Will UA and U merge in CH11?

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

Conrail is a great example of why it won't happen. Take a bunch of failed railroads, and shove them together into a government subsidized corporation which became the Amtrak for freight in the Northeast.

And, it ultimately failed.

DCAFlyer, I suggest you subscribe to Bankrupt.Com's research if you want a total list. I don't need to provide you or anyone else with free research tools...

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

Conrail is a great example of why it won't happen. Take a bunch of failed railroads, and shove them together into a government subsidized corporation which became the Amtrak for freight in the Northeast.

And, it ultimately failed.

DCAFlyer, I suggest you subscribe to Bankrupt.Com's research if you want a total list. I don't need to provide you or anyone else with free research tools...

 

[ForkTime2002]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/6/2002 112 PM chipmunn wrote:
[P]If a US & UA transaction occurred after US's emergence, the OMB guidelines permit both loan guarantees or $3 billion to be used for a transaction.[BR][BR]In addition, with RSA in agreement to control the US board upon emergence, the asset rich pension fund has $25 billion to fund a corporate transaction.[BR][BR]Chip [/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][FONT face="Times New Roman"][/FONT][/P][FONT face="Times New Roman"][STRONG] UAL was just turned down for the loan ,did you miss that?You make it sound like RSA is doing us a favor "Agreeing to control the board".The pension fund has $25 billion to fund a corporate transaction? Should they be so inclined.They have the pension responsibility for tens of thousands of retirees in alabama.They'd get lynched in a second if they threw more money at a corporate transaction, especially if sadam starts playing games or god forbid there is an incident involving a us airline somewhere in the world.[/STRONG][/FONT]

 

[ForkTime2002]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/6/2002 112 PM chipmunn wrote:
[P]If a US & UA transaction occurred after US's emergence, the OMB guidelines permit both loan guarantees or $3 billion to be used for a transaction.[BR][BR]In addition, with RSA in agreement to control the US board upon emergence, the asset rich pension fund has $25 billion to fund a corporate transaction.[BR][BR]Chip [/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][FONT face="Times New Roman"][/FONT][/P][FONT face="Times New Roman"][STRONG] UAL was just turned down for the loan ,did you miss that?You make it sound like RSA is doing us a favor "Agreeing to control the board".The pension fund has $25 billion to fund a corporate transaction? Should they be so inclined.They have the pension responsibility for tens of thousands of retirees in alabama.They'd get lynched in a second if they threw more money at a corporate transaction, especially if sadam starts playing games or god forbid there is an incident involving a us airline somewhere in the world.[/STRONG][/FONT]

 

[The Ronin]

Merge what???? Chip you need to be drug tested...U is not going to make it out of BK. They are being wiped out, ch 7 by late spring. UAL...if things don't turn soon, ch 7 by late 2003. Especially when UAL pilots contract gets ripped apart, along with the others...won't be much of an airline left for UAL.

 

[The Ronin]

Merge what???? Chip you need to be drug tested...U is not going to make it out of BK. They are being wiped out, ch 7 by late spring. UAL...if things don't turn soon, ch 7 by late 2003. Especially when UAL pilots contract gets ripped apart, along with the others...won't be much of an airline left for UAL.

 

[767jetz]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/7/2002 10:13:51 AM DCAflyer wrote:

U and UAL, as we know them, are gone. We all need to realize that. We may or may not have a chance to become a powerhouse airline in some combined form. But combined is the only way both of us are going to get through this chapter, emerge, and prosper. I think we can do it.

DCAflyer
----------------
[/blockquote]


Why do you guys continue to try to link UA & US together? I can't speak for US Air, however United Airlines is far from gone! You need to realize that.

You may see a combination of our airlines as US Air's only hope for survival, but it is certainly not neccessary for UA to survive. Look at the history of past companies that have successfully emerged from CH11. World wide reach. Presence in major metropolitan markets throughout the US. UA has so much more going for it than US, even in CH11.

