WN Mechanics seek mediation

[B737 driver]

Just relax and reread some of your posts. I dont truly believe you are that nieve in this industry. I get it you despise AMFA. Ok I get it! You are again deliberately deceiving Lies and half truths, sounds like AMFA was proactive if the Southwest came out publically by VP of Maint and stated and forecast they were going to breech the CBA specially on an item this big dealing with on call providers in Hawaii. Forward thinking to not be seen-observed-optics-precieved-portrayed as obstructionists in the world of big business and RLA-NMB when ETOPS CBA language is violated and SWA would be dragged into court at whatever level. (Logical thinking, you are forced to go public before the action happens) SWA is asking for relief in Hawaii so that means they dont have authority to outsource their current work. You never ask for relief if you think you already have it. SO ETOPS HAS BEEN EXTENDED BY THE FAA OR THE COMPANY ON GETTING CERTIFIED 3 TIMES AND NOT SELLING TICKETS NOW? THERE IS MAJOR PROBLEMS WITH DOT -OIG GOVT, OSHA, FAA- Regulators AND multiple audits at SWA maintenance program. Not brain surgery, What does that tell you, may not be directly associated with TA but does not help getting certification on a safety sensitive issue. You are a very naive individual like weezer when dealing with business and being proactively setting up the stage for a grievance, arbitration or court battle. Just stay in your bubble, guys at SWA will be better off in the future.

I know how ETOPS program works, it's just as sensitive as an actual autoland program, alot more restrictive than our Cat3 Hud program. ETOPS you have specific parts, checks, certified personal mechanics, maint controllers. Certain systems have to work. We have problems with LOIs for guys screwing up paperwork. So an ETOPS program will be really fun. It is obvious from your postings as far as I know, you might be an AMFA officer, maybe you're just a mechanic outsider like you claim? But for an Outsider for just being an observer you seem to have alot of skin in this game. Perhaps you have to defend AMFA from their lack of results? Or perhaps make sure the No vote goes through so we can continue being the lowest paid mechanics for a major airline. Either way mission accomplished!

 

[B737 driver]

You would be bitching if AMFA have done nothing after SWA came out publically saying they were going to breech the contract, so either way you ***** and spread discontent, unfortunately for you...... check mate!

It's not a breach of contract, when you don't have the language, when AMFA finally has to admit they have no leverage nice try stupid. I thought you were done with me?

 

[swamt]

Dont know this cat, well written and sounds like AMFA was proactive if the Southwest came out publically and stated and forecast they were going to breech the CBA specially on an item this big dealing with on call providers in Hawaii. Forward thinking to not be seen as obstructionists when ETOPS CBA language is violated and SWA would be dragged into court at whatever level, SWA is asking for relief in Hawaii so that means they dont have authority to outsource their current work. You never ask for relief if you think you already have it. SO ETOPS HAS BEEN EXTENDED BY THE FAA OR THE COMPANY ON GETTING CERTIFIED 3 TIMES NOW? What does that tell you, may not be directly associated with TA but does not help getting certification on a safety sensitive issue. But you know nothing about that having qualifications or safety sensitive aircraft maintenance, because you dont have a dog in the fight rodent. You are a very naive individual when dealing with business and being proactively setting up the stage for a grievance, arbitration or court battle. Just stay in your fleet world, you will better off and so will all of us AMTs in this industry.

Yes Southwest would have violated the contract just like they did with Canada outsourcing, and 4th line. They do it time and time again only to stall it out thru-out the processes for years in courts if needed.
Blue is correct about AMFA never said we had leverage with ETOPS. In fact, the union guys actually said that the company will do whatever they want and worry about fighting it later. Although we don't really have any leverage with the ETOPS, I do know for fact that the FAA is watching these nego's to see if both sides will sign off on something agreeing to who will be performing the ETOPS before they give the final go ahead. Not saying it will hold anything up, just saying it will make the FAA's decision to grant ETOPS final to SWA with an agreement from both sides is all. No union will stop a company from expanding especially into Hawaii.
Yes, the co. is asking for relief, and yes, they would not waste their time asking for relief if they did not have to.
Yes ETOPS has been extended and the latest was just announced about a week ago that Oct. will not happen for Hawaii for flights but still might make ticket sales by Oct. Notice that this announcement came after the co. found out that the vote will not be tallied until mid Sep. so they kinda took Oct off the table for Hawaii flights.
One thing i do know for fact is, there is a huge training issue not being compliant with all our CBT's. SWA has been informed get compliant with CBT training or no ETOPS blessing. This why they have cracked down so hard on the foreman on getting their work groups compliant on CBT training, so they won't miss out on ETOPS cert.
Again, no real leverage with ETOPS, but it would be much easier to obtain ETOPS clearance if CBT's are current and an agreement from both sides on who will be performing ETOPS, maybe just call it an advantage not leverage.

 

[swamt]

Just relax and reread some of your posts. I dont truly believe you are that nieve in this industry. I get it you despise AMFA. Ok I get it! You are again deliberately deceiving Lies and half truths, sounds like AMFA was proactive if the Southwest came out publically by VP of Maint and stated and forecast they were going to breech the CBA specially on an item this big dealing with on call providers in Hawaii. Forward thinking to not be seen-observed-optics-precieved-portrayed as obstructionists in the world of big business and RLA-NMB when ETOPS CBA language is violated and SWA would be dragged into court at whatever level. (Logical thinking, you are forced to go public before the action happens) SWA is asking for relief in Hawaii so that means they dont have authority to outsource their current work. You never ask for relief if you think you already have it. SO ETOPS HAS BEEN EXTENDED BY THE FAA OR THE COMPANY ON GETTING CERTIFIED 3 TIMES AND NOT SELLING TICKETS NOW? THERE IS MAJOR PROBLEMS WITH DOT -OIG GOVT, OSHA, FAA- Regulators AND multiple audits at SWA maintenance program. Not brain surgery, What does that tell you, may not be directly associated with TA but does not help getting certification on a safety sensitive issue. You are a very naive individual like weezer when dealing with business and being proactively setting up the stage for a grievance, arbitration or court battle. Just stay in your bubble, guys at SWA will be better off in the future.

Well said sir. And yes all the "other" issues at hand with the multiple investigations, still going on, with FAA, DOT, AGI and others. Probably no blessing until all is worked out. So let's see how long SWA really wants to stall this contract out if it gets voted down.

 

[swamt]

I look forward to picking my Ballot up tomorrow from my mailbox and sending back a big NO vote. Carry on folks...

 

[WeAAsles]

It's not a breach of contract, when you don't have the language, when AMFA finally has to admit they have no leverage nice try stupid. I thought you were done with me?

Exactly. You are 100% correct.

Yes Southwest would have violated the contract just like they did with Canada outsourcing, and 4th line. They do it time and time again only to stall it out thru-out the processes for years in courts if needed.
Blue is correct about AMFA never said we had leverage with ETOPS. In fact, the union guys actually said that the company will do whatever they want and worry about fighting it later. Although we don't really have any leverage with the ETOPS, I do know for fact that the FAA is watching these nego's to see if both sides will sign off on something agreeing to who will be performing the ETOPS before they give the final go ahead. Not saying it will hold anything up, just saying it will make the FAA's decision to grant ETOPS final to SWA with an agreement from both sides is all. No union will stop a company from expanding especially into Hawaii.
Yes, the co. is asking for relief, and yes, they would not waste their time asking for relief if they did not have to.
Yes ETOPS has been extended and the latest was just announced about a week ago that Oct. will not happen for Hawaii for flights but still might make ticket sales by Oct. Notice that this announcement came after the co. found out that the vote will not be tallied until mid Sep. so they kinda took Oct off the table for Hawaii flights.
One thing i do know for fact is, there is a huge training issue not being compliant with all our CBT's. SWA has been informed get compliant with CBT training or no ETOPS blessing. This why they have cracked down so hard on the foreman on getting their work groups compliant on CBT training, so they won't miss out on ETOPS cert.
Again, no real leverage with ETOPS, but it would be much easier to obtain ETOPS clearance if CBT's are current and an agreement from both sides on who will be performing ETOPS, maybe just call it an advantage not leverage.

Fake news.

I look forward to picking my Ballot up tomorrow from my mailbox and sending back a big NO vote. Carry on folks...

 

[Fordwrench]

I look forward to picking my Ballot up tomorrow from my mailbox and sending back a big NO vote. Carry on folks...

Best 9f luck to all of you folks at SouthwestAirlines

 

[Fordwrench]

Exactly. You are 100% correct.



Fake news.



View attachment 13230

I find it very interesting you promote a yes vote when you continue to have no dog in the SWA fight? It took me very little time to figure you out, you are truly not a fleet service clerk or bag smasher at all, you are a catfish acting like the service clerk and really are an AMT trying to fight the fight against a non affiliated AFL-CIO or your personal agenda on these forums...not sure which? Even though the weasel name is fitting for you, You are truly a catfish not a weazel. WHY WOULD A CLERK BE SUGGESTING A VOTE YES FOR AN AIRLINE AND A WORKGROUP HE IS NOT AFFILIATED WITH? REALLY?

 

[Fordwrench]

I was at the road shows, where after months, they told everyone there was no leverage. I understand the younger guys want to make as much as they can. Usually when you negotiate a contract, both sides the union and the company figure out what is the biggest group you need to satisfy, and target that group. Then you have a successful negotiations. When most people were satisfied, then through the road shows, you poison the well so it doesn't pass. How well are serving the members, removing the chance of a successful contract. So what is the end game? I personally do not want to see the company wants this, and we just chase our tails. What you personally have to ask yourself, what is good enough for you. Just vote.

So you went to a meeting? Roadshow with your SWA negotiation committee on or off property? So you had the opportunity to stand up and voice you displease? Did you stand on the principles of how you like the offer by SWA to you Express your whole hearted "yes vote" for the offer publically?

Maybe this is good offer is good for you, you have the choice to soon vote. Your union must have done good enough for your yes vote or you are not willing to fight for yourself and allow other to fight harder for you because "you maybe tired" or "want to give-up want to roll over when times get tough" you have allowed the company to beat you down and win after creating the environment of 6years and emotional overload? You lose.... they win, hopefully not at your Expense. Ever thought about, not you of course, other co-workers wanting to stand up and fight if the offer is not acceptable. This is not new concept in the industry, maybe for you at the LUV and once precious airline, but not a new playbook in the real world- Bubba...you are playing right into the SWA Executives hands if the offer is not acceptable! Let your conscience be free!

Did you express or display your affection publically for your union Neg officers, union members or International officials? How about you standing strong publically and asking how you could contribute to your career and the other members on getting a better deal at these meetings and not just sheepishly badger everyone and everything on these forums. No just sit and -itch, expect everyone else to help fix the problems that occured and be the victim. Unbelievable! You are blinded by your deception of AMFA's (which is supposed to be you the members) past or whatever and you are vigilantly committed to taking away your own and others demise.

Maybe you truly believe this is a good deal, but if not You give in now to this company, you will forever be under suppression by rewarding of dragging this contract out in 6 years, contact after contract.

 

[Fordwrench]

It's not a breach of contract, when you don't have the language, when AMFA finally has to admit they have no leverage nice try stupid. I thought you were done with me?

If I figure out how to block you I would, lol nope had my time in the fight, stupid I am, I'm not that bright. Just watching, wishing we had anything other than this current joint Association. I just pay attention to websites, news and other aviation info. Not much on these blogs because of geniuses like you. This is still my career for a short time and want what is best. Blocking you sounds almost to easy. But I'm stupid. I really enjoy your thoughts and insight. I am learning a whole lot. Best of luck! Heck yeah skin in the game this is my career and what you get at SWA affect all of us.

 

[WeAAsles]

I find it very interesting you promote a yes vote when you continue to have no dog in the SWA fight? It took me very little time to figure you out, you are truly not a fleet service clerk or bag smasher at all, you are a catfish acting like the service clerk and really are an AMT trying to fight the fight against a non affiliated AFL-CIO or your personal agenda on these forums...not sure which? Even though the weasel name is fitting for you, You are truly a catfish not a weazel. WHY WOULD A CLERK BE SUGGESTING A VOTE YES FOR AN AIRLINE AND A WORKGROUP HE IS NOT AFFILIATED WITH? REALLY?

Ask an AMT at AA in MIA to come over to D1 and ask for Dave Weekday afternoons. I’ll even take a selfie with the guy if he wants with a big smile and thumbs up.

WHY WOULD A CLERK BE SUGGESTING A VOTE YES FOR AN AIRLINE AND A WORKGROUP HE IS NOT AFFILIATED WITH? REALLY?

ONLY absolutely ONLY because a Southwest Airlines AMT (swamt) sticks his nose in another Airline and another Unions business.

I only shadow what that guy does. (Annoying isn’t it)

 

[WeAAsles]

Maybe you truly believe this is a good deal,

Apparently driver either does thinks his TA is a good deal or that it’s acceptable to HIM.

But the little chihuahua bullies don’t seem to want to RESPECT his beliefs.

I always notice that the “Vote No” creeps are always the biggest loudmouths too.

 

[B737 driver]

So you went to a meeting? Roadshow with your SWA negotiation committee on or off property? So you had the opportunity to stand up and voice you displease? Did you stand on the principles of how you like the offer by SWA to you Express your whole hearted "yes vote" for the offer publically?

Maybe this is good offer is good for you, you have the choice to soon vote. Your union must have done good enough for your yes vote or you are not willing to fight for yourself and allow other to fight harder for you because "you maybe tired" or "want to give-up want to roll over when times get tough" you have allowed the company to beat you down and win after creating the environment of 6years and emotional overload? You lose.... they win, hopefully not at your Expense. Ever thought about, not you of course, other co-workers wanting to stand up and fight if the offer is not acceptable. This is not new concept in the industry, maybe for you at the LUV and once precious airline, but not a new playbook in the real world- Bubba...you are playing right into the SWA Executives hands if the offer is not acceptable! Let your conscience be free!

Did you express or display your affection publically for your union Neg officers, union members or International officials? How about you standing strong publically and asking how you could contribute to your career and the other members on getting a better deal at these meetings and not just sheepishly badger everyone and everything on these forums. No just sit and -itch, expect everyone else to help fix the problems that occured and be the victim. Unbelievable! You are blinded by your deception of AMFA's (which is supposed to be you the members) past or whatever and you are vigilantly committed to taking away your own and others demise.

Maybe you truly believe this is a good deal, but if not You give in now to this company, you will forever be under suppression by rewarding of dragging this contract out in 6 years, contact after contract.

When Morris Air was bought no seniority, started over. When SWA bought Airtran , those guys lost seniority. I saw what it felt like to get screwed by a union. When I was an union steward for the Teamsters , and voted to keep them, took all kinds of **** again. My very first job out of the Navy was Midway, went bankrupt, no paycheck. So I got on with Morris, then SWA bought them. So I have seen this very selfish group take and take , so this deal answered my concerns on scope. I have witnessed the deceptive practices of this Union from letting people think they have all this power and in reality they do not from the ETOPS to what the company will do. In my mind we have become ineffective. Yes I made my concerns known. What needs to happen if we vote this down. Then if the company follows through and people realize what they have lost. Only then will people realize they were sold a bad bill of goods. This is a old format so there are no algorithms, where you can control what people can say like our AMFA Facebook page.

 

[WNMECH]

So you claim to be upset that airtran lost 4 years seniority because of AMFA.

Yet you also claim you lost ALL of your seniority when you came from morris, but THAT was because of the company and the teamsters that you love so much, not AMFA.

But now you love the company offer and the IBT.

Give us break.

 

[B737 driver]

So you claim to be upset that airtran lost 4 years seniority because of AMFA.

Yet you also claim you lost ALL of your seniority when you came from morris, but THAT was because of the company and the teamsters that you love so much, not AMFA.

But now you love the company offer and the IBT.

Give us break.

Read my post everyone was treated as a new hire , there was no choice. Zero the group I am talking about are the same assholes hired but acquired mentality. The same mentality you guys had with the Airtran group, let's staple them. We had Teamsters at Midway, so I just folded into the union and made the best of it. SWA did more for me than Midway or Morris could have. You guys can vote it down. Pat yourselves on the back and then scream about it a year from now. And then I will say to you whiny cry babies, I don't want to hear it. Good luck.