Wisconsin

[southwind]

Based on what has happened to date I think Scott Walker has overplayed his hand. I live a few states away so we get more news thne what goes national.

Now this is sheer speculation or analysis on my part bit I think Walker won a battle on the way to losing the war. Currently there are signatures being gathered for the 9(?) Republican Senators subject to recall. It looks like all 9 petitions could be successful. If they the local polls show as many as 6 would lose their seats if an election were held.

WI has a long history of being a relatively Liberal leaning state and knowing people from there I can tell you this whole debacle isn't sitting to well with a lot of residents. Whether that unrest turns into political action is yet to be seen. Maybe Walker does have "The Silent Majority"? He'd better because if you listen to the media drumbeat, Hitler has a better chance of getting elected.

What is also interesting to note is to date I don't recall any of the national Republican Leadership coming to his aid. Palin didn't show up, Haven't heard much from the Hannity, Limbaugh, Beck camp that made it's way to my ears at least. Walker IMO is on a hostile Island surrounded. You'll note we haven't heard squat from him in quite a while.

I'm no giant fan of organized labor in its current form, however I do believe that the rights of the individual supersede the rights of the state. Individuals should be able to form their own self interest groups to lobby for whatever they wish and that in my mind includes a union. You want to debate the relative merits of the NEA then we are likely on the same side.

So your saying the guy footin' the bill, i.e. Joe Tax-payer, should have a seat at the bargaing table ! Sounds good to me !

Well I guess since this is not sitting well with the great citizens of Wis. ...........raise their taxes to pay off the union peeps and let them b!tch and moan about that instead !

 

[Kev3188]

It must suck to not be that bright...

"Pay them off?" Are you really that out of step with what's going on, or is this all just an act?

 

[dapoes]

Whoops! Can you say Conflict of Interest?

This is a problem. Judge Maryann Sumi should have recused herself entirely from the Wisconsin battle due to her inability to be neutral in this case. You see, Maryann Sumi has a clear conflict of interest. Her son is a political operative who also happens to be a former lead field manager with the AFL-CIO and data manager for the SEIU State Council. Both the SEIU and the AFL-CIO have members who are public-sector employees in Wisconsin. In fact, as a federation, the AFL-CIO can boast of several member-unions that represent public-sector employees. Maryann Sumi is hardly an unbiased judge in the matter.

 

[Dog Wonder]

It must suck to not be that bright...

"Pay them off?" Are you really that out of step with what's going on, or is this al just an act?

He is a liberal plant, posting to make conservatives look like morons.

 

[delldude]

Bad news for all you union haters.

A judge just blocked the law!!!!!

You forgot to mention....Liberal activist judge SEIU approved.

 

[dapoes]

Wisconsin Union Bullies Circulating Boycott Letters:

Nice business you got there.

Shame if something happened to it.​

Members of Wisconsin State Employees Union, AFSCME Council 24, have begun circulating letters to businesses in southeast Wisconsin, asking them to support workers’ rights by putting up a sign in their windows.
If businesses fail to comply, the letter says, “Failure to do so will leave us no choice but (to) do a public boycott of your business. And sorry, neutral means 'no' to those who work for the largest employer in the area and are union members."
Jim Parrett, a field representative of Council 24 for Southeast Wisconsin, confirmed the contents of the letter, which carries his signature.

So even if you tacitly support the efforts of unions but don't want to be publicly involved, you'll be illegally targeted.

That sounds like a fairly explicit threat to harm a company’s business. So it’s worth noting these Wisconsin laws*:

943.30 Threats to injure or accuse of crime. (1) Whoever, either verbally or by any written or printed communication,
maliciously threatens to accuse or accuses another of any crime or offense, or threatens or commits any injury to the person, property, business, profession, calling or trade, or the profits and income of any business, profession, calling or trade of another, with intent thereby to extort money or any pecuniary advantage whatever, or with intent to compel the person so threatened to do any act against the person’s will or omit to do any lawful act, is guilty of a Class H felony.

