Why Tim Nelson is Dangerous to IAM-represented employees at United Airlines

[Kev3188]

You have repeatedly tried to argue here (including on this thread) and elsewhere that DL's treatment of its employees is the primary reason for why its employees need a union and you trotted it out here yet again.

Um, no.

Josh & I are talking about a group of participants on a FB page and their actions, not how the company treats it's employees. So unless you are claiming that the "NoWay" page is company sponsored, then it's 2 separate pieces.


 
 

Your view of the world is thru scratched, gray colored goggles that doesn't match the reality for people at DL or for how UA employees chose to vote on their CBA, as much as I also agree that they made a mistake.

Definitely a mistake, IMO. You know what the silver lining is, though? They got to VOTE on it.

 

[WorldTraveler]

tell me again, Kev, how this fits in with the topic and the conversation you were having with Josh.

Clearly.

Or maybe, I've already covered what Josh was looking for, and know that he already knows where I stand. As do you.

Remind us, though: As at will employees, what "protections" do DL workers enjoy?

 

[700UW]

You got some set I bet, you are the biggest one of going off thread, look at the threads, every damn thread you post in on other airlines you bring deltoid into it, when it has nothing to do with them and you are the biggest instigator of personal attacks.
 
Did you go off your meds or is the merger driving you over the edge since the new AA will be better than DL, lol!

 

[WorldTraveler]

The merger agreement that has been repeatedly discussed over the past several days very much affects the size that new AA will be relative to its competitors, including DL.

You and others parroted about AA being the largest after the merger but you didn't want to talk about the required divestitures that were coming and you now don't want to admit that if DL has the opportunity acquire slots and gates as it intends to do, AA's claim of being the largest might not actually be accurate at all.

I don't take meds, so there is nothing to go off of.

Again, what does this have to do with UA or some sort of labor related discussion?

It appears that the thread in which you posted about pensions was locked and you didn't get a chance to counter so it is ok w/ me that you posted your reply here.

 

[Kev3188]

I don't take meds, so there is nothing to go off of.

Maybe you should start?

 

[WorldTraveler]

but why?

maybe you should?

but what does this have to do with the subject at hand?

So it's ok for you to ask for others to keep the topic on hand except when you want to throw a jab in here or there.

Is that about right?

I think I'll ask for an apology about right now, BTW.

that stands for by the way, BTW.

 

[737823]

You got some set I bet, you are the biggest one of going off thread, look at the threads, every damn thread you post in on other airlines you bring deltoid into it, when it has nothing to do with them and you are the biggest instigator of personal attacks.
 
Did you go off your meds or is the merger driving you over the edge since the new AA will be better than DL, lol!

Pot, kettle. You constantly bring up USAir, IAM and CLT in forums and threads those discussions don't belong.

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

I think I'll ask for an apology about right now, BTW.

that stands for by the way, BTW.

Iseewhatyoudidthere...

 

[700UW]

Pot, kettle. You constantly bring up USAir, IAM and CLT in forums and threads those discussions don't belong.

Josh

Look in the mirror, do you know the definition of a hypocrite?

 

[Kev3188]

Speaking of 141, it looks like talks with HA are getting ready to start:
 
Another chance for 141 to get it right (good).
 
Ira Levy led the prep work (not so much).
 
 
http://www.elabs5.com/functions/message_view.html?mid=1222534&mlid=23100&siteid=32424829&uid=7910550cbf

 

[cltrat]

Speaking of 141, it looks like talks with HA are getting ready to start:
 
Another chance for 141 to get it right (good).
 
Ira Levy led the prep work (not so much).
 
 
http://www.elabs5.com/functions/message_view.html?mid=1222534&mlid=23100&siteid=32424829&uid=7910550cbf

I have litte to no faith in the upper leadership with IAM

 

[Kev3188]

Me either, though my faith has always rested with local reps, shop stewards, grievance chairs, etc. 
 
Let's hope they do right by the Hawaiian Airlines ohana...

 

[saywhat]

we've covered this too... but DL employees despite being "at will" fare better than their peers under CBAs.

Is it really not clear to you why DL employees have consistently voted not to vote in any more unions and why the DL/NW merger resulted in the largest reduction in the number of union members in the history of US aviation?

How many RR have they hired at DL since rejection of the Union? A former NW employee that I talk to says since rejection of Union there have only been RR hired in his station whereas before the vote there were no RR. I believe he said about 25% are RR in his station now. Do you think that maybe the anti-Union, take care of a few people and hire only RR is hurting other legacy airlines? Seriously, do you think that having 25% or more of your employees stuck at $8 an hour with no benefits is right by DL? Furthermore, are said anti-Union employees at DL being selfish by letting the Company hire RR to work beside them? You don't think this is contributing to the negotiation woes at UAL, AA, US and LUV?
 
You keep saying how UA is hurting employees in this industry with their contract but I see DL as a bigger factor and the fact that there are so many employees in this industry that are unorganized and paid peanuts which hurts all Unions because it is hard to compete against $8.  

 

[Kev3188]

Well said.

 

[737823]

How many RR have they hired at DL since rejection of the Union? A former NW employee that I talk to says since rejection of Union there have only been RR hired in his station whereas before the vote there were no RR. I believe he said about 25% are RR in his station now. Do you think that maybe the anti-Union, take care of a few people and hire only RR is hurting other legacy airlines? Seriously, do you think that having 25% or more of your employees stuck at $8 an hour with no benefits is right by DL? Furthermore, are said anti-Union employees at DL being selfish by letting the Company hire RR to work beside them? You don't think this is contributing to the negotiation woes at UAL, AA, US and LUV?
 
You keep saying how UA is hurting employees in this industry with their contract but I see DL as a bigger factor and the fact that there are so many employees in this industry that are unorganized and paid peanuts which hurts all Unions because it is hard to compete against $8.

The IAM is hurting airline workers collectively, not DL. DL ready reserve has been around for nearly 30 years, people like the program and the flexibility it offers. No different than other industries transitioning away from full time benefited positions and towards part-time/contract/consultant type arrangements, similar to the growing reliance on adjunct faculty at colleges and universities. How come you didn't condemn part-time reserve the IAM willingly added at Hawaiian Airlines, completely identical to DL ready reserve? What about the fact that most/all of the stations NWA contacted out went to Air Wisconsin, also part of DL 143 allowing the IAM to continue to collect dues? How about all the Air Wisconsin staffed stations at UAL? Bottom line is people are gladly willing to work under the terms DL is offering, I have seen college students, retirees working in DL ACS under the RR program. If you are too good for those terms, don't work for DL but having that attitude because it isn't up to your standards others should not avail themselves to it is outrageous. A program like RR actually would be in the interest of the IAM, more heads to collect dues from although dues per employee would be smaller under the current scheme driven by hourly wage.

Again Kev has ignored the question, but it speaks volumes about the value of union representation when the unorganized sCO passenger service employees join the IAM and then find themselves out of a job or needing to relocate to a hub to maintain employment. Why did DL 141 willingly sign away sCO cargo jobs? They should have taken the better of the two agreements and worked to bring sUA cargo work back in house, which the IAM also gave away years ago.

Josh