I'm not saying that a business association with US Air would not be beneficial to both our companies. I'm just saying it is not the magic pill for UA's survival. The last thing we need is more trouble at either of our companies. Being obsessed with a merger and losing sight of our own airline's business is part of what got us to the point we're at today. If we don't learn from our mistakes, then we are all truely destined to fail.

Here's an idea. You guys mind your store. We'll mind ours. And the best of luck to us all!

 

[767jetz]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/7/2002 10:13:51 AM DCAflyer wrote:

U and UAL, as we know them, are gone. We all need to realize that. We may or may not have a chance to become a powerhouse airline in some combined form. But combined is the only way both of us are going to get through this chapter, emerge, and prosper. I think we can do it.

DCAflyer
----------------
[/blockquote]


Why do you guys continue to try to link UA & US together? I can't speak for US Air, however United Airlines is far from gone! You need to realize that.

You may see a combination of our airlines as US Air's only hope for survival, but it is certainly not neccessary for UA to survive. Look at the history of past companies that have successfully emerged from CH11. World wide reach. Presence in major metropolitan markets throughout the US. UA has so much more going for it than US, even in CH11.

I'm not saying that a business association with US Air would not be beneficial to both our companies. I'm just saying it is not the magic pill for UA's survival. The last thing we need is more trouble at either of our companies. Being obsessed with a merger and losing sight of our own airline's business is part of what got us to the point we're at today. If we don't learn from our mistakes, then we are all truely destined to fail.

Here's an idea. You guys mind your store. We'll mind ours. And the best of luck to us all!

 

[DCAflyer]

Forktime2002 said:


UAL was just turned down for the loan ,did you miss that?You make it sound like RSA is doing us a favor "Agreeing to control the board".The pension fund has $25 billion to fund a corporate transaction? Should they be so inclined.They have the pension responsibility for tens of thousands of retirees in alabama.They'd get lynched in a second if they threw more money at a corporate transaction, especially if sadam starts playing games or god forbid there is an incident involving a us airline somewhere in the world.


DCAflyer responds:

Forktime, not that I ever feel compeled to respond to your usual nastiness... yes, UAL got a loan guarantee rejection. But the ATSB left the door open for UAL to return with an amended application. A complete corporate overhaul is what will need to happen, and as both Chip and I have said in the past, the there is little doubt that the ATSB will continue renew their rejection unless and until the employees are no longer in control of the BOD. For that to happen, UAL will need to go into C-11.

Chip is absolutly correct when he says that options for both companies being combined, with or without a formal merger or acquisition, in whole or in part, are being explored... probably even moreso now that UAL knows they have to enter bankruptcy and restructure the BOD. To suggest that there is no chance that there will be a corporate transaction between the two is naive. U and UAL have complementary route networks and fleet types. Notwithstanding the crap that was spewed by UAL employee-owners last year (crap that will become moot the second UAL enters the courthouse!) it is a very real possibility that we will see some closer arrangement between the two companies above a codeshare. Both companies are in the fight of their lives and it is clear the employees wishes will be the least of everyones' concern.

U and UAL, as we know them, are gone. We all need to realize that. We may or may not have a chance to become a powerhouse airline in some combined form. But combined is the only way both of us are going to get through this chapter, emerge, and prosper. I think we can do it.

DCAflyer

 

[DCAflyer]

Forktime2002 said:


UAL was just turned down for the loan ,did you miss that?You make it sound like RSA is doing us a favor "Agreeing to control the board".The pension fund has $25 billion to fund a corporate transaction? Should they be so inclined.They have the pension responsibility for tens of thousands of retirees in alabama.They'd get lynched in a second if they threw more money at a corporate transaction, especially if sadam starts playing games or god forbid there is an incident involving a us airline somewhere in the world.


