Why Tim Nelson is Dangerous to IAM-represented employees at United Airlines

[737823]

Splendid. I'll take that to mean you aren't prepared to answer the question, probably because you don't like the answer and implications.

Thanks.

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

The potential implications of TA2? That's right, I don't. That also shouldn't be news to you.

Nor should my feelings about Delaney, LOAs that conflict with the will of the membership, sclerotic leadership structures in organized labor, and so on.

We've covered all of that ad nauseum over the last several weeks.

 

[WorldTraveler]

He doesn't want to speak to the specifics because he will have to admit that DL employees have better protections and more choices than what this TA gave to UA employees.

 

[Kev3188]

Clearly.

Or maybe, I've already covered what Josh was looking for, and know that he already knows where I stand. As do you.

Remind us, though: As at will employees, what "protections" do DL workers enjoy?

 

[WorldTraveler]

we've covered this too... but DL employees despite being "at will" fare better than their peers under CBAs.

Is it really not clear to you why DL employees have consistently voted not to vote in any more unions and why the DL/NW merger resulted in the largest reduction in the number of union members in the history of US aviation?

 

[Kev3188]

Not what was asked.

Again, remind us; What "protections" do at will employees at DL have?

 

[WorldTraveler]

you keep asking that question but can't seem to grasp that the written terms which you seem to think are so great are far surpassed by the provisions which DL provides and admittedly can revoke at any time.

Yet, DL employees aren't interested in legal documents which have handedly been rendered worthless.

Your bud 700 just acknowledged that the IAM has been unable to secure any gains for US rampers because of US' BKs.
So US employees have been shelling out hundreds of thousands of dollars in union dues to a union that can't do anything anyway.

DL employees have clearly decided they want nothing of the way unions work, esp. when it will become clear in mere weeks how deeply UA will cut its workforce using the very contract which UA's unions pushed on its membership.

 

[737823]

The potential implications of TA2? That's right, I don't. That also shouldn't be news to you.

Nor should my feelings about Delaney, LOAs that conflict with the will of the membership, sclerotic leadership structures in organized labor, and so on.

We've covered all of that ad nauseum over the last several weeks.

Implications correct, we don't yet know but its pretty likely AA/US, AS, WN, and perhaps others will make adjustments to staffing at outstations now that the UA agreement is industry standard. But what message does it send the newly organized sCO passenger service agents about the value of representation when they have such little protection? The No Way AFA (although the IAM drive is underway) page on Facebook had comments about the UA T/A and questioned the competence of IAM negotiators and value of representation. This kind of thing is great fuel for their fire.

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

NoWay is a viper pit of venal- and often ignorant- posters. Other than playing into your confirmation bias, how can you stand to be on there?

 

[737823]

NoWay is a viper pit of venal- and often ignorant- posters. Other than playing into your confirmation bias, how can you stand to be on there?

Great to see you attack and insult those with a different view point. I think it says a lot about the environment DL has fostered where they have employees willing to their personal time and out of pocket expenses for signs, flyers, etc to defeat union representation.

Meanwhile look at the latest garbage DL 142 produced for Commutair, and it took them five years to do so! Unreal. You would think with the prospects of bringing new dues payers onboard they would be interested in speedy negotiations. http://www.iamdl142.org/fa/Bulletins/2013/UCA_TA_Bulletin.pdf

Still care to answer the question I posed to you a few posts back?

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

It'd be nice if it was merely an unwarranted attack; it's not. It's an accurate assessment based on first hand experience.

 

[WorldTraveler]

and yet you keep posting how poorly treated you and a few others are.... yet the majority of DL employees don't believe the same thing or aren't willing to vote in a union as a solution.

Unions offer nothing better than what any other airlines offer their employees and in many cases a whole lot worse and less than what DL employees have.

The fact that the majority of DL employees do not agree with your assessment of the situation or your proposed solution speaks volumes about whose reality dominates.

 

[737823]

It'd be nice if it was merely an unwarranted attack; it's not. It's an accurate assessment based on first hand experience.

So you have personally met and interacted with every member of No Way and feel you can paint them all with the same brush? It's fine for you it disagree with their perspective but I expect better from you. Whenever sweeping generalizations are made about IAM or other union officials and supporters you are quick to condemn the post but seems the standards are different here.

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

and yet you keep posting how poorly treated you and a few others are.... yet the majority of DL employees don't believe the same thing or aren't willing to vote in a union as a solution.

Unions offer nothing better than what any other airlines offer their employees and in many cases a whole lot worse and less than what DL employees have.

The fact that the majority of DL employees do not agree with your assessment of the situation or your proposed solution speaks volumes about whose reality dominates.

Not related to what Josh & I are discussing.
 
 

So you have personally met and interacted with every member of No Way and feel you can paint them all with the same brush? It's fine for you it disagree with their perspective but I expect better from you. Whenever sweeping generalizations are made about IAM or other union officials and supporters you are quick to condemn the post but seems the standards are different here.

Josh

I shoulda known you'd try and turn this into a "thing."

have I met every one of them? Of course not. Have you met every pro worker person on IAMvotingIAM? How 'bout any of the pro union DL sites? Does it stop you from making "sweeping generalizations" about organized labor?

It's not a generalization, it's based on my experience. There are a lot of people on NoWay and (the now dead in the water) DP that are easily conditioned by corporate messaging, and it shows.Some are oblivious to the realities in this industry, and some are simply vicious. I expect better from all of them.

Know what else? Not one person EVER stood (or stands) up and tells them what they're doing is not okay.

You want to call that a broad brush, go right ahead.

 

[WorldTraveler]

then what is this?

You have repeatedly tried to argue here (including on this thread) and elsewhere that DL's treatment of its employees is the primary reason for why its employees need a union and you trotted it out here yet again.

It'd be nice if it was merely an unwarranted attack; it's not. It's an accurate assessment based on first hand experience.

The simple fact is that DL employees in the majority do not see things the way you do.

Your view of the world is thru scratched, gray colored goggles that doesn't match the reality for people at DL or for how UA employees chose to vote on their CBA, as much as I also agree that they made a mistake.