Will UA and U merge in CH11?

[MrMarky]

I would wager that UAL will file in Deleware and get Judge Walsh, the same judge who handled the TWA/AA affair.

My prediction is that they will file on Sunday. For some reason Sunday seems to be a popular day to file, at least for airlines.

What I've never understood is why are the BK courts even open on Sundays? If I were the BK court, I sure as he11 wouldn't open up on a Sunday just so some airline can file a BK petition. It's not an emergency, let 'em come back on Monday and wait in line like everybody else.

Does anyone know why BK courts seem to be open at all hours of the day and night, seven days a week?

 

[MrMarky]

I would wager that UAL will file in Deleware and get Judge Walsh, the same judge who handled the TWA/AA affair.

My prediction is that they will file on Sunday. For some reason Sunday seems to be a popular day to file, at least for airlines.

What I've never understood is why are the BK courts even open on Sundays? If I were the BK court, I sure as he11 wouldn't open up on a Sunday just so some airline can file a BK petition. It's not an emergency, let 'em come back on Monday and wait in line like everybody else.

Does anyone know why BK courts seem to be open at all hours of the day and night, seven days a week?

 

[ExitPointer]

 

[ExitPointer]

 

[DCAflyer]

Eoleson said:

I can't think of a single case in any industry where two bankrupt companies have been allowed to merge.


DCAflyer replies:

Well then maybe you could tell us the names of all companies that ever filed bankruptcy... which must be in that computer of a brain of yours... and we can cross-reference them.

There is no reason why the bankruptcy courts would give a flying cr@p whether or not two bankrupt companies merge. Even so, by the time a potential merger would happen, U will already be out of restructuring and have its hands on the ATSB guaranteed loan funds, which could go a long way toward funding a merger or corporate transaction. But there is no doubt that the groundwork could be laid while U is still in bankruptcy.

 

[DCAflyer]

Eoleson said:

I can't think of a single case in any industry where two bankrupt companies have been allowed to merge.


DCAflyer replies:

Well then maybe you could tell us the names of all companies that ever filed bankruptcy... which must be in that computer of a brain of yours... and we can cross-reference them.

There is no reason why the bankruptcy courts would give a flying cr@p whether or not two bankrupt companies merge. Even so, by the time a potential merger would happen, U will already be out of restructuring and have its hands on the ATSB guaranteed loan funds, which could go a long way toward funding a merger or corporate transaction. But there is no doubt that the groundwork could be laid while U is still in bankruptcy.

 

[airlineorphan]

DCAflyer raises an important point. However this goes, it will take some time to play itself out.

For those who have asked: Merge? With what money?...
If investment banks want to see consolidation in the airline industry, the money will be made available, particularly if UAL and US are successful in converting themselves into sweatshops.

It's hard to say how it will all turn out. How much in charge are the presidents of the respective airlines? How much are the creditors in charge? DIP finance providers? Are things being done by design or is it SNAFU capitalism?

Unless unions figure out that they need to build industry wide solidarity instead of spending all their time sniping at each other, it will all be balanced on the back of employees. You can bank on that!

-Airlineorphan

 

[airlineorphan]

DCAflyer raises an important point. However this goes, it will take some time to play itself out.

For those who have asked: Merge? With what money?...
If investment banks want to see consolidation in the airline industry, the money will be made available, particularly if UAL and US are successful in converting themselves into sweatshops.

It's hard to say how it will all turn out. How much in charge are the presidents of the respective airlines? How much are the creditors in charge? DIP finance providers? Are things being done by design or is it SNAFU capitalism?

Unless unions figure out that they need to build industry wide solidarity instead of spending all their time sniping at each other, it will all be balanced on the back of employees. You can bank on that!

-Airlineorphan

 

[ExitPointer]

Courts are not open on Sunday.

However, almost every court has a judge "on call" to handle emergency petitions (child welfare, domestic violence).

All you need is a circuit court judge in his boxers, watching the game, to accept the petition. Sign it, date it, and you are hereby under bancruptcy protection.

 

[ExitPointer]

Courts are not open on Sunday.

However, almost every court has a judge "on call" to handle emergency petitions (child welfare, domestic violence).

All you need is a circuit court judge in his boxers, watching the game, to accept the petition. Sign it, date it, and you are hereby under bancruptcy protection.

 

[chipmunn]

DCAFlyer:

DCAflyer said: Even so, by the time a potential merger would happen, U will already be out of restructuring and have its hands on the ATSB guaranteed loan funds, which could go a long way toward funding a merger or corporate transaction.

Chip comments: DCAFlyer, your comment is accurate. Today US' reorganization received a major "shot in the arm" with the new RSA DIP Financing and Equity Investor agreements. In addition, it is expected that US will solve two other major problems, e.g. solving the pension problem and gaining new concessionaire accords with its unions.

Tonight Rueters reported Bronner was confident US Airways would submit its plan of reorganization to the bankruptcy court within about two weeks. But the airline first needs to secure more concessions and solve issues with its underfunded pension, which it has said will require $3.1 billion in contributions from 2003 to 2009. "I think we're there," Bronner said. "I really think if we can solve ... the pension problem, and we get the work rules changed, we can have our plan in court on or about the 20th of December."