943.31 Threats to communicate derogatory information. Whoever threatens to communicate to anyone information, whether true or false, which would injure the reputation of the threatened person or another unless the threatened person transfers property to a person known not to be entitled to it is guilty of a Class I felony.
History: 1977 c. 173; 2001 a. 109.
A threat to injure a manager’s reputation unless a job is offered violated this section.
State v. Gilkes, 118 Wis. 2d 149, 345 N.W.2d 531 (Ct. App. 1984).

And:

134.01 Injury to business; restraint of will. Any 2 or more persons who shall combine, associate, agree, mutually undertake or concert together for the purpose of willfully or maliciously injuring another in his or her reputation, trade, business or profession by any means whatever, or for the purpose of maliciously compelling another to do or perform any act against his or
her will, or preventing or hindering another from doing or performing any lawful act shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail not more than one year or by fine not exceeding $500.[/i

 

[SparrowHawk]

Have the Wisconsin unions gone over the line?

My litmus test has always been initiation of force. Which to date they haven't done. Boycotts and threats thereof were long a tactic of the civil rights movement and were often quite effective.

What I do find troublesome is the "Which Side Are You On" approach they are taking as it implies initiation of force as a future remedy to those who don't decide publicly which side they are on. Somehow this time "Which Side Are You On" seems wrong to me.

Historically it should be noted that the concept in union struggles has always been that there are no "Neutrals" that deep down everyone has picked a side and that being the case they should go public with the information. This goes back to the Coal field wars and the song Florence Reece wrote as the Harlan Country Sheriff and coal company gun thugs lay in wait for her organizer husband to come home so they could gun him down. Somehow she got word to him through her music and he never came home.

Here is Florence singing the song shortly before her death in 1983

 

[signals]

The collective bargaining is all the unions really have to survive. Even though we are focusing on Wisconsin other governments are going full thoddle against the collective bargaining of unions. In my micro universe, local politicians want to do away with collective bargaining of the...wait for it...the POLICE! No big deal after all who needs cops in this crime free world??? <_<

Think what you want of unions, but they do supply a balance and a buffer. Once they disappear, those who think they are untouchable will find that they are easily replaced. h34r:

Go ahead and kid yourself that you aren't, especially with the people of the CIA about to flood the work market. Yes people from China India and Africa can do a better job than you for a fraction of the price! They are also a lot smarter.

Corporate America won't have to go to a fore in country for cheaper labor, the cheap labor will come here. There's cheap management too!

 

[delldude]

There were police before unions and there will be police after unions.

3's - 8's and 73'rds.......

 

[dapoes]

WI Teacher Charged With Sending Death Threats to GOP Lawmakers​

Her name is Katherine Windels and she is a Wisconsin (union thug) teacher.
​

Not a republican plant as some have surmised at the time.​

According to the criminal complaint, Windels allegedly sent an email threat to State Sen. Robert Cowles (R-Green Bay) March 9. Later that evening, she allegedly sent another email to 15 Republican legislators, including Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau).

The subject line of the second email was: "Atten: Death Threat!!!! Bomb!!!" In that email, she purportedly wrote, "Please put your things in order because you will be killed and your families will also be killed due to your actions in the last 8 weeks."

"I hope you have a good time in hell," she allegedly wrote in the lengthy email in which she purportedly listed scenarios in which the legislators and their families would die, including bombings and by "putting a nice little bullet in your head."

According to the criminal complaint, Windels told investigators “I sent out emails that I was
disgusted and very upset by what they were doing.”

 

[SparrowHawk]

WI Teacher Charged With Sending Death Threats to GOP Lawmakers​

Her name is Katherine Windels and she is a Wisconsin (union thug) teacher.
​

Not a republican plant as some have surmised at the time.​

If this is the case then I have a difficult time supporting their efforts in WI. Now the evidence hasn't been tested in court yet so a rush to judgement is inappropriate.