DCAflyer responds:

Forktime, not that I ever feel compeled to respond to your usual nastiness... yes, UAL got a loan guarantee rejection. But the ATSB left the door open for UAL to return with an amended application. A complete corporate overhaul is what will need to happen, and as both Chip and I have said in the past, the there is little doubt that the ATSB will continue renew their rejection unless and until the employees are no longer in control of the BOD. For that to happen, UAL will need to go into C-11.

Chip is absolutly correct when he says that options for both companies being combined, with or without a formal merger or acquisition, in whole or in part, are being explored... probably even moreso now that UAL knows they have to enter bankruptcy and restructure the BOD. To suggest that there is no chance that there will be a corporate transaction between the two is naive. U and UAL have complementary route networks and fleet types. Notwithstanding the crap that was spewed by UAL employee-owners last year (crap that will become moot the second UAL enters the courthouse!) it is a very real possibility that we will see some closer arrangement between the two companies above a codeshare. Both companies are in the fight of their lives and it is clear the employees wishes will be the least of everyones' concern.

U and UAL, as we know them, are gone. We all need to realize that. We may or may not have a chance to become a powerhouse airline in some combined form. But combined is the only way both of us are going to get through this chapter, emerge, and prosper. I think we can do it.

DCAflyer

 

[Winglet]

UAL will survive, but, unfortunately, I predict that U will ultimately fail (by next summer), the lucrative parts of US Airways sold off and the remains relegated to regionals. I hope I'm proved wrong by an economy that blazes back in the spring, but I'm not putting any money on it. This is becoming a high stakes contest of who can stay breathing the longest.

 

[Winglet]

UAL will survive, but, unfortunately, I predict that U will ultimately fail (by next summer), the lucrative parts of US Airways sold off and the remains relegated to regionals. I hope I'm proved wrong by an economy that blazes back in the spring, but I'm not putting any money on it. This is becoming a high stakes contest of who can stay breathing the longest.

 

[ForkTime2002]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/7/2002 10:13:51 AM DCAflyer wrote:
[P][BR][BR]Both companies are in the fight of their lives and it is clear the employees wishes will be the least of everyones' concern.----------------[BR][BR][STRONG][FONT face="Times New Roman"]Ahh a shotgun wedding those always do work out dont they?[/FONT][/STRONG]

 

[ForkTime2002]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/7/2002 10:13:51 AM DCAflyer wrote:
[P][BR][BR]Both companies are in the fight of their lives and it is clear the employees wishes will be the least of everyones' concern.----------------[BR][BR][STRONG][FONT face="Times New Roman"]Ahh a shotgun wedding those always do work out dont they?[/FONT][/STRONG]

 

[ual06]

NEW YORK, Dec 7 (Reuters) - The chief executive of the
primary lender to bankrupt US Airways Group (BB:UAWGQ) said he
would liquidate the airline if unions refused to provide $200
million in additional wage and benefit concessions, The New
York Times reported on Saturday.

David Bronner, CEO of the Retirement Systems of Alabama,
said he did not expect to have to follow through on his
ultimatum and predicted that cost-cutting discussions between
the airline and its employees would result in an agreement by
next week, The New York Times reported.

"What's their alternative?" Bronner asked rhetorically. "If
they don't want to do this, we'll Chapter 7 it."
Alabama Retirement Systems has provided Arlington,
Virginia-based US Airways with debtor-in-possession financing
to help it operate while under bankruptcy protection. Bronner
said that without the concessions, "we'll pull the DIP
financing and they're gone."
Bronner's stance with the US Airways unions is an example
of the tough stance analysts expect airlines to begin taking
with employees now that a bankruptcy filing by UAL Corp.'s
(NYSE:UAL) United Airlines is widely expected.

Executives at American Airlines' parent AMR Corp. (NYSE:AMR),
traveling around the country to meet with employees, also have
asked workers to forgo pay increases next year in order to trim
expenses by $3 billion to $4 billion.


Copyright 2002, Reuters News Service