After filing its bankruptcy petition UA will have a 120- day exclusive period for filing a Chapter 11 Plan of Reorganization (POR), which would expire in April. I'm sure this will keep Kirkland & Ellis busy during the winter months.

However, one news media report said analysts say UAL will need a large DIP commitment because its time in court is likely to be lengthy. The airline will undoubtedly need wage concessions much more severe than those it has struggled to extract from labor in recent months, and the lost ownership position is likely to leave workers in no mood to negotiate.

With RSA now in control of US board of directors, Rono Dutta a consultant to both RSA and UA, and US planning a March 2003 emergence, US would be in position to buy UA or its assets, if the companies decide to integrate before UA's POR exclusivity period ends. In addition, with the UA ESOP likely to be eliminated along with the UA employees removed from the board of directors, previous impediments to any corporate combination will likely be eliminated in a bankruptcy proceeding.

Chip

 

[chipmunn]

DCAFlyer:

DCAflyer said: Even so, by the time a potential merger would happen, U will already be out of restructuring and have its hands on the ATSB guaranteed loan funds, which could go a long way toward funding a merger or corporate transaction.

Chip comments: DCAFlyer, your comment is accurate. Today US' reorganization received a major "shot in the arm" with the new RSA DIP Financing and Equity Investor agreements. In addition, it is expected that US will solve two other major problems, e.g. solving the pension problem and gaining new concessionaire accords with its unions.

Tonight Rueters reported Bronner was confident US Airways would submit its plan of reorganization to the bankruptcy court within about two weeks. But the airline first needs to secure more concessions and solve issues with its underfunded pension, which it has said will require $3.1 billion in contributions from 2003 to 2009. "I think we're there," Bronner said. "I really think if we can solve ... the pension problem, and we get the work rules changed, we can have our plan in court on or about the 20th of December."

After filing its bankruptcy petition UA will have a 120- day exclusive period for filing a Chapter 11 Plan of Reorganization (POR), which would expire in April. I'm sure this will keep Kirkland & Ellis busy during the winter months.

However, one news media report said analysts say UAL will need a large DIP commitment because its time in court is likely to be lengthy. The airline will undoubtedly need wage concessions much more severe than those it has struggled to extract from labor in recent months, and the lost ownership position is likely to leave workers in no mood to negotiate.

With RSA now in control of US board of directors, Rono Dutta a consultant to both RSA and UA, and US planning a March 2003 emergence, US would be in position to buy UA or its assets, if the companies decide to integrate before UA's POR exclusivity period ends. In addition, with the UA ESOP likely to be eliminated along with the UA employees removed from the board of directors, previous impediments to any corporate combination will likely be eliminated in a bankruptcy proceeding.

Chip

 

[ForkTime2002]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/5/2002 5:54:11 PM DCAflyer wrote:
[P]Picture this...[BR][BR]Retirement Systems of Alabama (RSA) which is US Airways DIP financer, also makes available to UAL similar financing and becomes a key shareholder of both U and UAL. It's not a stretch to think of the possibilities of merging the two airlines, especially given the express approval that ATSB-guaranteed funds that will be available to U can be used for M&A activities. [BR][BR]It will be interesting to see where UAL will file bankruptcy. Imagine them filing in Alexandria, the same court as the U proceedings. [BR][BR]It is a real possibility (if not a probability) that we will see some sort of activity in this regard.[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][STRONG][/STRONG][/P][STRONG][FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3]Picture how happy the Alabama pensioners will be if their director ties these two airlines together and god forbid something happens,either in iraq or to a us airline somewhere in the world...the combined airline goes under and the pensioners are eating saltines and cat food.[/FONT][/STRONG]

 

[ForkTime2002]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/5/2002 5:54:11 PM DCAflyer wrote:
[P]Picture this...[BR][BR]Retirement Systems of Alabama (RSA) which is US Airways DIP financer, also makes available to UAL similar financing and becomes a key shareholder of both U and UAL. It's not a stretch to think of the possibilities of merging the two airlines, especially given the express approval that ATSB-guaranteed funds that will be available to U can be used for M&A activities. [BR][BR]It will be interesting to see where UAL will file bankruptcy. Imagine them filing in Alexandria, the same court as the U proceedings. [BR][BR]It is a real possibility (if not a probability) that we will see some sort of activity in this regard.[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][STRONG][/STRONG][/P][STRONG][FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3]Picture how happy the Alabama pensioners will be if their director ties these two airlines together and god forbid something happens,either in iraq or to a us airline somewhere in the world...the combined airline goes under and the pensioners are eating saltines and cat food.[/FONT][/STRONG]

 

[olivia]

I cannot imagine why the atsb would let an airline
the size of UA go bankrupt. It appears to me that
somehow the ceo's are trying to use the bk excuse
to rid themselves of employee ownership....
and to lower the wages of all the employees.

Yes, we are in difficult situations but perhaps the
government could actually HELP these companies rather
than destroying them.

It is odd that UA is following the exact path that U
took, in every way....like it is a scenario that is
already planned out with atsb help.

I think the big shareholders at UA should start a
law suit against your ceo/board etc, claiming
corporate malfeasance.

any thoughts???