Will UA and U merge in CH11?

[ual06]

NEW YORK, Dec 7 (Reuters) - The chief executive of the
primary lender to bankrupt US Airways Group (BB:UAWGQ) said he
would liquidate the airline if unions refused to provide $200
million in additional wage and benefit concessions, The New
York Times reported on Saturday.

David Bronner, CEO of the Retirement Systems of Alabama,
said he did not expect to have to follow through on his
ultimatum and predicted that cost-cutting discussions between
the airline and its employees would result in an agreement by
next week, The New York Times reported.

"What's their alternative?" Bronner asked rhetorically. "If
they don't want to do this, we'll Chapter 7 it."
Alabama Retirement Systems has provided Arlington,
Virginia-based US Airways with debtor-in-possession financing
to help it operate while under bankruptcy protection. Bronner
said that without the concessions, "we'll pull the DIP
financing and they're gone."
Bronner's stance with the US Airways unions is an example
of the tough stance analysts expect airlines to begin taking
with employees now that a bankruptcy filing by UAL Corp.'s
(NYSE:UAL) United Airlines is widely expected.

Executives at American Airlines' parent AMR Corp. (NYSE:AMR),
traveling around the country to meet with employees, also have
asked workers to forgo pay increases next year in order to trim
expenses by $3 billion to $4 billion.


Copyright 2002, Reuters News Service

 

[autofixer]

Prediction, UAL and U will both be transformed into a new single entity (thanks to ch 11 and the courts) over a period of several years. Lower operating costs and lower, much lower labor costs. It will be chop, chop time (it already is at U) and those laborers who remain will feel fortunate enough to still be here at UAL & U (how is that for a name, sounds like a railroad). What is it that Wall Street is saying? They are saying UAL was too focused on becoming the "biggest" airline. They say UAL--and they said U--had operating and labor cost that were not in line with revenue. I know everyone at UAL is worried (you should be), but sometimes you need to look at what is happening around you to know what is happening to you. I personally could care a less because I am out of the industry in 22 days.

 

[autofixer]

Prediction, UAL and U will both be transformed into a new single entity (thanks to ch 11 and the courts) over a period of several years. Lower operating costs and lower, much lower labor costs. It will be chop, chop time (it already is at U) and those laborers who remain will feel fortunate enough to still be here at UAL & U (how is that for a name, sounds like a railroad). What is it that Wall Street is saying? They are saying UAL was too focused on becoming the "biggest" airline. They say UAL--and they said U--had operating and labor cost that were not in line with revenue. I know everyone at UAL is worried (you should be), but sometimes you need to look at what is happening around you to know what is happening to you. I personally could care a less because I am out of the industry in 22 days.

 

[767jetz]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/7/2002 549 PM DCAflyer wrote:

UAL, on the other hand, as far as we can tell, has yet to obtain a DIP financing commitment.
DCAflyer
----------------
[/blockquote]


Um... Actually you're wrong again. United is close to finalizing over $1.5 Billion in DIP financing, if it is needed. In addition to that we have STAR members and some local governments lining up to loan us additional $.

Don't try to seal our fate just yet.

Sounds to me like a you're a bitter person looking for some company in your misery. Don't count on us joining you in your hole.

Once again, DIFFERENT AIRLINES... DIFFERENT ASSETS... DIFFERENT OUTCOME.

Maybe you should stop peeking over our shoulder and trying to scare the good folks here at United, and start worring about your own.

United WILL stand!

 

[767jetz]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/7/2002 549 PM DCAflyer wrote:

UAL, on the other hand, as far as we can tell, has yet to obtain a DIP financing commitment.
DCAflyer
----------------
[/blockquote]


Um... Actually you're wrong again. United is close to finalizing over $1.5 Billion in DIP financing, if it is needed. In addition to that we have STAR members and some local governments lining up to loan us additional $.

Don't try to seal our fate just yet.

Sounds to me like a you're a bitter person looking for some company in your misery. Don't count on us joining you in your hole.

Once again, DIFFERENT AIRLINES... DIFFERENT ASSETS... DIFFERENT OUTCOME.

Maybe you should stop peeking over our shoulder and trying to scare the good folks here at United, and start worring about your own.

United WILL stand!

 

[DCAflyer]

Winglet hypothesized:

UAL will survive, but, unfortunately, I predict that U will ultimately fail (by next summer), the lucrative parts of US Airways sold off and the remains relegated to regionals. I hope I'm proved wrong by an economy that blazes back in the spring, but I'm not putting any money on it. This is becoming a high stakes contest of who can stay breathing the longest.

