping any and all progress made up to that point. I will never agree to international outsourcing.
They are not outgunned. The co. thought we would be outgunned but they learned differently at the table.
When our economist was asked how did you come to those numbers and our economist explained how and why, the company understood instead of what the last NC did and got all loud and upset yelling across the table they took the information held meetings and came back with a counter and that is how nego's work. It has nothing to do with rather the company respects a group or not, it's business with any group while at the table.

 

[swamt]

Forgot to add:
The company will not get the international outsourcing without the protections as before. So them simply just throwing out there the idea of international without those protections is just causing longer delays. Glad to see our NC striking the ask for international.

 

[B737 driver]

Disagree completely. NOBODY B.S.'ed me or others into a no vote. I voted no because I did not agree with the offer the company made and neither did 3/4's of the membership.
Why are you so hell bent on settling quickly? That is exactly what the company wants, to get us as low cost as possible, and as cheap as possible.
AMFA's 3 year guess in 2012 was before the NC was told that the company wanted a 5 year pay freeze. Since the 5 years, they thought this membership would jump all over their low ball offer due to the long dragged out delay's for the pay freeze. We are now going on 7 years and the company throws out the international outsourcing completely stopping any and all progress made up to that point. I will never agree to international outsourcing.
They are not outgunned. The co. thought we would be outgunned but they learned differently at the table.
When our economist was asked how did you come to those numbers and our economist explained how and why, the company understood instead of what the last NC did and got all loud and upset yelling across the table they took the information held meetings and came back with a counter and that is how nego's work. It has nothing to do with rather the company respects a group or not, it's business with any group while at the table.

It was a snow job by AMFA and you know it. They lead guys that were on the fence at the roadshows if we voted no, the company had another offer waiting. You had chest thumpers on Facebook , screaming you never take the first offer, the vote no bracelets, the vote no cups. The leaked votes on Facebook. The refusal to release the offical votes to prove the outcome. If SWA respected the mechanics and AMFA they wouldn't start with non starter language changes. They know we can't stick together. Probably hoping we just keep spinning our wheels. That offer may have not been all the money we deserved, but my scope is worth more than money. To tell the truth after 7 years I have no faith in AMFA or SWA management, and start are coming to the fact that we will get what we can and that's it. SWA doesn't care they save money, and AMFA doesn't care, because they continue to get our dues.

 

[B737 driver]

Actually scope and pay were weighed out about the same. As has been mentioned at several monthly meetings these two items were top of list.
Once the scope issues were originally agreed to then the focus was put on getting the retro, snap up and outgoing raises aligned correctly with the now going on 7 years of a pay freeze.
If you actually look at AMFA #'s, they are not being unreasonable or greedy at all, it all basically winds up being what SWA has always dine with the past raises. The only difference I see from past agreements is the added .25% asked for each of the outgoing years. And to me that's nothing while SWA is reaping the rewards of record upon record Q profits as well as the last 2 years of reaping the benefits of the Tax Reform saving billions and hundreds of millions for the last couple years. So not a ridiculous ask and no way is it out of line.
Weez, if you go back and look at my post I always have put scope ahead of $$$. They can pay you all the $$ in the world, but that isn't worth a penny if there's no work coming in in order to earn that hourly $$.

Southwest Airlines rift with mechanics worsens as contract talks drag on

 

[B737 driver]

If you always put scope ahead of money, why wasn't less money worth your scope when you secured it, and AMFA preached it? It sucks when the truth comes out.

 

[B737 driver]

Look who’s ready to settle for less than we deserve again and tries to blame AMFA for his weak spine.

Don’t you play any other tune?

What weak spine whenever we finally settle if we settle , it will not make up for compounded earnings we have lost in profit sharing, lost 401k matches, lost overtime earnings, for 7 years or more of AMFA can't make a baby. And blame the company, and you guys believing their story. It's like the idiots getting large tax returns , they loaned the Government money without interest. Face it AMFA won't have to many successful card drives.

 

[swamt]

It was a snow job by AMFA and you know it. They lead guys that were on the fence at the roadshows if we voted no, the company had another offer waiting. You had chest thumpers on Facebook , screaming you never take the first offer, the vote no bracelets, the vote no cups. The leaked votes on Facebook. The refusal to release the offical votes to prove the outcome. If SWA respected the mechanics and AMFA they wouldn't start with non starter language changes. They know we can't stick together. Probably hoping we just keep spinning our wheels. That offer may have not been all the money we deserved, but my scope is worth more than money. To tell the truth after 7 years I have no faith in AMFA or SWA management, and start are coming to the fact that we will get what we can and that's it. SWA doesn't care they save money, and AMFA doesn't care, because they continue to get our dues.

Don't know where you get "They know we can't stick together."
A 97% turn out with 72% of the membership voting no, at the time of the leaked results by True Ballot, and the vote not even done yet says a whole lot of sticking together, united. This is why the company did bring another offer instead of just using the same numbers shook up and released like they did with other groups.

If you always put scope ahead of money, why wasn't less money worth your scope when you secured it, and AMFA preached it? It sucks when the truth comes out.

I have always said scope and full retro were my 2 number ones from the get go. They were weighed the very same by me.
You need to ask the guys that did have scope at number one for them. To me, the ones that were ok with the lower money for scope did vote for it at about a 20-25%, the rest were all no's by 75-80%.