Just for Giggles I wonder what the reaction would be if it came out that the person sending those e-mails was an operative of the Republican Party and their actions could be traced right to Scott Walker? Boy that would be something wouldn't it? Kinda brings a tear to my eye


The truth is out there! Trust no one.

 

[dapoes]

If this is the case then I have a difficult time supporting their efforts in WI. Now the evidence hasn't been tested in court yet so a rush to judgement is inappropriate.

Just for Giggles I wonder what the reaction would be if it came out that the person sending those e-mails was an operative of the Republican Party and their actions could be traced right to Scott Walker? Boy that would be something wouldn't it? Kinda brings a tear to my eye


The truth is out there! Trust no one.

Rush to what judgement? She admitted to doing it!

Not to bust your chops Sparrow, but the only one guilty of "Rushing to Judgement" was you in a previous post on the very same subject. Basically echoing what you said above and saying you wouldn't be surprised if it was a republican operative, etc. Right?

 

[SparrowHawk]

Rush to what judgement? She admitted to doing it!

Has she been convicted in a court of law? If the answer is no then personally I wait until such happens. Assuming for the sake of discussion she is guilty, this is the type of thing that just ruins it for Unions. I have openly supported the right of any US citizen to band together with others of like mind to seek redress of their grievances regardless of the type they may be. Work, Government or whatever, in my mind this is a fundamental right conferred upon every living human being by no less than God Himself or our Creator if you prefer. So in that respect I openly support unions. However when we get into initiation of force and e-mail death threats, the folks in WI lose my support in totality. IMO what Walker has done is wrong. Advocating violence is to me "More Wrong" and frankly I hope they drop the legal hammer on this woman. Her actions also beg the question is anyone that stupid qualified to be a teacher?

Not to bust your chops Sparrow, but the only one guilty of "Rushing to Judgement" was you in a previous post on the very same subject. Basically echoing what you said above and saying you wouldn't be surprised if it was a republican operative, etc. Right?

Thanks for the reminder. You're right I don't trust the Republicans or the Democrats. IMO they are two roving gangs of common criminals. Hell the Hell's Angels and Pagan's have a higher code of honor. In fact given the choice I'd rather be in a room full of Bikers then Politicians. Difference being a Biker will look you in the eye and stab you to death, then smile. OTOH politicians will smile to your face and stab you in the back as you walk away. I'm funny that way. If I'm going to die I'd like to see who kills me.

 

[dapoes]

Has she been convicted in a court of law? If the answer is no then personally I wait until such happens.

I'm thinking a conviction is going to be a slam dunk when she outright confessed to being the author of the email. But you are correct, we should wait for an arrest, confession and conviction of the union thug before we make assumptions that it came from a republican operative.

 

[SparrowHawk]

I'm thinking a conviction is going to be a slam dunk when she outright confessed to being the author of the email. But you are correct, we should wait for an arrest, confession and conviction of the union thug before we make assumptions that it came from a republican operative.

Thia is what the politicians don't grasp

IMO is the breeding grounds for either total apathy or activism such as Moveon.org and the tea party groups. When you lose the trust of a significant percentage of the population you're really lost control of the country in many ways.

I was just tweaking folks with the "Republican Operative" thing, then I realized I could be right and not only was it plausible it might be true. The sadder truth is the Democrats aren't any better and one could argue that they are worse when it comes to this kind of crap.

Way back in 1972 when my Libertarian beliefs were beginning to take shape I was with some friends discussing politics and I made a very bold statement. I said, "Guys, blood will flow in the streets of the United States before we pass away". The more our trust in those that purport to lead us diminishes the closer we get to my prediction becoming a reality. The furor in WI brings us one step closer to me being right some 38 years ago. I want to be wrong so badly, but alas I think I am going to be spot on.