DCAflyer says:

I hate to break it to you, Winglet, but U is a hell of a lot more likely to make it successfully out of C-11 than is UAL. Our ducks are in a row, despite the current chess game being played in Arlington right now. We will get through the bankruptcy and have a billion dollar golden egg to show for it. UAL, on the other hand, as far as we can tell, has yet to obtain a DIP financing commitment. C-11 will take, at a minimum, almost a year to be resolved, and that is after ESOP is gutted and union contracts are abrogated. The ATSB guarantee may not be available to UAL after such a long time (and continued heavy lobbying from DAL, Crapinental, and that other AAirline).

My bet is that The Pacific Group will emerge the DIP frontrunner for UAL and that TPG, RSA, UAL and U will work together, with the respective bankruptcy counsel and court or courts, to put together a corporate transaction. How that plays out we have yet to see. But without a doubt, USAirnited will emerge with far superior cost, revenue, alliance, and route structures than any other North American airline.

DCAflyer

 

[DCAflyer]

Winglet hypothesized:

UAL will survive, but, unfortunately, I predict that U will ultimately fail (by next summer), the lucrative parts of US Airways sold off and the remains relegated to regionals. I hope I'm proved wrong by an economy that blazes back in the spring, but I'm not putting any money on it. This is becoming a high stakes contest of who can stay breathing the longest.

DCAflyer says:

I hate to break it to you, Winglet, but U is a hell of a lot more likely to make it successfully out of C-11 than is UAL. Our ducks are in a row, despite the current chess game being played in Arlington right now. We will get through the bankruptcy and have a billion dollar golden egg to show for it. UAL, on the other hand, as far as we can tell, has yet to obtain a DIP financing commitment. C-11 will take, at a minimum, almost a year to be resolved, and that is after ESOP is gutted and union contracts are abrogated. The ATSB guarantee may not be available to UAL after such a long time (and continued heavy lobbying from DAL, Crapinental, and that other AAirline).

My bet is that The Pacific Group will emerge the DIP frontrunner for UAL and that TPG, RSA, UAL and U will work together, with the respective bankruptcy counsel and court or courts, to put together a corporate transaction. How that plays out we have yet to see. But without a doubt, USAirnited will emerge with far superior cost, revenue, alliance, and route structures than any other North American airline.

DCAflyer

 

[autofixer]

Once you enter Ch 11 anything and everything is possible. It is naive to think that UAL is any different than any other corportation that enters bankruptcy. The courts rule the day. Once the DIP financing is set up, the courts AND the money men rule the day. Union contracts and work rules are changeble, thus, become useless. Wall Street thinks UAL is too big. I do not know if that is right or wrong, but I am not going to affect the outcome of the bankruptcy proceedings at UAL, Wall Street will. Wall Street thinks UAL's labor costs are too high...labor costs WILL plumet. Venders will be forced to conceed; vendors may not agree and force the company into Ch 7. Who knows! Maybe your DIP financer may decide to "pull the plug" on your financing if labor issues go poorly. Get ready.

 

[autofixer]

Once you enter Ch 11 anything and everything is possible. It is naive to think that UAL is any different than any other corportation that enters bankruptcy. The courts rule the day. Once the DIP financing is set up, the courts AND the money men rule the day. Union contracts and work rules are changeble, thus, become useless. Wall Street thinks UAL is too big. I do not know if that is right or wrong, but I am not going to affect the outcome of the bankruptcy proceedings at UAL, Wall Street will. Wall Street thinks UAL's labor costs are too high...labor costs WILL plumet. Venders will be forced to conceed; vendors may not agree and force the company into Ch 7. Who knows! Maybe your DIP financer may decide to "pull the plug" on your financing if labor issues go poorly. Get ready.

 

[FrugalFlyer]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/7/2002 549 PM DCAflyer wrote:
DCAflyer says:

I hate to break it to you, Winglet, but U is a hell of a lot more likely to make it successfully out of C-11 than is UAL. Our ducks are in a row, despite the current chess game being played in Arlington right now. We will get through the bankruptcy and have a billion dollar golden egg to show for it. UAL, on the other hand, as far as we can tell, has yet to obtain a DIP financing commitment. C-11 will take, at a minimum, almost a year to be resolved, and that is after ESOP is gutted and union contracts are abrogated. The ATSB guarantee may not be available to UAL after such a long time (and continued heavy lobbying from DAL, Crapinental, and that other AAirline).

