Will The Senate Hearings Also Bring Up Lga & Dca

[UPNAWAY]

thing as the Wright Admendment?

Might as well throw them all out at once.

 

[Ch. 12]

thing as the Wright Admendment?

Might as well throw them all out at once.

Let's not even try to say that DCA and LGA are the same as the WA. You can purchase a ticket from those airports to anywhere you just cannot take a nonstop outside of a radius (one that amazingly reaches American hubs). At DAL, you cannot fly any pax beyond a ricidulously limiting perimiter and you cannot even ticket them for travel beyond via connections. Also...look at the location of all 3 airports. Restrictions at DCA and LGA still allow nonstops to BOS, WAS/NYC, CHI, BDL, PHL, etc, etc. The WA restrictions allow much smaller markets and the few additions in the meantime have been to other small markets. I see that MO will be an exemption going forward which adds STL. Nice move but once again amazing that they only expand it to where there is an AA hub.

Sorry...almost went on a tangent. No, we cannot compare DCA/LGA to DAL.

 

[UPNAWAY]

Sorry...almost went on a tangent. No, we cannot compare DCA/LGA to DAL.
[/quote]


My point is they are all artifical limits to competition.
They LGA and DCA rules used to limit to west of the Mississippi which was obvious to protect
the politicaly connected east coast airlines. At some point in time DFW (AA) had enough clout to get that changed, but you still can't fly LGA/DCA to DEN, PHX or the west coast which is equally as dumb, no?

 

[swflyer]

Sorry...almost went on a tangent. No, we cannot compare DCA/LGA to DAL.
My point is they are all artifical limits to competition.
They LGA and DCA rules used to limit to west of the Mississippi which was obvious to protect
the politicaly connected east coast airlines. At some point in time DFW (AA) had enough clout to get that changed, but you still can't fly LGA/DCA to DEN, PHX or the west coast which is equally as dumb, no?

You are correct about "artificial restraints" and that was the gist of Sen. John McCain's testimony today. If you've got waaaayyy too much time to kill, follow the links to today's Senate hearing. You can fast forward through people you don't care about. McCain's testimony, that I'm referring to, was during the second panel.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Sorry...almost went on a tangent. No, we cannot compare DCA/LGA to DAL.
My point is they are all artifical limits to competition.
They LGA and DCA rules used to limit to west of the Mississippi which was obvious to protect
the politicaly connected east coast airlines. At some point in time DFW (AA) had enough clout to get that changed, but you still can't fly LGA/DCA to DEN, PHX or the west coast which is equally as dumb, no?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

UPNAWAY

It's an ol' saying, that everything in life is THE BOTTOM LINE !

I'm sure you FULLY realize Now/once again, that "the bottom line" IS, that AA has the(MOST) Clout !!

ps,
I'm not going to say to you that "Clout" is right !!

IT's just that;
"It IS what it IS" !!!!!!!!!!!!!

NH/BB's

 

[corl737]

thing as the Wright Admendment?

Might as well throw them all out at once.

There was some early speculation that the only way to get the WA to go away was to link it to something that affected more states (ie, more congressional voters). The wrapping of perimeter rules was floated as a likely choice.

Interesting that DCA and LGA still retain slot restrictions AND perimeter rules. Seems that by limiting the number of flights via slots they're addressing the effect of trans-perimeter flights by default. While I'm not a "slot fan" it may be a decent interim compromise to the WA. By limiting flight activity through federally-allocated slots (such as is done at JFK, LGA, DCA, and ORD), there would be no need to alter the Love Field Master Plan. Let the airlines determine where they want to go with their 250 flts/day. This would eliminate both the arcane geographical restrictions, the simply wierd 56-seat exception, and the through-ticketing limitations. The catch: all restrictions will sunset in 5 years and full deregulation will take effect.

I'd also like to see local entities given more operational control over their airports. While I'm not in favor of unfettered ordinances springing up, allowing cities to work with the FAA to implement a degree of control - free from legal challenges - would be in the best interest of balancing the needs of the local population and the national transportation system. (Nighttime curfews have been grandfathered in at several airports such as SJC, and SAN. Unusual but safe noise abatement procedures were adopted at SNA. Neither have prevented airline ops but have been successful in limiting the adverse effects of those airports on the citizenry.) As long as the restrictions are "standard" through out the industry without any locally introduced "gotcha's" it seems like it would be both managable and acceptable.

 

[ringmaruf]

Interesting that DCA and LGA still retain slot restrictions AND perimeter rules. Seems that by limiting the number of flights via slots they're addressing the effect of trans-perimeter flights by default. While I'm not a "slot fan" it may be a decent interim compromise to the WA. By limiting flight activity through federally-allocated slots (such as is done at JFK, LGA, DCA, and ORD), there would be no need to alter the Love Field Master Plan. Let the airlines determine where they want to go with their 250 flts/day. This would eliminate both the arcane geographical restrictions, the simply wierd 56-seat exception, and the through-ticketing limitations. The catch: all restrictions will sunset in 5 years and full deregulation will take effect.

There's a big reason why LGA and DCA are slot restricted. Congestion. They got rid of slots for RJs at LGA very briefly, with plans to open it completely up, and the place turned into an absolute parking lot. Look at what's happened to ORD since they got rid of slots there, too; they've had to revert it to basically now having de facto slot controls.

The government has made a large number of new slots available to new entrants at both airports. There's just no room for any more without delays getting totally out of hand.

The perimeter rule, I agree, is a different story, and the large slot holders have been lobbying for years to have it removed at both airports.

I don't think it would be necessary to implement slots at DAL, as from what I understand, congestion wouldn't be a problem. There, it really would be nothing more than an artificial constraint on growth.

My point is they are all artifical limits to competition.
They LGA and DCA rules used to limit to west of the Mississippi which was obvious to protect
the politicaly connected east coast airlines. At some point in time DFW (AA) had enough clout to get that changed, but you still can't fly LGA/DCA to DEN, PHX or the west coast which is equally as dumb, no?

LGA-DEN is allowed, as it was grandfathered in.

There have also been 24 beyond-perimeter slot exemptions (12 roundtrips) given out for DCA in recent years, thanks almost entirely to Sen. McCain wanting to help out America West. They are held by America West (3x PHX, 1x LAS), Frontier (3x DEN), Alaska (2x SEA, 1x LAX), Delta (1x SLC), United (1x DEN). Of course, their limited number means the airlines get nice revenue premiums for these routes.

I never was a big fan of that, as they were clearly given out to the DOT's (and the politicians') favorites, and not allocated fairly to the airlines or the communities. I think the perimeter rule should be all-or-none, not pick and choose who gets exceptions.

 

[Ch. 12]

LGA-DEN is allowed, as it was grandfathered in.

There have also been 24 beyond-perimeter slot exemptions (12 roundtrips) given out in recent years, thanks almost entirely to Sen. McCain wanting to help out America West. They are held by America West (3x PHX, 1x LAS), Frontier (3x DEN), Alaska (2x SEA, 1x LAX), Delta (1x SLC), United (1x DEN). Of course, their limited number means the airlines get nice revenue premiums for these routes.

You do mean DCA on the exemptions, correct? The recently expanded exemptions were for DCA (with the exception of LGA-DEN which is flown by UA and F9).

 

[ringmaruf]

You do mean DCA on the exemptions, correct? The recently expanded exemptions were for DCA (with the exception of LGA-DEN which is flown by UA and F9).

Yes, of course, I meant DCA. That's what I get for posting at 5:30 in the morning. :blink: