Wisconsin

[SparrowHawk]

Your probably right. But what I was referring to was the long held notion that "when xxxx happens, the kids suffer" educationally.

Now if the kids are to suffer thru acts of retribution and vengeance then that's another issue altogether. That should not be a factor either when facing the harsh reality of the states financial situation. If the teachers start acting up, then fire them. There's plenty who would love to take their job. It's one of the main reasons I despise most unions. They don't get there way so they take it out on those who have nothing to do with it. Animals.

I can tell you that it's virtually impossible to fire a teacher unless they have Kiddie-Porn on campus or commit an outright criminal act of some nature. Trying to as a parent when EVERYBODY including the Teacher in question knows you've got a legitimate claim is impossible, at least in my experience. I briefly had police protection in that a car would be outside the house or drive by at random hours whilst I was in the middle of all of the crap with the School Board and trying to get her fired. Now in fairness I did take on a 30 year teacher who was a union leader so the board had no testosterone for yet another fight and the requisite unbudgeted legal fess and time required to force the issue.

FINALLY after nearly 60 days of raising hell I got a call from the School Board President politely asking me to "Drop the whole Thing". He presented me with a well reasoned argument that even though I was right, winning would only make it worse than it already was in the community and to please consider the whole community before I moved forward. The end of the story was I agreed with him and we sold our home and moved to a neighboring district with better test scores, better facilities, etc etc. A district that I might add was noted for superior Labor Relations, whose teachers work a longer day than any other in the state, work more days and in my experience were dedicated, engaged and involved in the facilitation of learning.

The interesting thing is they were the 7th highest paid in the state from a district with the lowest Gross Family Income in the county. The Community supported the schools with their wallets and the educators return that trust. To bad it doesn't happen like that everyplace

 

[Kev3188]

Please explain the direct hardships kids will have to endure because the small percentage of WI citizens (who happen to be greedy union teachers) are now going to have to chip in to cover their health care costs. And still at a much less cost then the rest of WI citizens. Please correlate something theat resembles cause and effect.

You continue to put teacher concessions and cuts to district budgets in the same basket. Walker is doing both.

Larger class sizes, cuts to Head Start, cuts to lunch programs, cuts to reading initiatives, cuts to AP classes- the list goes on and on.

Thats a pathetic myth that is deeply ingrained into the union mental madness. If you think your education quality is dependent upon your teachers being in a union, you're right...but in the wrong direction.

Again, I'm talking about cuts to education spending itself. If you can't grasp that, I can't help you. Someday, hopefully you and I can have a substantive debate despite our ideological differences.

And to the rest of your rebuttals, you make it sound like the apocalypse has been rendered against WI. It hasn't. Its for the benefit for the entire citizens of the state, not the privileged entitled few who happen to cling to their union label like a life raft.

Exactly! The entire state. Precisely why I noted examples that effect everyone.

 

[dapoes]

You continue to put teacher concessions and cuts to district budgets in the same basket. Walker is doing both.

Larger class sizes, cuts to Head Start, cuts to lunch programs, cuts to reading initiatives, cuts to AP classes- the list goes on and on.



Again, I'm talking about cuts to education spending itself. If you can't grasp that, I can't help you. Someday, hopefully you and I can have a substantive debate despite our ideological differences.



Exactly! The entire state. Precisely why I noted examples that effect everyone.

The cuts now are much less painfully then what would happen if the status quo was upheld. And your view of substantive debate is "tax the rich" class warfare. This we will never agree on. Right Kev?

 

[dapoes]

After weeks of turmoil and a brutal political battle, Wisconsin Governer Scott Walker has managed to pass the necessary legislation to save 1,500 state workers from the unemployment rolls. 

Despite it’s unpopularity among the union members, Governor Walker bravely followed the pronouncement from President Obama that, “Everybody’s going to have to give. Everybody’s going to have to have some skin in the game.”

 Although organized labor leaders and left leaning politicians were furious with the new legislation, I am sure those workers who get to keep their jobs are quite happy.

 

[Kev3188]

The cuts now are much less painfully then what would happen if the status quo was upheld. And your view of substantive debate is "tax the rich" class warfare. This we will never agree on. Right Kev?

We'll likely never agree on anything, but a demagoguery free post or two by you would go a long way.