DCAflyer
----------------
[/blockquote]

From a non-employee, neutral position, both companies are in deep trouble (no offense). To USAirways' credit, they have obtained a conditional ATSB loan and are restructuring, but, RSA is already threatning to pull the DIP and force a chapter 7 liquidation if employees do not come up with more concessions. Doesn't look too good.
UAL on the other hand, is not in chpt. 11, yet. Also, UAL has more assets, and the * alliance carriers, some of which owe UA a favor, eh

Yes, UA has problems, but it may be easier for UA to overcome them, restructure via chpt. 11 and still emerge as a GLOBAL (not a regional)network carrier (although slightly reduced from its current form).

A merger, or acquisition or unique/special corporate transaction is not what either company needs.

 

[FrugalFlyer]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/7/2002 549 PM DCAflyer wrote:
DCAflyer says:

I hate to break it to you, Winglet, but U is a hell of a lot more likely to make it successfully out of C-11 than is UAL. Our ducks are in a row, despite the current chess game being played in Arlington right now. We will get through the bankruptcy and have a billion dollar golden egg to show for it. UAL, on the other hand, as far as we can tell, has yet to obtain a DIP financing commitment. C-11 will take, at a minimum, almost a year to be resolved, and that is after ESOP is gutted and union contracts are abrogated. The ATSB guarantee may not be available to UAL after such a long time (and continued heavy lobbying from DAL, Crapinental, and that other AAirline).

DCAflyer
----------------
[/blockquote]

From a non-employee, neutral position, both companies are in deep trouble (no offense). To USAirways' credit, they have obtained a conditional ATSB loan and are restructuring, but, RSA is already threatning to pull the DIP and force a chapter 7 liquidation if employees do not come up with more concessions. Doesn't look too good.
UAL on the other hand, is not in chpt. 11, yet. Also, UAL has more assets, and the * alliance carriers, some of which owe UA a favor, eh

Yes, UA has problems, but it may be easier for UA to overcome them, restructure via chpt. 11 and still emerge as a GLOBAL (not a regional)network carrier (although slightly reduced from its current form).

A merger, or acquisition or unique/special corporate transaction is not what either company needs.

 

[autofixer]

How much more would U be worth to the star alliance than UAL? Why would the alliance particularly want UAL? Look at the places U serves. Don't get arrogant just because you are big. I know you have been brain washed to this. After all IL, CA, CO voted democrat. Who is in power at this time? I am not wishing anything on anyone. As I have said, I am out of the industry (voluntarily) as of 1 January. I am only trying to interject a reality check.

 

[autofixer]

How much more would U be worth to the star alliance than UAL? Why would the alliance particularly want UAL? Look at the places U serves. Don't get arrogant just because you are big. I know you have been brain washed to this. After all IL, CA, CO voted democrat. Who is in power at this time? I am not wishing anything on anyone. As I have said, I am out of the industry (voluntarily) as of 1 January. I am only trying to interject a reality check.

 

[ForkTime2002]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/7/2002 1139 PM autofixer wrote:
[P]How much more would U be worth to the star alliance than UAL?[BR][STRONG][FONT face="Times New Roman"]compare route networks and get back to us.[BR][/FONT][/STRONG][BR] Why would the alliance particularly want UAL?[BR][STRONG][FONT face="Times New Roman"]See above.[/FONT][/STRONG][BR] [BR]Look at the places U serves[BR][STRONG][FONT face="Times New Roman"]Look at what we dont,HKG,SYD,NRT,LHR.[/FONT][/STRONG][BR][BR][BR][/P][/BLOCKQUOTE]

 

[ForkTime2002]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/7/2002 1139 PM autofixer wrote:
[P]How much more would U be worth to the star alliance than UAL?[BR][STRONG][FONT face="Times New Roman"]compare route networks and get back to us.[BR][/FONT][/STRONG][BR] Why would the alliance particularly want UAL?[BR][STRONG][FONT face="Times New Roman"]See above.[/FONT][/STRONG][BR] [BR]Look at the places U serves[BR][STRONG][FONT face="Times New Roman"]Look at what we dont,HKG,SYD,NRT,LHR.[/FONT][/STRONG][BR][BR][BR][/P][/BLOCKQUOTE]