As for taxes, I'm for everybody-including corporations- paying their fair share.

 

[dapoes]

We'll likely never agree on anything, but a demagoguery free post or two by you would go a long way.

As for taxes, I'm for everybody-including corporations- paying their fair share.

That's harsh Kev.

 

[dapoes]

UNION THUGS Bully & Harass WI Tea Partiers – Rip Up Their Recall Petition (Video) http://bit.ly/eUnvcp

 

[SparrowHawk]

UNION THUGS Bully & Harass WI Tea Partiers – Rip Up Their Recall Petition (Video) http://bit.ly/eUnvcp

Before one is so quick to hate Unions consider the company you keep!

"We must close union offices, confiscate their money and put their leaders in prison. We must reduce workers salaries and take away their right to strike" - Adolf Hitler, May 2, 1933.

History is often a good teacher. The problem is most of us suck as students of it. Isn't it all those flag waving Republicans and conservative Christians who say "You're judged by the company you keep"? & that "Character Counts"? I seem to remember hearing these phrases a great deal during the "BlewClinski" scandal.

Given the quote from history would it be a fair question to ask if Scott Walker is the new Hitler? All I'm saying is I want all of these good moral christian Republicans to take a look at who they threw in with historically speaking.

This post ought to starch a few undies

 

[delldude]

Before one is so quick to hate Unions consider the company you keep!

"We must close union offices, confiscate their money and put their leaders in prison. We must reduce workers salaries and take away their right to strike" - Adolf Hitler, May 2, 1933.

History is often a good teacher. The problem is most of us suck as students of it. Isn't it all those flag waving Republicans and conservative Christians who say "You're judged by the company you keep"? & that "Character Counts"? I seem to remember hearing these phrases a great deal during the "BlewClinski" scandal.

Given the quote from history would it be a fair question to ask if Scott Walker is the new Hitler? All I'm saying is I want all of these good moral christian Republicans to take a look at who they threw in with historically speaking.

This post ought to starch a few undies

"All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service." FDR

 

[SparrowHawk]

"All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service." FDR

Hitler and FDR,

Turds of a feather

 

[delldude]

Hitler and FDR,

Turds of a feather

Two sides of the spectrum?

Fascist and Progressive?

 

[SparrowHawk]

Two sides of the spectrum?

Fascist and Progressive?

Just two wings on the same bird of Prey. NOW for a quote from a true freedom lover.

"These are the values inspiring those brave workers in Poland ... They remind us that where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." -- Ronald Reagan, Labor Day Address, 1980

 

[dapoes]

Before one is so quick to hate Unions consider the company you keep!

"We must close union offices, confiscate their money and put their leaders in prison. We must reduce workers salaries and take away their right to strike" - Adolf Hitler, May 2, 1933.

History is often a good teacher. The problem is most of us suck as students of it. Isn't it all those flag waving Republicans and conservative Christians who say "You're judged by the company you keep"? & that "Character Counts"? I seem to remember hearing these phrases a great deal during the "BlewClinski" scandal.

Given the quote from history would it be a fair question to ask if Scott Walker is the new Hitler? All I'm saying is I want all of these good moral christian Republicans to take a look at who they threw in with historically speaking.

This post ought to starch a few undies

Pulling a quote from history that has zero relevance to today's actions. Trying to tie it somehow is ludicrous. Thanks for the mental image of the crazy guy on the corner mumbling nonsense to himself. You used to make sense at one time. Apparently those times are gone.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Pulling a quote from history that has zero relevance to today's actions. Trying to tie it somehow is ludicrous. Thanks for the mental image of the crazy guy on the corner mumbling nonsense to himself. You used to make sense at one time. Apparently those times are gone.

BTW, upon further research it appears that the Hitler quote may be bogus. What is not bogus were his actions on May 2, 1933. I seem to recall a famous quote that applies. "Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it." Ergo the core of my argument is valid.

Ronald Reagan figured this out why can't you?

I eagerly await being dismissed out of hand again when you have no valid argument to support your opinions

 

[Ms Tree]

"Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat

I eagerly await being dismissed out of hand again when you have no valid argument to support your opinions

I thought your quote was rather funny given your comment afterward. Lol. I know you keep hoping for the best but I think you are trying to get blood out of a turnip.